Cancellation Question

Old Jun 17, 17, 7:17 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scotland & PHX
Posts: 481
Cancellation Question

Hoping someone can give me some info.

My wife had a reservation to travel PHX-SFO-HND-SFO-PHX the transpacific section was on JAL and the positioning flights on AA all one ticket booked through a third party agency.

Unfortunately she had to cancel due to illness, the fare rules (JAL rules) clearly show a waiver for illness if verified with a medical certificate.

We are now getting the runaround from the agency they say the waiver only applies to the JAL flights and not the AA segments therefore no refund at all.

Is this correct?

Shouldn't all the flights be covered by the rules of the issuing carrier?

Any advice appreciated.
Norri is offline  
Old Jun 17, 17, 9:30 pm
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Diamond Metal Card (OWE) , SAS Eurobonus GOLD, (*G) Marriott Ambassador (LTP)
Posts: 10,847
Originally Posted by Norri View Post
Hoping someone can give me some info.

My wife had a reservation to travel PHX-SFO-HND-SFO-PHX the transpacific section was on JAL and the positioning flights on AA all one ticket booked through a third party agency.

Unfortunately she had to cancel due to illness, the fare rules (JAL rules) clearly show a waiver for illness if verified with a medical certificate.

We are now getting the runaround from the agency they say the waiver only applies to the JAL flights and not the AA segments therefore no refund at all.

Is this correct?

Shouldn't all the flights be covered by the rules of the issuing carrier?

Any advice appreciated.
Normally I would say yes the rules are the same for all legs, but you would need to look carefully at the ticket conditions for each leg as they could differ.
CPH-Flyer is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 4:26 am
  #3  
Ambassador: Japan Airlines
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: JAL Mileage Bank, oneworld Emerald, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 15,181
Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
Normally I would say yes the rules are the same for all legs, but you would need to look carefully at the ticket conditions for each leg as they could differ.
Also, agency has their own rules. So OP may still need to pay cancellation penalty charged by the agency.

Being on a single PNR doesn't mean it's booked under the same fare. So it's possible esp when the AA operated flights aren't JL coded.
JALPak is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 4:33 am
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Diamond Metal Card (OWE) , SAS Eurobonus GOLD, (*G) Marriott Ambassador (LTP)
Posts: 10,847
Originally Posted by JALPak View Post
Also, agency has their own rules. So OP may still need to pay cancellation penalty charged by the agency.

Being on a single PNR doesn't mean it's booked under the same fare. So it's possible esp when the AA operated flights aren't JL coded.
And one PNR does not mean one ticket. Our corporate TA have sometimes tagged work flights on to my private itinerary. Certainly not the same fare in those cases.

The devil is in the details....
CPH-Flyer is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 4:38 am
  #5  
Ambassador: Japan Airlines
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: JAL Mileage Bank, oneworld Emerald, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 15,181
Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
And one PNR does not mean one ticket. Our corporate TA have sometimes tagged work flights on to my private itinerary. Certainly not the same fare in those cases.

The devil is in the details....
And sometimes it's cheaper to book this way too
JALPak is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 5:47 am
  #6  
THR
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 496
No travel insurance?
THR is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 9:35 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Beantown! (BOS)
Programs: AA PtPro (2 MM); Hilton Diamond; Hertz President Cr; DL SkyMiles; UA MileagePlus
Posts: 2,428
Originally Posted by Norri View Post
Hoping someone can give me some info.

My wife had a reservation to travel PHX-SFO-HND-SFO-PHX the transpacific section was on JAL and the positioning flights on AA all one ticket booked through a third party agency.

Unfortunately she had to cancel due to illness, the fare rules (JAL rules) clearly show a waiver for illness if verified with a medical certificate.

We are now getting the runaround from the agency they say the waiver only applies to the JAL flights and not the AA segments therefore no refund at all.

Is this correct?

Shouldn't all the flights be covered by the rules of the issuing carrier?

Any advice appreciated.
Where did you read JAL non-refundable rule waiver for illness? Was it specifically written on the fare rule on the ticket purchased, or was it general statement from JAL website?

