Help with Venice restaurants please!
 

First time in Venice with my wife this October and we're staying a total of 10 nights! I've done extensive research and thrown together a list of restaurants (see attached pdf) which I would greatly appreciate your help in refining and perfecting.

As you can probably tell, I've focused mostly on traditional 'cucina Veneziana' - lots of rustic trattorias and osterias. We tend to prefer and seek out older and long-established dining fixtures and institutions which often best reflect the culture and traditions of the places that we visit in our travels at home and abroad. I understand that some might be more 'touristy' than others, playing the historic angle over quality, but this is where I would greatly value your opinions and feedback.

If it isn't plainly evident by my list, the ambiance of a restaurant plays a major factor in our enjoyment of a meal, and while focus should primarily be directed towards the quality of ingredients and proficiency of the kitchen, we are specifically seeking old world charm throughout this trip, which shouldn't be difficult to find in Venice! We'll trade on an innovative Michelin rated experience in a modern dining room (there's no shortage of these restaurants in California) for unique and historic ambiance; so long as the food is remarkably fresh, competently prepared, and thoughtfully presented. We love and welcome creative/inventive cooking, although we're ideally seeking out the best traditional restaurants of Venice, with atmosphere to spare!

I would really value your feedback as I intend to reach out to the concierge of our hotel in the next few weeks to request assistance in booking all of our reservations. :)

Grazie!


PS - I should note that I've categorized everything by meal time; ie. lunches, aperitifs, dinners, etc. We intend to visit all of the famous cafes and pasticcerias, historic bars, gelato shops, etc. I've noted many of the scenic hotel terraces along the canal to stop in for a light afternoon aperitivo. Since we only have 10 nights (11 days total) I've also noted some additional lunch and dinner options that caught my interest, yet couldn't be squeezed into our schedule. I want to make sure I'm on the right track with our lunch and dinner reservations most of all, so I'd love to get your collective feedback on the list and decide what to prioritize. As it stands, I've got 10 dinners and 11 lunches worked in (incl. a meal in Burano) which should be just right.

Yum - we definitely looked out for places that participated in Tickets, for local employees had their luncheons. We ate well and are excited to return!

I can foresee the future: A long post from FT's one and only Venice expert is due later today/tonight ;). Looking forward to reading his ideas on your list. ^

Me too! :)

The places with * beside them are those that I would have most liked to fit into our schedule if we had the extra days. The more stars, the higher priority. I almost regret not booking a full 2 weeks, just to be able to visit all of them. I actually canceled and rescheduled my return flight (overnight layover in Frankfurt) the other day, incurring a $75/person fee, just to book a later 7:05 pm departure so that we could fit in one more meal!! Who wants to leave Venice to spend an afternoon in Frankfurt anyhow?? Haha.

PS - I can't figure out how to edit the attachment in my original post, but here's the most recent updated .pdf
(very minor changes for those who've already downloaded).

Nobody's familiar with any of these restaurants?

I'm thinking of switching 'Ostaria Antico Dolo' to the daytime, since it's a casual bacaro that's opened from 11 AM - 11 PM and could surely accommodate walk-ins at any time. We could probably hop around to a couple of bacaros in the same afternoon. There's no reason why we couldn't pass by Cantine del Vino Già Schiavi and Cantina Do Mori for a few apperitivos and ciccheti. That would free up one more night and I'd really like to squeeze 'Ristorante La Bitta' in, because it really looks fantastic. From what I can gather, it appears to be a market driven chalkboard menu and looks to be younger and more local than many of the other places. The menu also offers a bit of a change from the mostly Venetian seafood classics we'll be eating everywhere else.

I'd also really like to know more about 'Antica Trattoria Poste Vecie' which is supposedly the oldest continually operating restaurant in Venice, or at least they claim that title. The atmosphere looks great and I'd love to get some feedback from anyone who's visited.

I'd also love to see some reviews of Quadri, which my wife is really interested in visiting. That's a bit of a departure from all of our other choices and might be fun to try some modern Venetian fusion cuisine. I'm not sold on it, but my wife is leaning pretty heavy. Any thoughts on this place?


UPDATE:
In case anyone would like to use this for future trip planning, here is thee final, most up-to-date, exhaustive and comprehensive food/drink itinerary imaginable! I will not be adjusting the list any further, but I would still like to get feedback on Quadri and Antica Trattoria Poste Vecie. I'm emailing the Gritti concierge tomorrow... I better leave a nice tip for him! :D

Well this was certainly a lot of work, and it's an interesting list. Mostly great choices, but since you only have 10 nights, maybe I can help you refine.

First, October is the time to go. It's so bad in the summer that I'm not going back for my next half year until November, but October is pretty nice. Just don't stay near Piazza San Marco or the Rialto Bridge. It's still like walking around AT&T in San Francisco watching a Giant game to walk around Venice in those areas. Stay in Castello or far out Canareggio of you want the "ambience" you are looking for.

When you say you want to, "eat with the locals," one of the sad thing is that there aren't that many more locals left. The city's population has plummeted from 160,000 down to the upper 50,000, and if the going rate continues, the last resident will be walking out of resident sometime around 2045.

That's not to say you can't still find it to be the best city in Italy to visit if you were only going to choose one place. It's just that since the invasion of the cruise ships, Venice now looks like this around San Marco Square. So many of these tour groups are coming in, each disgorging 6,000 visitors, and the ships spew out so much smoke that what was once the city with the least smog because there are no cars, now has a much cruise ship pollution as if you are sitting in traffic on a freeway in Milan, Italy's most congested city.

Still, if you can only visit one city in Italy, most Italian authors or writers will tell you it should be Venice, because once you get away from San Marco, it is like no other place in the world.

For every Venetian in the city center, during the summer there are between 50-60 tourists from cruise ships, or wherever. So don't go to that part of it. You know the restaurant owners understand that those people will all be back on there ship at night, and will never come back. So they serve the worst food possible, and the magic of Venice confuses people into thinking it was good.

Eat the good stuff, let the magic of Venice do the rest, and you will really be eating divinely. You just have to be careful, as you do in Rome. The food in Italy tends to be horrible, if not worse, and you need to know where to look.

You list is good, but very diverse.

Cafe and Pasticerrie
Cafe Quadri and Cafe Florian are on opposite sides of San Marco Square. You can eat in the Piazza and watch them play classical music, but if two of you order a coffee, prepare to pay over $20 per cup. Go inside Quadri, and there is a coffee bar like any other in Venice, and pay $1.50 and have had your cafe Quadri.

You want to eat there? I think it's owned by the guy who owns Calandre in Venice, usually rated as one of the best, if not the best restaurant in Italy. I think it's 278 euros per person, wine not included. If that's your fancy sure, but that's "not the way the locals eat.

Pasticerria Rosa Salva was the neighborhood go to place in Campo San Gianipaulo, but it was bought out by a chinese group, like many of the smaller places, and is no longer special. Still good though. If you can make it across to Dorsoduro, Tonolo is decidedly better. Not touristy. Where Venetians go though. Didovich is still a neighborhood place, not a touristy thing like Rosa Salva with its fake gelato.

I think you are mixing bacaro and pranzo with dinner. The same restaurants serve pranzo, or lunch, as serve dinner. For example, you list Antiche Carampane for lunch, yet it's probably one of the top 3 places to have dinner in Venice. You can't divide them that way. Go for lunch or dinner. You won't be able to do both.

You mention aperitivi. They don't have that in Venice. The equivalent is Cicchetti. Little snacks to have with a glass of wine. If you see aperitivi, run. You want to go for cicchetti. Traditional snacks of Venice. Aperitivi, think Torino or Milano.

Be careful because of knock-off names. For example, you have trattoria da fiore on your list. There is Osteria da Fiore, Trattoria da fiore, Ristorante da Fiore. All except the latter are tourist traps. The latter, expect to pay about 150 to 200 euros per person. One of the best places to eat in Venice. You eat in Trattoria da Fiore, might as well go to Olive Garden.

Be careful because there are 3-4 places with the name da More also, only one is good.

Antiche Carampane that you listed for lunch, is one of the hardest restaurants to find in Venice, but also one of the best. So good, you could save it as your place for the last night. It's that unforgettably delicious. Not fancy, just the best.

If you are going to go all the way to Burano, which is a good thing to do with 10 days, Gatto Nero is better than Trattoria da Romano, the place you listed.

For dinner you listed Al Covo, and yes, you shouldn't miss it.

Alle Testiere is also great.

Osteria Quatro Feri, now you're really getting down. True neighborhood place. I used to live and go to school there. The fish selection near the window is amazing. The menu will say that most things are only if you order two, you cannot order one, but the nice old lady will let you. Go for lunch. This would be what I would call real, authentic neighborhood food. You probably won't get your own table. They just seat everybody together, but wherever. It's truly a local gem.

Speaking of cicccheti, the best in Venice is just a few blocks away, and worth asking for directions to get there. Al Bottegon, also called Cantine del Vino Gia Schiavi. Most people won't know how to tell you to get there, see, now getting away from San Marco to 4 Feri and Al Bottegon you will really be eating Venetian native. Just tell people it's across from the school at San Trovaso, and then they will know. Just a few blocks. Now you will eat cicchetti and drink local wine for a few euros.

Spuntini e vino? Spuntini just means a snack. You'll just be going to fancy hotel bars and paying 100 dollars for a snack. That's not Venice. Venice, just get lost into Castello, stop at bars, eat cicchetti, then save your appetite for dinner, if you want to eat like a venetian. No fancy hotel bars. If you insist on it, Il Refolo is probably the best.

Don't go to Venice so much for gelato. It's almost all industrial gelato, nothing special.

Fiaschetteria Toscana is on your list, and is another great one, and it is venetian, not Tuscan food.

Vini di Gigio is a great, atmospheric place in a local neighborhood with top notch food, along a great canal.

Finally, I would be remiss if I didn't tell you about Moeche. It is a particular type of crab that only grows in the venetian lagoon. It is inedible. Except for a few weeks in the Spring and Fall. Then, it sheds its shell and dives deep into the sand, knowing it's vulnerable. The lagoon is very shallow, so venetians walk out into it, and emerge their hand into the mud, and try to come out with them. Since they have no shell, they are easy to destroy and mutilate, so it is tough to get them. When it is Moeche season, all the top restaurants advertise it. I fly over there is I'm not there. It's the ugliest thing to eat, but it is delicious, and only in Venice. When they are available depends on the weather, which determines when they molt. But you are probably going to be there in moeche season, and should definitely look out for it.

Be careful where you eat in Venice. You have a lot of good ones on that list, and a fair amount to fakes.

WOW!! Thank you SO much for all of this invaluable info, Peche! It's truly a huge help and I will be making adjustments based on your feedback.

A few quick points about the food and then some questions related to Venezia in general, as you've obviously spent a great deal of time there and possess a wealth of knowledge...

I was mixing bacaro with lunch in the above list, as a casual mid-day option, but distinguishing it from the majority of our sit-down dinner meals. The only reason that I listed Antiche Carampane for lunch, is because it's open from 12:30 – 7:30 PM most days of the week, making it convenient. Do they not serve the same menu at lunch as they do at dinner? Should we definitely switch that to the evening instead?

I have made some adjustments to my list right before you posted your feedback and I'm going to attach it once more in this message. Would you mind having a quick look and suggesting a restaurant from our "dinner" section that you think could or should be traded for Antiche Carampane instead? Maybe there's something that jumps out at you as being a popular lunch spot which has better ambiance or is perhaps better suited for daytime eating? If I'm going to move Antiche Carampane to dinner (as you've suggested) than I'll have to swap something from the dinner section to the lunch section in it's place.

A few distinctions -- when I mention "aperitivo" I'm really mostly referring to the drinks, ie. apéritifs. Perhaps I'm misusing the word in the true Italian sense, but let's say that I was co-opting the term for the purposes of my list, to refer to the many atmospheric bars where we could order some light pre-dinner drinks; possibly a small bite wherever possible. It doesn't seem like it should be too difficult to snack on something good in most establishments that serve drinks in Venice. One of the things that I truly adore about Italy is the drinking culture. Although I'm partial to strong cocktails, which is not inherent in Italian life (oddly as you'd think vermouth would be more prominent as a base for classic mixed drink) I love that you can walk into most any café and sip on liqueurs from behind the counter. Ah, la bella vita! :p

Thank you so much for correcting my entry on Ristorante Da Fiore!! I'm surprised that so many businesses are allowed to get away with such underhanded tactics. I guess copyright laws aren't a thing in Venice, ha. I surely would've fallen victim to those imposter places and ended up being diverted to some tourist trap had you not specified so thank you again!!!

As for the pasticcerias, you'll see that I updated my list with some of the ones that you've mentioned. I can't believe I missed Marchini Time, it almost looks like a Googie designed lunch counter inside; like it could be transplanted to 1950s Los Angeles- Very cool!

I've heard about Gato Nero in Burano. It's been recommended by many on Chowhound (perhaps yourself?). Is Trattoria da Romano not very good... or is it just not AS good as Gato Nero? I love the space that da Romano occupies. It looks like the large ornate dining room and white jacket service are a large part of the experience. Would you say the food is good, if a step below Gato Nero... or has it become a tourist trap?

As for the hotel bars, I figured we'd stop into a couple of the more spectacular buildings like the Danielli and Aman, just to soak up the atmosphere. I'm aware of the exorbitant costs and prepared to splash out for a drink here and there. The trip is 100% free afterall (flying on miles, staying on points at the Gritti) so I'm okay with being ripped off on a cocktail here and there. Where else could we sip martinis in former 16th c. palazzos after all? :)

Gelato is not a focus for us at all. I've just noted them for the sake of it. I want to visit il Doge as it's been around for some thirty years and if we happen to find ourselves passing by any of the others, so be it. It's good to have that kind of info handy... I'm sure any gelato in Venice will still be world's better than any gelato in San Francisco. Anyhow, we're not giving those much thought.

I'm going to have to wrap this message up and respond in more detail tomorrow as it's midnight here on the West Coast and my poor wife is trying to sleep beside me while I'm busy banging on my keyboard and discussing Italian restaurants. I really appreciate all of your feedback and I look forward to chatting more about Venice with you! I've read all about the situation with the fleeting local population and the unfortunate onslaught of cruise ships, but I am really hoping that it will not be so bad in late October. We're arriving on the 20th and departing on the 30th, so hopefully that will be the tail-end of the tourist season. According to our hotel (Gritti) it's considered off-season already, and reflected in their pricing. I'm not so sure it will be reflected anywhere else though. Do you suppose we could get lucky and escape the scourge of day tourists that descend in hordes on the city this late in the month?

Here's the most recent itinerary once again, and per your advice, I will be switching Antiche Carampane around with something else from the dinner section tomorrow morning. I've gotta let my wife get to sleep now so grazie ancora -- a domani!

PS - One more quick question before I clock out for the night...

Do you recommend Da Fiore for lunch or dinner?

It seems they do not offer the full menu at lunch time:
http://www.dafiore.net/menu-del-pranzo/
http://www.dafiore.net/menu-del-giorno-2/

Do you know if it's possible to do the full tasting menu at lunch and would it be a mistake not to go for dinner for the full experience?

Goodnight!

TRULY the last question (I promise this time!) :D

Looking over my list, I think I'd like to switch both Antiche Carampane and Ristorante Da Fiore to dinners.

The obvious choices to trade places with them would be "Ostaria ai 4 Feri" and "Osteria Al Bacareto" because they are open longer hours most days, whereas many of the other restaurants only offer a 2hr lunch window.

What do you think about doing lunch at Al Bacareto and ai 4 Feri?

Better to do these for lunch than Antiche Campache and Da Fiore, since the latter are much more ambitious and "special" places?


EDIT: I see you suggested Quattro Feri for lunch, so that's perfect! Sorry, I was very tired last night. Do you know about Bacareto as well? Also, have you every been to or heard anything about Antica Trattoria Poste Vecie?

Attached is the updated file yet again, reflecting most of your suggestions. I've yet to make the changes to our plans in Burano as I wanted to hear from you first and get a better sense of whether Trattoria da Romano is simply not good at all... or whether it's just not as great as al Gatto Nero Da Ruggero.

Also, do you know anything about these food/wine tastings & tours?

http://www.deliciousitaly.com/blog/sara-cossiga
http://www.walksinsidevenice.com/who-we-are.php
http://venetianvine.com/

Or the Eolo sailboat?
http://www.cruisingvenice.com

I know these aren't exactly the things that locals would partake in, but they do seem interesting and unique, and they are serviced by locals. I'm also thinking of splashing out on one expensive touristy canal cruise, possibly with the Gritti, who have a really spectacular wooden Riva speedboat: http://www.thegrittipalace.com/riva-yacht-experience

I was considering requesting a half-day excursion to the islands on the above craft. I know it will cost a fortune, but it will also be really memorable and I don't mind indulging in some luxuries in Venice.

I'm reading not such good things about Trattoria alla Madonna on various forums. Has this place gone down hill? It used to be highly recommended... it sounds like it might be catering solely to the tourists now. I've read reports of frozen fish/seafood and canned sauces. Could you please tell me whether it's still any good? Should we go to Osteria Oliva Nera instead?

Just sent everything to hotel concierge!

I've left 4 afternoons free to visit the following places:

• Cantina do Spade

• Cantine del Vino Già Schiavi

• Cantina Do Mori

• Osteria All'Arco

• Al Mercà

• Osteria Antica Adelaide

I figure we could easily stop into 2 or 3 in a single afternoon.

We also have no plans our final afternoon so we'll play it by ear. We may end up just sitting out on the terrace at our hotel or perhaps the Ca'Segrado to enjoy the views and breathe in Venice before we have to leave. Update (edited): I've requested res. at Locanda Cipriani for lunch on our last Sunday in Venice. Fingers crossed that it will be warm enough to sit under the pergola in the garden or outside on the terrace.

Does this forum have a moderator? We should pin this thread. It's pretty much a go-to dining guide to Venice at this point.

The only thing I can think to answer for you is that on your original list, Trattoria alla Madonna, is pretty good but it's in a very touristy area and is surrounded by much worse places to eat. The first time I went to Venice I didn't know any better, ate a lot of crappy food, but someone pointed me to this place and I had a very good meal. You probably have a list full of much better places at this point, but if you're near Ponte Rialto and need to eat, Trattoria Alla Madonna is one of the few good places in that area.

"I listed Antiche Carampane for lunch, is because it's open from 12:30 – 7:30 PM most days of the week, making it convenient."

Those are definitely not their hours. With very few exceptions restaurants are closed between 2:30 and 7:00-7:30. The only ones open at that time are the tourist traps around San Marco. With a barker outside trying to hand you a menu, "Meeester, come on in." All good restaurants are closed during the hours you mention, including most especially Antiche Carampane.

Just a few thoughts on a generally excellent list. You've done your homework.

I wouldn't eat my lunch at Ca'Doro alla Vedova. Every place now knows that they have to advertise, "where the locals eat," and they say that, but it isn't true. Alla Vedova is on perhaps the worst street in Venice, Strada Nuova. Napoleon didn't like the crooked streets of Venice, so he mowed down everything in his path to make a straight line from where the train station and bridge from the mainland arrive, from what was then the closest waterway to the mainland, and built a straight new street (Strada Nuova) to allow his carriage to take him straight to San Marco Square. He bowled over priceless buildings in his path, and made a straight street. Thank goodness he didn't make it all the way there, but Strada Nuova is the worst street in Venice. Nothing but fast food, touristy places. If you are looking for atmosphere, a few dozen yards from Alla Vedova, iw Venice's only McDonalds, if you catch my drift. Tourist rip off central. La Cantina, you also have on your list for dinner is next to alla Vedov. Just walk from Alla Vedova, past McDonalds, about 50 feet and you'll be at La Cantina. That kind of neighborhood. These two places are not highlight places for dining in Venice. What they both have in common is that they are on either side of McDonald's, and locals don't go to either one of them.

If moeche is on the menu @ Al Covo, order it. I did and when I finished I ordered another.