JAL Foreign Based Crews
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
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Posts: 20,885
The Hong Kong crews are of course not an issue with English, but I sometimes find the Bangkok crew easier to communicate with in Japanese than in English.
#17
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: KUL
Programs: Salaryman One World Sapphire
Posts: 233
Fair enough, totally forgetting about the crew operating cost, which I can assume will be quite big difference versus using Japanese base crew. My past experience with Thai (Thai Airways crew) is that I need to speak slower so that they can understand my English
#18
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 698
Just an interesting note - initially JL refused to employ any male CA's at their european bases. They only wanted female european crew. It wasn't until they were threatened with industrial tribunals that they began recruiting european males. We would usually be given galley positions on the aircraft though.
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 20,885
I was a LHR based Cabin Attendant for JL in the 90's. We did used to crew NRT-SYD as well as flights from LHR and a few other european cities to Japan. LHR based crew on the NRT-SYD flights ended in the mid 90's. I only did one - we used to have a floral uniform shirt we would wear on the SYD route for some reason. JL also had CA bases in AMS and FRA at the time.
Just an interesting note - initially JL refused to employ any male CA's at their european bases. They only wanted female european crew. It wasn't until they were threatened with industrial tribunals that they began recruiting european males. We would usually be given galley positions on the aircraft though.
Just an interesting note - initially JL refused to employ any male CA's at their european bases. They only wanted female european crew. It wasn't until they were threatened with industrial tribunals that they began recruiting european males. We would usually be given galley positions on the aircraft though.
I am guessing the floral shirt was part of the リソチャ concept.
JAL used to be very restrictive on male cabin crew in Japan, there is a thread on that topic somewhere in the forum as well.
#20
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: KUL
Programs: Salaryman One World Sapphire
Posts: 233
I was a LHR based Cabin Attendant for JL in the 90's. We did used to crew NRT-SYD as well as flights from LHR and a few other european cities to Japan. LHR based crew on the NRT-SYD flights ended in the mid 90's. I only did one - we used to have a floral uniform shirt we would wear on the SYD route for some reason. JL also had CA bases in AMS and FRA at the time.
Just an interesting note - initially JL refused to employ any male CA's at their european bases. They only wanted female european crew. It wasn't until they were threatened with industrial tribunals that they began recruiting european males. We would usually be given galley positions on the aircraft though.
Just an interesting note - initially JL refused to employ any male CA's at their european bases. They only wanted female european crew. It wasn't until they were threatened with industrial tribunals that they began recruiting european males. We would usually be given galley positions on the aircraft though.
#22
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SIN
Programs: JL GC | Marriott LT Silver | Global Entry | SQ Silver
Posts: 6,818
Mentioned this briefly in another thread, SIN crews are grounded (been about a year now), The SIN routes are staffed by Japan crew members.
Though at least they still have their basic pay to survive on.
Though at least they still have their basic pay to survive on.
#23
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: SFO/SJC/OAK
Programs: OZ Diamond (*G), KQ Asante Gold (ST+), Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,505
Had at least 1 UK-based flight attendant on LHR-HND earlier this month. I was a little shocked at first to hear the thick British accent during all the English language announcements, but never saw the FA so not sure if she spoke any Japanese as well or not. She was working the J cabin, everyone in F was Japanese.
#24
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Tokyo, Japan (or Vienna whenever possible)
Posts: 6,365
Flying JL or NH the period of time I am on board is a respite from the destination/origin that is not Japan. The service level, the manners, the sophistication, and the food The last thing I want is a non-Japanese FA. No thank you at all.
#25
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 698
Firstly, JAL has very high expectations of their cabin crews - Japanese or otherwise. This is why the initial Cabin Crew training for JAL takes three MONTHS verus three weeks for some airlines (although the average in the UK is around five weeks). Obviously when they recruit people they are also on the look out for certain kinds of behaviours that 'fit in' with the JAL culture. Training is completely Japan-centric.
Secondly, the main reason JAL had foreign based crews was because of the limited english most Japanese crew spoke. Although this has definitely changed in the last decade, most Japanese crew fifteen or so years ago spoke very, very small amounts of english. I flew JAL from Helsinki to Tokyo in December last year and the crew was entirely Japanese. And the crew member serving me had great english. So, things are changing there.
Thirdly, it's personal choice. I got a bit of a kick (in the best possible way) the first time I flew JAL to Sydney via Osaka around twenty years ago. The flight was ever so Japanese but it was also really interesting to see a couple british crew in the mix and from my experience, they fit in seamlessly in the business class cabin. Yet, they were also to offer to me what I like as a passenger from crew - banter. And banter is difficult with the Japanese crew. It really was the best of both worlds.
#26
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Tokyo, Japan (or Vienna whenever possible)
Posts: 6,365
I think things have changed over the years. And there are three factors to address here.
Firstly, JAL has very high expectations of their cabin crews - Japanese or otherwise. This is why the initial Cabin Crew training for JAL takes three MONTHS verus three weeks for some airlines (although the average in the UK is around five weeks). Obviously when they recruit people they are also on the look out for certain kinds of behaviours that 'fit in' with the JAL culture. Training is completely Japan-centric.
Secondly, the main reason JAL had foreign based crews was because of the limited english most Japanese crew spoke. Although this has definitely changed in the last decade, most Japanese crew fifteen or so years ago spoke very, very small amounts of english. I flew JAL from Helsinki to Tokyo in December last year and the crew was entirely Japanese. And the crew member serving me had great english. So, things are changing there.
Thirdly, it's personal choice. I got a bit of a kick (in the best possible way) the first time I flew JAL to Sydney via Osaka around twenty years ago. The flight was ever so Japanese but it was also really interesting to see a couple british crew in the mix and from my experience, they fit in seamlessly in the business class cabin. Yet, they were also to offer to me what I like as a passenger from crew - banter. And banter is difficult with the Japanese crew. It really was the best of both worlds.
Firstly, JAL has very high expectations of their cabin crews - Japanese or otherwise. This is why the initial Cabin Crew training for JAL takes three MONTHS verus three weeks for some airlines (although the average in the UK is around five weeks). Obviously when they recruit people they are also on the look out for certain kinds of behaviours that 'fit in' with the JAL culture. Training is completely Japan-centric.
Secondly, the main reason JAL had foreign based crews was because of the limited english most Japanese crew spoke. Although this has definitely changed in the last decade, most Japanese crew fifteen or so years ago spoke very, very small amounts of english. I flew JAL from Helsinki to Tokyo in December last year and the crew was entirely Japanese. And the crew member serving me had great english. So, things are changing there.
Thirdly, it's personal choice. I got a bit of a kick (in the best possible way) the first time I flew JAL to Sydney via Osaka around twenty years ago. The flight was ever so Japanese but it was also really interesting to see a couple british crew in the mix and from my experience, they fit in seamlessly in the business class cabin. Yet, they were also to offer to me what I like as a passenger from crew - banter. And banter is difficult with the Japanese crew. It really was the best of both worlds.
While an extended training period will allow skills to be developed, in my opinion the provision of service here (in Tokyo) is significantly (gross understatement) different than in many other countries, especially those in which I have spent extended periods, i.e. the US and the U.K. This difference is what we see onboard an NH or JL flight. It is what we are used to at any service establishment from SBUX to fine dining to department stores to medical clinics here. The goal, the way in which one derives pride in their job, is to make the customer feel good.
There is no sense of "me" or "I" during work hours although the service personnel are individuals. While they are at work, their sole role is to make others happy. This is exactly the opposite of what is found in the US or the U.K. in many instances. There one often encounters a service person talking about themselves or sharing their own opinion. This is the opposite of what we like here in Japan. The level of sophistication and dedication is so very different here. It makes it hard for me to fly with other carriers. The BA crew in F Cass are good, but far too chatty and familiar. Also, it is not a pan-Asian thing. I find the same level of uncomfortable familiarity on SQ and CX, both highly regarded by many. I will fly BA, SQ, or CX though if the schedule is a good fit as the rest of the product is quite nice. I also love OS but their route structure does not work so well for me. When it does though it is a great choice.
As a fluent speaker of Japanese (I only ever speak Japanese when flying JL or NH) I have found the level and amount of conversation I engage in with the staff onboard is perfect. Polished, sophisticated, appropriately deferential, and requiring if the same from me. More of a "Yes, please" environment than a "Yeah, sure" I guess is the best way to explain that.
One person's opinion, but this is how I feel about the difference in quality between Japanese FA and non-Japanese FA's even those working for the same airline.
#27
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 698
Absolutely, it appeals to a Japanese market and service culture. The japanese a fanatically loyal to their airlines just as the Singaporeans are to SQ.
However, airlines are global. If they want to bring in business from the US, Australia, europe, they need to have an alignment of service culture to these needs as well - although with a very 'on brand' twist.
It is the main reason why airlines like BA also have Japanese based crew on flights to Japan or Indian based crews on flights to India - they know the small intricases of the service from a cultural perspective and why whenever there is a 'service failure' with a Japanese or Indian passenger on a BA flight it will be a Japanese or Indian based crew member who will smooth things over.
I was super pleased to experience Japanese hospitality and cabin crew on my flight, but the small thing that I missed was provided by the UK based crew. It was just a perfect combination for me.
However, airlines are global. If they want to bring in business from the US, Australia, europe, they need to have an alignment of service culture to these needs as well - although with a very 'on brand' twist.
It is the main reason why airlines like BA also have Japanese based crew on flights to Japan or Indian based crews on flights to India - they know the small intricases of the service from a cultural perspective and why whenever there is a 'service failure' with a Japanese or Indian passenger on a BA flight it will be a Japanese or Indian based crew member who will smooth things over.
I was super pleased to experience Japanese hospitality and cabin crew on my flight, but the small thing that I missed was provided by the UK based crew. It was just a perfect combination for me.
#28
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Tokyo, Japan (or Vienna whenever possible)
Posts: 6,365
BA or UA having Japanese or Indian crew is largely to have someone to translate as the service contents are relatively fixed. Given that most Japanese crews have at least one fluent English speaker per cabin and often more there is little incentive to add foreign cultural concepts to those providing Japanese service. This is evident in the very low number of non-Japanese crew (i.e. not present on most flights) to Europe or Nth. America.
Last edited by mjm; Oct 16, 2022 at 7:02 am
#29
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: East Coast US
Programs: Hyatt: Diamond. Marriott: Platinum. AA: EXP 1MM. Delta: Silver. Etihad: Silver. Emirates Silver
Posts: 387
I have been flying JL for a few years now and have had little to complain out. While service may not be exemplary or memorable for me, it's competent, diligent and caring enough to make your flight pleasant and as trouble free as possible. A few things that do irk me is, and this is just me, that I find the food to be rather bland. Business Class menu has fair offerings but I find that dishes don't have much flavor and are also served just warm when hot is what should be what the dish should be served at (Western menu main course items), but nothing to do with cabin crew. My other issue, and this is par for the course for foreigners traveling to Japan, is their English is somewhere between basic and fluent, and this goes for both cabin crew and ground crew. If you have any issue that is beyond the parameters of the reasons why you may be engaging with the staff member, then it becomes a real struggle. I lost my earbud headphones in the lounge and trying to explain this and requesting if anyone had found them and turned them in was not exactly an easy process.
My expectation is that in today's day and age with increasing globalization and interconnected societies and economies, that JAL would at least place particular importance to English language speaking skills and make sure staff were as near fluent as one can be to manage and solve issues on their own.
I only came across one flight attendant on a JL flight, she was Japanese, who had a strong American accent and spoke impeccable English and was much more friendly and interactive compared to her peers. Turns out she spent a few years in California on a sports scholarship or something hence her language skills. I don't mind the lack of fluency as such but I just have to make sure I speak in a manner that will not confuse or lose them. Same goes for some of JAL's written material, lot's spelling and grammatical errors, but that is not unusual for a Japanese company which primarily works in Japanese. Other than that, crew are generally formal but relaxed and keep interactions with you to the necessary.
Finally, I saw my first male cabin attendant on a flight to JFK, was very pleasantly surprised, I thought the cabin crew for some reason was always all female.
My expectation is that in today's day and age with increasing globalization and interconnected societies and economies, that JAL would at least place particular importance to English language speaking skills and make sure staff were as near fluent as one can be to manage and solve issues on their own.
I only came across one flight attendant on a JL flight, she was Japanese, who had a strong American accent and spoke impeccable English and was much more friendly and interactive compared to her peers. Turns out she spent a few years in California on a sports scholarship or something hence her language skills. I don't mind the lack of fluency as such but I just have to make sure I speak in a manner that will not confuse or lose them. Same goes for some of JAL's written material, lot's spelling and grammatical errors, but that is not unusual for a Japanese company which primarily works in Japanese. Other than that, crew are generally formal but relaxed and keep interactions with you to the necessary.
Finally, I saw my first male cabin attendant on a flight to JFK, was very pleasantly surprised, I thought the cabin crew for some reason was always all female.
#30
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SAN, TYO, OSA
Posts: 252
My expectation is that in today's day and age with increasing globalization and interconnected societies and economies, that JAL would at least place particular importance to English language speaking skills and make sure staff were as near fluent as one can be to manage and solve issues on their own.
A bit of my story: I grew up in Japan and went through their English education through high school. I remember having to take an English course called oral communication B, which I now can say was a BS. The teacher had no speaking skill and just taught problem solving skills for college entrance exams. However, occasionally he would remember that the course was about oral communication and teach us how to pronounce some words. All I remember is that he repeatedly forced everyone to pronounce "map" as "myappu" . Maybe I was very unlucky, but I hope they teach better English these days.