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Italy logistics/accomodation with a 4-year old and luggage

Italy logistics/accomodation with a 4-year old and luggage

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Old Feb 10, 19, 11:54 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Even without a kid to distract, Rome and Florence and Venice have notorious pickpockets at the train stations but also elsewhere.

In Italy and elsewhere, thieves have made off with US Secret Service protectees' personal belongings even as the thefts were being done in the presence of the US Secret Service personal security detail assigned to the protectees.
As does every other major city in the world which has a train station, museum, park, tourist area, etc. Common sense prevails everywhere one travels.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 12:12 am
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I wouldn't say pickpocketing is a major concern in Rome, Florence, or Venice. Yeah it happens, but probably not much more than it would in any touristy area here in the US. For unfamiliar tourists in Italy, I'd say my primary concerns are recognizing a scam and fending off the street vendors. Gotta know whether the lady harassing you for money is really just part of a roma scammer gang, or even when you're getting overcharged in a business. Shaking the dudes trying to sell you selfie sticks, umbrellas, rubber band helicoptors, etc. is a skill that directly improves the enjoyability of a place.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 2:20 am
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Originally Posted by obscure2k View Post
As does every other major city in the world which has a train station, museum, park, tourist area, etc. Common sense prevails everywhere one travels.
Some countries and cities have way more of an issue with pickpocket thieves of sorts than some other countries and cities, and the skill-sets of the thieves aren't equal everywhere. The pickpocket operators in say Rome and Buenos Aires are legendary for a reason, while they really aren't so much in say Singapore or Muscat or even Washington, DC.

And common sense doesn't necessarily prevail all that well over thieves everywhere one travels -- which is why I brought up thefts that have hit USSS protectees, since the USSS isn't widely known for lacking common sense.

But are tourists with young children really more intensely targeted by pickpockets in Rome or Florence than tourists without such young children in such cities? I wouldn't be so sure about that, but I also wouldn't be surprised if was part of the MO for some thieves.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 2:32 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Even without a kid to distract, Rome and Florence and Venice have notorious pickpockets at the train stations but also elsewhere.

In Italy and elsewhere, thieves have made off with US Secret Service protectees' personal belongings even as the thefts were being done in the presence of the US Secret Service personal security detail assigned to the protectees.
Not correct. You are far more likely to get pickpocketed in a major city in the USA than in Italy. Contributing to the spike were at least two "professional pickpocket teams" from foreign countries who move from city to city stealing from straphangers, Delatorre said.

"They pick as many pockets as they can over the course of a week or two and then they go to another city," Delatorre said. "So these people that we arrested actually had no criminal history in New York State."

Cops apprehended a pair of teams from Colombia and Chile, the chief said.Subway thieves often take items such as cellphones, wallets, credit cards, cash and expensive headphones, Delatorre said. Police have also had to contend with "homegrown" serial robbers who "work the system constantly," the chief said. He ticked off the names of three alleged thieves who have been arrested for grand larceny multiple times within the transit system."

Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/articles/serial-...ay-11546704000

And;"Warnings and Dangers in New York City Pickpockets
Pickpockets TipsKnown for its skyscrapers, Broadway plays, financial centers and cultural activities, New York City has a great deal to offer. However, one significant danger is that the city is populated with pickpockets.Avoid Keeping Your Wallet in a Back Pocket

While walking in New York City, it is safer to keep your wallet in your front pocket. Pickpockets walking behind you regard your back pocket as a personal invitation to thievery.Spread Out Your Cash and Credit Cards in Different Locations

Avoid storing your cash and credit cards in one place. Instead of placing these items in your wallet, put some of the cash in your purse and a few credit cards in your luggage. If someone does manage to pick your pockets, the thief will not gain access to all your valuables.

And:
"Is NYC safe? The answer is a qualified yes! Considering 8,175,133 residents share 320 sq miles, NYC’s crime rate is impressively low. According to FBI data, NYC is the safest big city in the U.S., ranking above San Jose and San Diego, California. Violent crime is relatively rare in NYC (most crimes occur in economically-depressed areas of northern Manhattan or the boroughs. In many cases, the victim knew the perpetrator, or drugs were a factor). Crimes against tourists are rare, and are usually theft (grab and run) or pick pocketing."

Well, Rome is much safer than NYC, including when it comes to pickpocketing. When I am not in Rome or Venice, I live in San Francisco. SF had 53 homicides last year. Rome had 3. Rome is six times larger than SF.

Do you want to be pickpocketed American style? This week a guy I think in Nashville was getting out of his car when 3 teens demanded his wallet at gunpoint, and he gave it to him. They then demanded the keys to his car. He refused, so they shot him down. He made it inside of his house, where his roommate came home an hour later and found him dead. I'd rather be pickpocketed Roman style than USA style, which is at the point of a gun, and is done at a much higher rate.

NYC, one of the safest cities in America, had its lowest murder rate in 70 years in 2018, with only 289 murders among its 8.3 million residents. The entire country of Italy had 563 murders in its population of 60.6 million.

In Italy, it's called pickpocketing when they take a cell phone or wallet from a tourist who has those things halfway hanging out of their back pocket, or in a wide open purse in crowded place. Pickpocketing is virtually 100% preventable with some common sense; just don't put your stuff where someone can steal them. In Italy when someone steals your wallet it's called pickpocketing. In the USA it's usually called armed robbery, because they use a gun or a knife. You can easily prevent being pickpocketed, whereas it's hard to to fight off a guy who wants your wallet who is pointing a gun at you.

This stereotyping of Italy being a dangerous place and a den of thieves is so outmoded and contrary to all facts. You are more likely to lose your wallet at gunpoint in Baltimore than lose it to a pickpocket in Venice.

Whether you live in Sarasota, Florida, or in NYC, when you go to Italy you are going to be safer, and less likely to have something taken from you. Your biggest danger of losing your wallet is when you go back home to the USA, unless of course, you go to Italy, Barcelona, San Francisco, LA, Philadelphia, and are careless about your stuff.

"In Italy and elsewhere, thieves have made off with US Secret Service protectee's personal belongings even as the thefts were being done in the presence of the US Secret Service personal security detail assigned to the protectees." In NYC just this week two prostitutes made off with an officers gun while offering him, "service."

Officers assigned to guard Congress who work in the Senate and House of Representatives forget and leave their guns in the bathrooms frequently, and of course, this is past security screening.

Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell left his gun in the toilet seat dispenser of those circular things you can put on the toilet bowl in a bathroom in the Senate building recently. A tourist who works for CVC found the gun. A 7 year old child found the loaded gun of then Majority Leader Bohner in the Senate, post-security public bathroom. It was a loaded Glock with a bullet in the chamber left by a member of his protection team. A Glock was found by the janitor cleaning the Capitol Police headquarters, assigned to protect one of the world's most important and visited government complexes. He didn't lose it in a toilet booth. He lost it in plain sight.

Guns have a safety you have to click off in order to fire. A Glock does not. If the 7 year old thought it was a toy and fired, the gun would have gone off.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol...eft-in-toilet/

A secret service agent assigned specifically to protect President Obama had his gun stolen from his car because he left it in plain sight. After the Secret Service Prostitution scandal in Columbia when they went there to prep for Obama's visit and the prostitutes they frequented stole their guns, the Secret Service increased the severity of the penalty for losing their gun from 8 days suspension to 14 days.

This constant portrayal of Italy as some sort of out of control mafia ridden, pickpocketing place is so off base. If you don't want to get pickpocketed, just put your stuff where it can't be pickpocketed. It's almost 100% preventable because they seek out the vulnerable appearing victim with their phone sticking out of their back pocket. In the USA, taking you wallet is not done subtly, it's done by gun or knife point, or a gang beating.

I disagree with this. OP should just read about how to not make himself a victim, and he will not become one, until he gets back to the USA.

Last edited by Perche; Feb 11, 19 at 3:01 am
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Old Feb 11, 19, 2:39 am
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In Rome and Buenos Aires, it's way more than just tourists who are the targets of pickpockets. Lots of locals get hit too.

Originally Posted by Perche View Post
Not correct. You are far more likely to get pickpocketed in a major city in the USA than in Italy.
In Italy and elsewhere, thieves have made off with US Secret Service protectees' personal belongings even as the thefts were being done in the presence of the US Secret Service personal security detail assigned to the protectees. Those are just facts.

Getting pick-pocketed in Rome or Florence is not less likely than to get pickpocketed in Washington, DC, or Salt Lake City. There are reasons that thieving patterns in major US cities are different than thieving patterns in major Italian cities, and you even indicate such by bringing up armed robbery using guns in the US. But the issue is about pickpockets using sleight of hand rather than weapons.

That pickpocketing in major Italian cities is a more common problem than in major US cities does not mean Italy is more dangerous than the US. The US has far more serious crime problems than Italy, as crime patterns and risks related to such are not the same in major US cities as in major Italian cities. There are multiple reasons for the differences, but when it comes to pickpockets, some cities in Italy have dens of such thieves in a way that say Washington, DC, and SLC do not. But pickpocketing problems are definitely not unique to Italy. And there are far greater dangers than pickpocketing, even as those dangers tend to be greater in the US than in Italy.

Last edited by GUWonder; Feb 11, 19 at 2:52 am
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Old Feb 11, 19, 3:15 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
In Rome and Buenos Aires, it's way more than just tourists who are the targets of pickpockets. Lots of locals get hit too.



In Italy and elsewhere, thieves have made off with US Secret Service protectees' personal belongings even as the thefts were being done in the presence of the US Secret Service personal security detail assigned to the protectees. Those are just facts.

Getting pick-pocketed in Rome or Florence is not less likely than to get pickpocketed in Washington, DC, or Salt Lake City. There are reasons that thieving patterns in major US cities are different than thieving patterns in major Italian cities, and you even indicate such by bringing up armed robbery using guns in the US. But the issue is about pickpockets using sleight of hand rather than weapons.

That pickpocketing in major Italian cities is a more common problem than in major US cities does not mean Italy is more dangerous than the US. The US has far more serious crime problems than Italy, as crime patterns and risks related to such are not the same in major US cities as in major Italian cities. There are multiple reasons for the differences, but when it comes to pickpockets, some cities in Italy have dens of such thieves in a way that say Washington, DC, and SLC do not. But pickpocketing problems are definitely not unique to Italy. And there are far greater dangers than pickpocketing, even as those dangers tend to be greater in the US than in Italy.
Agree, but I can make it so that I'm 100% sure I'm not going to lose my wallet by pickpocketing in Italy. I'm not sure I can say that I'm 100% sure I won't lose my wallet in the USA, because it's easier to keep a non-violent pickpocket person away from my well secured stuff, than to fight off a guy who wants my wallet and is pointing a gun at me. Fear factor of getting robbed goes way down when I am in Italy. Only once was I tried to be mugged near Rome Termini by 4-5 teens. I knew they wouldn't be armed, so I basically shooed then away. Once in Matera, Basilicata I lost my wallet. My own fault. The hotel owner asked if if called he police. I said of course not. Imagine calling the police in NYC or SF to say you lost your wallet. They're not going to start a manhunt. The hotel owner called the police, and sure enough, they had it. Not a credit card or euro missing, and it was a two mile walk from where I lost it. I asked the police for his name so I could send him a bottle of wine or some type of gift, but they didn't give it to me because they said he didn't want any reward. That's not going to happen in any American city.

It's such a disservice to constantly potray Italians as thieves, crooks, rip-off artists, and pickpockets. Maybe the secret service agents who are assigned to go a week ahead of the President's trip somewhere should stay out of bars, not get drunk, and avoid bordellos. They are not losing so many guns from street pick pockets.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 4:10 am
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Originally Posted by Perche View Post
Agree, but I can make it so that I'm 100% sure I'm not going to lose my wallet by pickpocketing in Italy. I'm not sure I can say that I'm 100% sure I won't lose my wallet in the USA, because it's easier to keep a non-violent pickpocket person away from my well secured stuff, than to fight off a guy who wants my wallet and is pointing a gun at me. Fear factor of getting robbed goes way down when I am in Italy. Only once was I tried to be mugged near Rome Termini by 4-5 teens. I knew they wouldn't be armed, so I basically shooed then away. Once in Matera, Basilicata I lost my wallet. My own fault. The hotel owner asked if if called he police. I said of course not. Imagine calling the police in NYC or SF to say you lost your wallet. They're not going to start a manhunt. The hotel owner called the police, and sure enough, they had it. Not a credit card or euro missing, and it was a two mile walk from where I lost it. I asked the police for his name so I could send him a bottle of wine or some type of gift, but they didn't give it to me because they said he didn't want any reward. That's not going to happen in any American city.

It's such a disservice to constantly potray Italians as thieves, crooks, rip-off artists, and pickpockets. Maybe the secret service agents who are assigned to go a week ahead of the President's trip somewhere should stay out of bars, not get drunk, and avoid bordellos. They are not losing so many guns from street pick pockets.
Crime isn't a reason to stay in the US instead of to visit or live in Italy -- with or without kids. And no one here is portraying Italians as being all that which you mentioned in the third to last sentence above. But even the Italian police know about the pickpocket operations being a major problem, and that is part of the reason why they are sometimes very good about grabbing some of the pickpockets with all the stolen belongings still on them. The street pickpockets in Italy and other parts of Europe generally don't want guns, as that would more substantially risk eating into their business of being pickpockets amongst other things.

I have seen wallets and purses returned in major US cities with everything that was thought to be in them at the time of being lost. And in NYC, I've know a person's whose very valuable wedding ring went missing and was recovered and turned into the police -- that too by a homeless person. And that ring was then worth more than most people's new cars in the city. So the notion that something would never happen in a US city that happened in Italy doesn't really seem all that compelling to me.

The real disservice in this thread is to constantly portray Roma as thieves, crooks, rip-off artists, and pickpockets; and yet, except for myself, no one else here has yet seemed to take issue with that stereotype.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 8:34 am
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There is a dedicated thread in the Italy forum on pickpockets in Rome, why do you need to highjack this one to discuss an important subject without (valid for most, but not all posters) a trace of stats in favour or against one's opinion!
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