On ticket receipt you received, does it say SFO-HND segment as AA 8400 operated by Japan Airlines and HND-SFO segment as AA 8401 operated by Japan Airlines? If such is the case then ticket was American Airlines ticket and fare rules will be no different than American Airlines operated flights.

American Airlines has long ago eliminated waiver of non-refundable rule due to illness. I think the only written waiver condition for non-refundable rule on AA ticket today is death of a passenger, even death of family member does not qualify.

American Airlines has a rule where most restricted rule on one segment applies to entire trip itinerary. I am not sure JAL has same rule or not.

Also, which third party agency was the ticket purchased from? These days consolidator ticket for the U.S. airlines ticket purchased in the U.S. has become less common than used to be. However, for non-U.S. airlines consolidator tickets are still common, and for Japan Airlines I do think consolidator tickets can be purchased from H.I.S. and JTB in the U.S.

Consolidator ticket is pretty much airlines sell bulk of seats to a consolidator agency (travel agency) and the agency pretty much has freedom to set fare rules and restrictions as the agency wants, fare and tickets rules of an operating airlines do not apply.

If the itinerary was one ticket or two tickets can be easily determined by looking at a ticket receipt. Under ticket number, not six digit confirmation number but ten digit ticket number, if there is only one listed then it is one ticket, if there are two numbers listed then it is two ticket.

However, these days it is pretty much default that ticket is issued under one ticket. To be issued as two tickets usually involve manual intervention by ticket agent. Especially American Airlines has adopted the policy of not through checking bags on an itinerary under two separate tickets. If the itinerary was issued using two tickets then American Airlines at PHX would have checked baggage to SFO only, would not check to HND. Under that situation a passenger had to retrieve the baggage at Terminal 2 SFO upon arrival and take the baggage to International terminal and check the baggage with Japan Airlines check-in counter.
AlwaysAisle is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 12:46 pm
  #8  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scotland & PHX
Posts: 481
Thanks for the info.

It is one ticket with one eticket number.
Flight numbers were PHX-SFO AA 855 SFO-HND JAL1 HND-SFO JAL2 SFO-PHX AA 7540

There was only one set of rules attached to thew ticket, JAL Rules here is the exact wording.

TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW/
REFUND.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
WAIVED FOR ILLNESS/INJURY OF PASSENGER OR
ACCOMPANYING PASSENGER.
WAIVED FOR DEATH OF PASSENGER/ACCOMPANYING
PASSENGER OR IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER NOT
TRAVELING TOGETHER.
WAIVER FOR ILLNESS/INJURY OR DEATH MUST BE
SUBSTANTIATED BY A VALID MEDICAL OR DEATH
CERTIFICATE.

Ticket was from Cheapoair, sadly no insurance otherwise there wouldn't be an issue.
Norri is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 1:01 pm
  #9  
Ambassador: Japan Airlines
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: JAL Mileage Bank, oneworld Emerald, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 15,181
Originally Posted by Norri View Post
Thanks for the info.

It is one ticket with one eticket number.
Flight numbers were PHX-SFO AA 855 SFO-HND JAL1 HND-SFO JAL2 SFO-PHX AA 7540

There was only one set of rules attached to thew ticket, JAL Rules here is the exact wording.

TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW/
REFUND.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
WAIVED FOR ILLNESS/INJURY OF PASSENGER OR
ACCOMPANYING PASSENGER.
WAIVED FOR DEATH OF PASSENGER/ACCOMPANYING
PASSENGER OR IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER NOT
TRAVELING TOGETHER.
WAIVER FOR ILLNESS/INJURY OR DEATH MUST BE
SUBSTANTIATED BY A VALID MEDICAL OR DEATH
CERTIFICATE.

