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Originally Posted by iapetus
(Post 29285727)
...{snip}...But that's OK; I'm heading back in three weeks. :cool:
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In 15 years of visiting it has always been the taxis of Rome that I have found dishonest. Once I was shown the date as the fare, another time the switch from a 20 euro note to a 5 euro note. A slight of hand by the driver. A premium charged for entering the Vatican City, not even in the city yet. Refusal to use the meter so it was fixed price. Told that this is very far away and wanted 50 euro, when turned away I got a cab for 15 euro. Interestingly when the cab driver talks about being aware of thieves, I am most on guard. Another time thrown out of the cab because the driver spotted an airport fare (people with luggage). I could go on and I would say this relates to maybe less than 10 percent of cabs, but they are out there. An Uber like system would stop all of these abuses.
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Originally Posted by Dansa
(Post 29315987)
In 15 years of visiting it has always been the taxis of Rome that I have found dishonest. Once I was shown the date as the fare, another time the switch from a 20 euro note to a 5 euro note. A slight of hand by the driver. A premium charged for entering the Vatican City, not even in the city yet. Refusal to use the meter so it was fixed price. Told that this is very far away and wanted 50 euro, when turned away I got a cab for 15 euro. Interestingly when the cab driver talks about being aware of thieves, I am most on guard. Another time thrown out of the cab because the driver spotted an airport fare (people with luggage). I could go on and I would say this relates to maybe less than 10 percent of cabs, but they are out there. An Uber like system would stop all of these abuses.
Are you only taking official taxis? If so, I don't understand how all of those things could have happened to you. There are plenty of "drivers" will hit on you as soon as you exit Termini, or go landslide at FCO. They will definitely cheat you because they are people posing as taxi drivers, not real taxis.. Official taxis are white, they have a taxi sign on the roof, the phone number of the company on the door, a logo saying SPQR, it will say Comune di Roma on the outside door, the license of the driver will be prominently displayed inside the car on the left door, and there will always be a meter. They will only pick you up at official taxi stands, or at least that's true 98% of the time, with the only exception being during the middle of the night if you happen to see one (rare). They don't run the meter when taking someone from FCO to downtown Rome because it's a flat 48 euro rate. The only exception is if you are going outside of the Aurelian Walls such as to the Vatican, which is what you describe. The fixed rate only applies to Roman taxis. Taxis at FCO are sometimes registered in the city of Fiumicino and do not have Comune di Roma displayed on the door. The fixed rate of 48 euros does not apply to them, and it will cost you about 60 euros. That's not a surcharge, it's just something to be aware of. If you are going to Rome, take a Roman taxi. There are all sorts of legitimate surcharges. For example, there is a 2 euro surcharge when taking a taxi from Termini, surcharges for nights, time of day, weekends, amount of luggage, and other things (although women get a discount after 10PM, and there is often a discount for young people coming out of clubs on Friday and Saturday night) that are legitimate. If you call a taxi there is a 3.5 surcharge for the call and they start the meter when you call them so it is already running when they arrive. I've never met anyone who was fooled by the sleight of hand thing you describe, where they tell you you gave them a smaller bill. I have a feeling it might be related to most tourists not being familiar with the currency, and also, it's super easy to avoid. Do what I do in NYC or just about anywhere else is count out the money or say, "here is a fifty," in english if you don't speak Italian. That's a basic rule when handing over large bills even if you are just ordering a cup of coffee, both in the USA and in Europe. Small shops in the ISA do this more frequently than taxi driers, but the don't use sleight of hand, they just try to short change you. I would say that things such as you describe occur maybe 1% of the time, just as they do anywhere else, and 99% of Roman taxi drivers are honest. There is also an app called MyTaxi that works something like Uber. It will summon the nearest official Rome taxi, give you the estimated cost, show the driver making progress coming to you, and one you download it link to your credit card or PayPal, you pay on the app. Uber is in a heap of trouble in Europe. They skirt the rules (eg, vehicle inspections, registration of the vehicle, insurance, background check of drivers, the driver must have a professional drivers license, etc.) by claiming that they are an app, not a transportation company. The EU recently decided in a non-appealable decision that Uber is a transportation company and EU-wide rules apply to them. Rome had already independently made this decision, which is why Uber is more expensive than a taxi Rome, because drivers now have to pay more out of pocket expenses to follow the rules that govern public transportation. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/20/b...urope-ecj.html |
Thanks for the generous reply.
In the last 15 years I have spent upon average three nights each year in Rome starting in 2002. I am not speaking of a run around, where meter is run up. In the examples I have written about all were clearly fraudulent behavior. In the case of the switched bill, I agree, a moment of inattention. My bad. But really a surcharge for a drop off outside the Vatican, being charged the date? I have spoken with other taxi drivers about these rip offs and they admit there are some crooked drivers. I mentioned an uber like arrangement. My smart phone would pay the bill and the route would be shown along with any other extra charges. I could care less if it was uber. The taxi companies can set up such an app as they do here in Atlanta. The app you described does not interact with the taxi, just an order and a estimated fee. slight of hand is quite common in other cities and I was positive of the bills in my pocket. You give a bill to the driver and then he shows you a different bill, usually a five. I have always used taxis from the taxi stands. Never a rougue. I speak enough Italian to navigate a taxi ride. I travel extensively, mostly in North America but also a month or so a year on the continent. I am an experienced traveler, but these dishonest drivers are that good. In the end, it is only a small percentage of taxis. In the end, a few euros will not ruin my holiday. I friend once described it as “if they do not steal from you they will have to steal from each other” Thanks again for the response Perche along with the many other posts I have enjoyed and learned from. |
We enjoy traveling in Italy and always start or finish our trip here. The only time I had problems with pick pockets was at the train station going to Ostia. Three different people tried to remove my wallet with one actually having her hand in my back pocket. She pretended having a baby which was actually a doll. People on the train yelled out that another person was a pick pocket. I wanted to use an elbow to their face but didn't want to end up in jail. Either carry your money in a concealed money belt or in the front pocket of a tight pair of jeans. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Hi, when I visited Rome I noticed pick pockets are a big problem, at Fontana di Trevi and Colisseo. Near Fontana di Trevi one man tried to remove my dad's wallet. I think problems are everywhere though, unfortunately that's one of the risks of going out, I think we just need to be careful.
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Thanks for the tip of just saying...."here's a 50". Something so simple to do in Italy or anywhere to save you being scammed.
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I have a house in Abruzzo and pass through Rome times a year. My very cautious Italian friend had his backpack cut open and wallet nicked on the metro just last year. Glad to say I have not had this experience myself. Kind of hard to prove but on a 1/2 dozen or so occasions I have Rome barista's attempt to pull one over on me. The scam arises when you buy a coffee and/or sandwich or such and give the barista a 20 euro note. The barista reaches into the cash register and pulls out change as if you had given him/her 10 euros. After giving you change for 10 euros the barista will initiate some other activity at the bar while watching you out of the corner of their eye. If you remain at the bar the barista will return to the register, grab a 10 euro note and hand it to you. BUT....should you walk away from the bar the barista will quickly pocket the 10 euro note for his/her self. This to me is a rather clever maneuver and one which I would think is relatively low risk for the barista. Since this has happened to me almost exclusively in Rome I am convinced that this "furto" is probably taught in the course "Tourist Scams 101" at the local barista training school.
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As you first have to have paid at the cashier and get the scontrino when ordering a coffee in almost all Italian (including Roman) bars, I wonder what kind of bars you frequent and which neighbourhood of Rome you spend your time at. By the way, a barista handling both payments and making of the coffee is as rare as snowfall in Rome: s..t happens, but...
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Originally Posted by stefanaccio
(Post 29917508)
I have a house in Abruzzo and pass through Rome times a year. My very cautious Italian friend had his backpack cut open and wallet nicked on the metro just last year. Glad to say I have not had this experience myself. Kind of hard to prove but on a 1/2 dozen or so occasions I have Rome barista's attempt to pull one over on me. The scam arises when you buy a coffee and/or sandwich or such and give the barista a 20 euro note. The barista reaches into the cash register and pulls out change as if you had given him/her 10 euros. After giving you change for 10 euros the barista will initiate some other activity at the bar while watching you out of the corner of their eye. If you remain at the bar the barista will return to the register, grab a 10 euro note and hand it to you. BUT....should you walk away from the bar the barista will quickly pocket the 10 euro note for his/her self. This to me is a rather clever maneuver and one which I would think is relatively low risk for the barista. Since this has happened to me almost exclusively in Rome I am convinced that this "furto" is probably taught in the course "Tourist Scams 101" at the local barista training school.
Rome is a placid country town compared to Baltimore, Orlando, Detroit, Philadelphia, New Orleans, Washington DC, Orlando, Phoenix, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, Milwaukee, Las Vegas, Rochester, or just about anywhere in the USA. It has about the same crime rate as Regina, or Winnipeg, Canada. Back pack slashing are myths. Of course there is petty crime and you can get your purse snatched, wallet pickpocketed, but it's more likely to happen to you where you came from, than in Rome. Being careless with your passport and other things can invite crime, but back pack slashing and such things are myths. Anything can happen anywhere, sometime. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, so yes, crime can happen. But painting Rome like this is false. And bartenders selling you coffee and ripping you off is another myth. Not giving you all of your change back and hesitating for a few seconds to see if you realize it happens frequently all over the USA, and around the world. Short-changing is an old carnival trick. It's hard to be a victim of such a crime unless you don't count your change. Counting your change becomes a habit when you are young, like memorizing your zip code or phone number, unless you like being scammed. It's not a Roman problem. I agree with KLouis. In Rome and most other cities in Italy (curiously, not in Venice), money is considered too dirty for people who prepare food or beverages to touch. In the USA you pay after you drink your coffee. In Rome you pay before you get your coffee, except in small, non-busy places. When you go inside of a coffee shop you go to a booth and pay there . They give you a receipt, you take it to the bar, and you show it to the person who is going to make the coffee. They usually rip it so that you can't use the same receipt twice. Roman baristas are not taught Tourist Scamming 101. There is a coffee culture in Italy, especially in Rome, and they are hubs of conviviality. The fact is, on average if you are in Rome or almost anywhere in Italy, you are safer than you were when you were at home unless you do careless things like carry your cell phone in the back pocket of your jeans, and do things like that. The crime rate in Rome is far below the USA national average. Italy is the 35th safest country in the world, just a little behind Japan, whereas the USA is 55th, slightly less safe than Equatorial Guinea, and just slightly safer than Cambodia. |
Anyone familiar with local information, taking time to regularly post guidance on this board is indeed doing a good deed and most of us are grateful for that.
However, over zealous defense can unintentionally give someone false sense of security when they should be really on their guard. Rome has had this pickpocket paradise reputation for decades (along with barcelona). Expansion of EU, illegal immigration, etc are the usual explanation (which may or may not be true) If one searches other travel blogs such as Crusie Critic or Rick Steves or TA, pickpocket attempt cases in Rome are not that uncommon. Sure, pickpocket can happen in any crowded touristy place in any city in the world. But, probability seems to be slightly higher in Italian cities than in some other European countries. Being "safe" city is a relative term. Sure, gun violence may not be there. Probability of getting mugged may be less than that in certain parts of many US cities. But pickpocket attempt probability seems to be significantly higher here in Rome compared to say New York. Also, it is one thing for a resident (or a frequent visitor) to lose a wallet. It is total nightmare for a first time tourist on a tight schedule. "I jay-walked on 5th avenue and didnt get hit by car" argument does not make advice for waiting for green signal unwise. Both pickpocketing and taxi scamming in big Italian cities are real irritants especially for a tourist. Experienced both first hand couple of weeks ago. Felt hand inside right pocket that had to be slapped away. Taxi scamming (that I could recognize) was in 3 cases out of roughly 10. a) Turning off meter in middle of the ride b) insisting on 50 euro fixed price from vatican to pantheon (day time) c) 9 euro outbound but 20+ euro on return (both times no traffic and in day time) for a 1.2 mile ride. So either you are very lucky or people who get victimized are unusually unlucky or a problem DOES exist. Crime safety statistics and pickpocket probability are not always well-correlated. Italy may very well be the 35th safest country in the world by the standards and criteria employed by the organization doing that particular ranking. But the pickpocket probability for an average american tourist seems to be significantly higher in Italy then say in Japan and it will be foolhardy not to take extra precautions. (more than what one takes in New York or Tokyo) In three Italian cities, at the time of checking in at the hotel advice was along the line of "Hotel is in very safe area even at late night. Just that the the city is full of pickpockets especially in crowded touristy places and in buses - dont carry anything more than what you actually must have for your outing". Doubt you will hear that advice unsolicited in Tokyo or even New York (but might in Barcelona) even though that is sound advice anywhere in the world. If problem is not real and tourists are just being over cautious then the cost is only the anxiety of being over cautious. If problem is real but based on advice on this thread one get into false sense of security ("just be careful as one would in any city. Italy does not have problem any more than anywhere else in the world", then potential cost is huge when pickpocket does happen. For an American tourist on a 3-day visit which has higher probability: a) Getting Ebola by simply visiting an urban city in West Africa b) Getting Zika by visiting Sau Paulo in Brazil c) Getting malaria form mosquito bite in Thailand d) Pickpocket attempt in Rome/Venice |
These didn't happen in Italy but it pays to always be aware of your surroundings. I had a camera stolen out of a coat pocket as I was entering the hotel I was staying at. I remember someone passing between me and my friends in back of me. That was all it took.
Another time, I think foiled an attempt. The hotel my group was staying at had a rental bike concession at the side of the hotel. I see 2 or 3 young women returning bikes. As I approach my hotel's revolving door, I see the same 3 young people moving suspiciously close behind 3 friends on the group, who're about to enter the revolving door.. I interposed myself between my friends and the 3 women, who moved off. |
Originally Posted by desi
(Post 29996923)
A
For an American tourist on a 3-day visit which has higher probability: a) Getting Ebola by simply visiting an urban city in West Africa b) Getting Zika by visiting Sau Paulo in Brazil c) Getting malaria form mosquito bite in Thailand d) Pickpocket attempt in Rome/Venice The only place I recall being victimized was NYC, when my buddy and I stupidly left small overnight bags in the trunk of his Miata parked across from NYU law. This was pre-Giuliani and the trunk was emptied by morning. Since that time I have never left anything of value in any car in any major city. |
Originally Posted by desi
(Post 29996923)
Anyone familiar with local information, taking time to regularly post guidance on this board is indeed doing a good deed and most of us are grateful for that.
However, over zealous defense can unintentionally give someone false sense of security when they should be really on their guard. Rome has had this pickpocket paradise reputation for decades (along with barcelona). Expansion of EU, illegal immigration, etc are the usual explanation (which may or may not be true) If one searches other travel blogs such as Crusie Critic or Rick Steves or TA, pickpocket attempt cases in Rome are not that uncommon. Sure, pickpocket can happen in any crowded touristy place in any city in the world. But, probability seems to be slightly higher in Italian cities than in some other European countries. Being "safe" city is a relative term. Sure, gun violence may not be there. Probability of getting mugged may be less than that in certain parts of many US cities. But pickpocket attempt probability seems to be significantly higher here in Rome compared to say New York. Also, it is one thing for a resident (or a frequent visitor) to lose a wallet. It is total nightmare for a first time tourist on a tight schedule. "I jay-walked on 5th avenue and didnt get hit by car" argument does not make advice for waiting for green signal unwise. Both pickpocketing and taxi scamming in big Italian cities are real irritants especially for a tourist. Experienced both first hand couple of weeks ago. Felt hand inside right pocket that had to be slapped away. Taxi scamming (that I could recognize) was in 3 cases out of roughly 10. a) Turning off meter in middle of the ride b) insisting on 50 euro fixed price from vatican to pantheon (day time) c) 9 euro outbound but 20+ euro on return (both times no traffic and in day time) for a 1.2 mile ride. So either you are very lucky or people who get victimized are unusually unlucky or a problem DOES exist. Crime safety statistics and pickpocket probability are not always well-correlated. Italy may very well be the 35th safest country in the world by the standards and criteria employed by the organization doing that particular ranking. But the pickpocket probability for an average american tourist seems to be significantly higher in Italy then say in Japan and it will be foolhardy not to take extra precautions. (more than what one takes in New York or Tokyo) In three Italian cities, at the time of checking in at the hotel advice was along the line of "Hotel is in very safe area even at late night. Just that the the city is full of pickpockets especially in crowded touristy places and in buses - dont carry anything more than what you actually must have for your outing". Doubt you will hear that advice unsolicited in Tokyo or even New York (but might in Barcelona) even though that is sound advice anywhere in the world. If problem is not real and tourists are just being over cautious then the cost is only the anxiety of being over cautious. If problem is real but based on advice on this thread one get into false sense of security ("just be careful as one would in any city. Italy does not have problem any more than anywhere else in the world", then potential cost is huge when pickpocket does happen. For an American tourist on a 3-day visit which has higher probability: a) Getting Ebola by simply visiting an urban city in West Africa b) Getting Zika by visiting Sau Paulo in Brazil c) Getting malaria form mosquito bite in Thailand d) Pickpocket attempt in Rome/Venice Pickpocketing, on the other hand is 99% preventable. I've been in Venice and in Rome for the last few weeks, and have lived in both cities for years. The thought of getting pickpocketed has never entered my mind. Why? Because I don't want to get pickpocketed, so I take the easy steps to make it impossible to happen. Nobody gets close enough to me to be able to take my wallet. Every day I walk by the Forum to get to where I'm headed. Every day I'm approached. No one gets within arms reach of me. Not the fake gladiators, the young ladies who want to hand me a flower, or anybody else. Sometimes it's just body language. Sometimes it's a stiff arm. Occasionally it's an elbow. If I'm on a crowded train and I can't avoid close contact, then my hand is in my front pocket containing my phone and wallet. Nobody is going to pickpocket me. It's that simple. For many months I had to take the bus that goes from Termini to Vatican. Almost every time I was on the bus I would see someone about to be pickpocketed, and would yell out to them, "hey, pay attention!" It got to the point where the pickpocketers recognized me, and vice versa, and started getting made at me. In every single case I've ever seen, the target appeared clueless, was a pickpocketing magnet, and was almost offering up their wallet, whether it be from a pocket or a purse. I don't want it to sound like I'm blaming the victim, but yes, pickpocketing is an opportunistic crime. I don't give anyone the opportunity. I don't know how you let someone get their hand into your pocket. I lost my wallet once in Italy. I knew I hadn't been pickpocketed, I just lost it. I called the police They said someone had turned it in. The police station was at least a mile away from anywhere I'd been, but I let it drop from my pocket when I pulled out my phone. Someone found it, and walked a mile to the police station and turned it in intact, with a few hundred euros, a credit card, and ATM card. I am an Italian citizen, but it's not that. If you get your haircuts and clothes in the USA, which I mostly do, you cannot pass for Italian, you will be seen as a tourist, including me. I don't understand the problem with taxis either, although there is a mini-rebellion going on with the taxis at Ciampino. Taxi driver turning off the meter? That only happen100 ed to me once. In San Francisco. I've probably taken a taxi 10 times in SF. I've probably taken a taxi 100 times in Rome. There is no such thing as a fixed price in a taxi, except to and from the airport. Occasionally, one hears of a foreign traveler being charge a few hundred dollars to get from the airport to downtown Manhattan. Rome is a maze of streets, one way usually, and it's hard to drive around. It can cost more for outbound or inbound than for return, because it is rarely a straight shot. You might have to drive 3 miles to get to a place a mile away, and drive 2 miles to get back. Do you really want to make somebody happy? Tip a Roman taxi driver. I tipped mine 2 euros this morning. The guy practically kissed my hand, but settled for a nice handshake. There is no tipping in Italy, especially for taxi drivers, so when you tip them, it makes them delirious. I've had to stay in 4 hotels in the last few weeks, because my apartment was insufferable in the heat. It's really hot here. Venice, Rome, Orvieto, then back to Rome. No hotelier has ever, in my many years of travel, has ever warned me about pickpocketers. One thing I have seen is pickpocketers putting up signs near ATM machines and next to machines where you buy a train ticket. The signs say, pickpocketing is frequent here, beware of pickpocketers. Why would pickpocketers put up signs waning about pickpocketing? Because most tourists, as soon as they see the sign, put there hand on their wallet to make sure it's still there. One of the most difficult steps in pickpocketing is guessing where the wallet is. Every tourist who sees the signs touches their wallet, and does the pickpocketers job for them. NYC is a safe city, safer even then Rome. But I know neighborhoods in all five boroughs where you are likely to be relieved of your wallet, always by force. Likely means about a 1-2% chance is my guess. Paris, which is also pretty safe, has banluis (sp?) or districts where you are likely to be relieved of your possessions. Rome does too. The neighborhoods are the Colosseum, the Forum, the Pantheon, the Spanish Steps, Fountain of Trevi. So all you have to do when you go to those places is make sure they don't take your wallet. Actually, the Pantheon and Fountain of Trevi, are pretty heavily policed, so I don't think you would get pickpocketed there, but it could happen. In Venice, there is practically no crime except at the train station and Piazza San Marco, and late at night around Campo Santa Margherita. There has been a disturbing increase in muggings around Santa Margherita and around the Rialto Bridge, but they happen very late at night, like 1 AM. Just don't walk around clueless, with a giant backpack with an unsecured zipper, and your wallet in the back pack, on a crowded train or bus. I have no idea why tourists would lug around a back pack unless they have a baby and need to bring diapers and milk, but it's stunning how so many tourists are lugging around a backpack in the Roman heat where it's close to 100 F, or 31 C. There are many tips and solutions in this thread to help someone avoid being a victim. I walk by pickpocket central pretty much every day, and it never enters my mind that I would be pickpocketed. It's a target rich environment, and nobody gets close enough to me to put their hand into my pocket. Still, the chance of the average tourist who is taking practically no precautions being pickpocketed has to be way less than 1%. By far, if you want to have something stolen from you, go to Milan. There are a lot of misconceptions about Italy, such as Fiumicino (Leonardo da Vinci) airport being a chaotic nightmare. It's actually an extremely efficient airport that puts most airports in the USA to shame. Taxi drivers are not there to rip you off, they are honest, although like everywhere, there is the occasional thief. That the South is dangerous and full of crime, when after Milan I think the city with the most theft is Florence. Rome, like Venice, doesn't even rank. In sum, if you don't want to be a victim of a pickpocketer, take the simple steps to make it virtually impossible to happen. One more thing and I don’t mean this in a disparaging way. It’s common knowledge that if you are Asian, pickpocketing groups target you disproportionally. But by taking simple practical steps and recognizing that losing your wallet and even passport can wreck your vacation, just make the very easy decision to not let it happen. How to do so is in this thread. |
Agree. You can certainly take precautionary steps to NOT get pickpocketted. (or at least mitigate risks significantly)
This thread has been indeed useful about how to be alert. Even knowing that pickpocket CAN happen is somtomes news to many American tourists who have never been exposed to situation where pickpocketing happens. Also for local resident or frequent visitor, hassle factor of pickpocket is significantly less than that for first time visitor on very tight time schedule. 99.999% of visitors to Delhi dont get dengue/malaria/chikunmungia. But first time visitors do get warned about it. And that is consdered good helpful advice. Probability of first time American tourist getting pickpocketted in Italy is significantly higher. Guess, we all are saying same thing but using different emphasis. Between two messages: "Rome is as safe as NYC/SanDiego" vs "Pickpocket in Italy is a known issue but risks can be greatlly mitigated by taking precautions mentioned on this thread and elsewhere" which is more useful to first time American visitor to Italy? (even if both messages are correct) |
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