Ticket was from Cheapoair, sadly no insurance otherwise there wouldn't be an issue.
Is your ticket from 131 or 001 stock? You need the fare rules on the AA sectors not JL's.
JALPak is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 1:08 pm
  #10  
Ambassador: Japan Airlines
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: JAL Mileage Bank, oneworld Emerald, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 15,181
Also look for provisions like this

WHERE THIS FARE IS COMBINED WITH ANOTHER FARE
THE PENALTY CONDITIONS /EXCEPT PENALTY FEE/ OF
EACH FARE COMPONENT APPLIES.
WHEN ONLY ONE FARE COMPONENT IS CHANGED THE
PENALTY FEE OF THE CHANGED FARE COMPONENT APPLIES.
WHEN MORE THAN ONE FARE COMPONENT IS BEING CHANGED
THE HIGHEST PENALTY FEE OF ALL CHANGED FARE
COMPONENTS WITHIN THE JOURNEY APPLIES.
So if there are multiple fare components and JL doesn't charge for penalty but AA does, you will be charged for AA's penalty.
JALPak is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 1:46 pm
  #11  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scotland & PHX
Posts: 481
The ticket is on 131 stock, I don't have access to the AA fare rules now the JAL rules are the only ones that were attached to the booking confirmation.
Is there any way to see the AA fare rules now?
Norri is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 1:52 pm
  #12  
Ambassador: Japan Airlines
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: JAL Mileage Bank, oneworld Emerald, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 15,181
Originally Posted by Norri View Post
The ticket is on 131 stock, I don't have access to the AA fare rules now the JAL rules are the only ones that were attached to the booking confirmation.
Is there any way to see the AA fare rules now?
Login to JL website using your JL PNR to see if you can print out your e ticket. It should show the fare basis of individual flights. Your booking confirmation/agent's receipt may have that info as well.

If the fare basis are the same across all sectors, then it has the same fare rules. But once again, travel agent can impose their own penalty on top of JL/AA's
JALPak is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 2:34 pm
  #13  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scotland & PHX
Posts: 481
I can't retrieve any information from the airline websites now as the reservation was cancelled.
Perhaps I can contact AA and see if they will let me have the rules, if there is no waiver so be it, I just want to be sure.
I was advised to call AA by the agency after the cancellation, when I did they said they could do nothing as it was a JAL ticket.
Norri is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 3:58 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Beantown! (BOS)
Programs: AA PtPro (2 MM); Hilton Diamond; Hertz President Cr; DL SkyMiles; UA MileagePlus
Posts: 2,428
Originally Posted by Norri View Post
I was advised to call AA by the agency after the cancellation, when I did they said they could do nothing as it was a JAL ticket.
That is correct information. The ticket was issued by Japan Airlines and ticket was cancelled before the trip started. All refund matters will be dealt with by Japan Airlines, not American Airlines.

The U.S. JAL website states that:

"The most restrictive conditions apply to the whole itinerary when you purchase a ticket combining two separate fares on a half round trip basis."

Unfortunately, the information you have been receiving can be correct one. Highly likely that American Airlines portion, PHX-SFO, of the ticket has refund condition per American Airlines which illness is not the valid reason for waiver of non-refundable rule.

Japan Airlines seems to indicate that the most restrictive condition of waiver of non-refundable condition will be applied to SFO-HND portion of Japan Airlines segment, also.
AlwaysAisle is offline  
Old Jun 18, 17, 6:12 pm
  #15  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Diamond Metal Card (OWE) , SAS Eurobonus GOLD, (*G) Marriott Ambassador (LTP)
Posts: 10,847
Originally Posted by Norri View Post
Thanks for the info.

It is one ticket with one eticket number.
Flight numbers were PHX-SFO AA 855 SFO-HND JAL1 HND-SFO JAL2 SFO-PHX AA 7540

There was only one set of rules attached to thew ticket, JAL Rules here is the exact wording.

TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW/
REFUND.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
WAIVED FOR ILLNESS/INJURY OF PASSENGER OR
ACCOMPANYING PASSENGER.
WAIVED FOR DEATH OF PASSENGER/ACCOMPANYING
PASSENGER OR IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER NOT
TRAVELING TOGETHER.
WAIVER FOR ILLNESS/INJURY OR DEATH MUST BE
SUBSTANTIATED BY A VALID MEDICAL OR DEATH
CERTIFICATE.

Ticket was from Cheapoair, sadly no insurance otherwise there wouldn't be an issue.
I would guess that what cheapoair is using as an argument is my bolding above.
CPH-Flyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: