obscure2k

I wondered if Ca Sagredo was open on NYE as it is pretty convenient to Ai Mori. They are open but they are offering a fixed price meal of 350Eur pp.
I think Perche suggested eating a leisurely late lunch on NYE day. Return to the hotel where I know you will find decent little snacks in the bar; sandwiches and salads and cocktails. I wouldn't knock myself out looking to dine on NYE, You are going for a boat ride which will presumably be a festive experience and fun way to ring in the New Year.

murphy

Thanks so much obscure2k and Perche. You've both been really helpful, and I appreciate it. I am indeed at the Al Mori di Oriente, and I believe I will take your advice and make lunch the big meal of the day. Thanks, and happy holidays to you both.

brewdog11

Right now I'm looking at dining at Vini di Gigio the night before the restaurant closes for a month-long "winter holiday." This may be a silly question, but could eating there the night before compromise quality at all?

Also, I've noticed the restaurant has changed their policy and no longer takes email reservations. If I contact them via Skype, will they be able handle the reservation in English?

Thanks

Perche

The fact that it is the last day of the season shouldn't affect a quality place like Da Gigio. The fish will have been caught the night before. The only effect of the winter holiday may be that the menu may have fewer choices because not everything has to be fresh that day, only the fish, so they might run out of a few things that could be sold over a few days.

Restaurants, not just in Italy, but in the USA and Europe are starting to require a credit card number as a placeholder, and therefore want a phone call. This is increasingly common in better restaurants because there is a huge problem with no-shows. It is easy to send an email to five restaurants to reserve a table, then at the last minute make your choice out of the five, and leave the other four with an empty table for the night. Da Gigio has only two seatings per night, and is a small place. If there is a no-show for one of the two seatings at one of the few tables, they lose a significant chunk of business. Hotels started doing the same thing years ago, you can't just email a request for a reservation. Most restaurants do it yet, but it is a growing practice.

For these reasons, restaurants are increasingly wanting your credit card number for a reservation, not just an email. There is no charge unless you are a no-show or cancel with less than 24 hours notice. Some won't charge if they can seat the table with a walk-up, but otherwise, there is usually a $50 charge for not showing.

You should be able to Skype them and make a reservation speaking in english, if you get a decent connection. Your hotel can also do it, and it will probably easier if you authorize them to do so.

Perche

I just confirmed that anyone authorized to pick up the phone at Da Gigio speaks english, so go ahead and just Skype them.

murphy

Just wanted to follow up and report back on my first visit to Venice. We had an amazing time, in large part due to the folks in this forum, especially obscure2k and Perche. Thanks again for everyone's helpful advice.

We stayed at Ai Mori d'Oriente and loved it. The neighborhood was perfect for us - well off the beaten path, but the city is so compact and fun to walk that we didn't mind at all having to walk a bit further. I had originally planned to buy a multi day vaporetto pass, but I didn't bother, because we enjoyed walking so much. Walking back to the hotel at night, we were frequently alone for long stretches through dark, narrow alleys and canals, and it felt like we were the only two people in the city. Then we'd turn around a corner to find a crowded bar with patrons hanging around front drinking very reasonably priced wine,so we'd stop for refreshments.

The hotel itself was great. We paid for a deluxe canal view room, and got upgraded to a junior suite canal view. The room was beautiful, the service was friendly, breakfast was tasty. I recommend the hotel.

The restaurants we ate dinner at were all good. Sadly, I didn't make notes, so I can't describe what we had at each restaurant, but I can give general impressions.

Al Covo was our favorite. We ate there after a concert at La Fenice. The food and service were top notch. We were particularly impressed with the wine recommendation, a funky, earthy vitovska.

Our second favorite was Caravella, where we at after a concert at Musica a Palazzo. We had our first taste of moeche there, and found it delicious.

Our New Year's Eve dinner was at Bentigodi, a charming neighborhood restaurant that served us the largest plate of fried mixed seafood I've ever seen. The food was delicious, but the portions were huge, and we ordered way too much.

Our first night we ate at Fiaschetteria Toscana. It was good, but not as good as the others. This may have been due to our late arrival. The kitchen was due to close shortly. We enjoyed our meal, but I'm glad it was our first meal, because it would have been a bit of a letdown after the others.

We had cichetti at a bunch of places, and I don't have all their names, but the standout of them was all'Arco, which was tiny, packed, and wonderful.

A couple other quick thoughts: I had a great tour with Venice by Run. A one hour sunrise run through Cannareggio and Castello to the Arsenale and back through San Marco with an extremely knowledgeable tour guide was just what I needed to get my bearings and work of some large meals.

Teatro La Fenice is gorgeous, and the Concerto di Capodonna was good. I didn't love the playing of the orchestra, but the soloists and chorus were very good.

Musica a Palazzo was fun. We saw La Traviata. It was a very different experience from a normal opera performance. Only three singers and four musicians, no chorus, and the opera is necessarily abbreviated, but it was a lot of fun. The soprano was excellent, with a huge voice that would have filled La Fenice. Hearing her in a smallish palazzo, singing five feet away was quite an experience. The other voices were decent. The musicians were excellent, and seemed to relish playing the melodramatic arrangement.

Venice itself was so much more wonderful than I had expected. It's my new favorite city. I don't really have anything to say about it that hasn't already been said much more eloquently, so I'll leave it at that.

Perche

New, "hot, best restaurants of 2017."

Most of the restaurants in Venice with top notch reputations have held up over time. A few have not, as in some neighborhoods locals move out and less-discerning tourists become the main customers, or owners sell to less qualified people who don't maintain the high standards. Updates are also important because new chefs sometimes open restaurants, some of which are unbelievably good, and that have freshened up the traditional dishes. A new list of "Hot Restaurants of the Moment, Best Restaurants of 2017" was just published by a very credible source. It came out the same day I left Venice last week. However, I had eaten already in some of them, new of others, and by a stroke of luck managed to eat in one of them, and had one of the few pasta dishes that will go down forever in memory.

The article is in Italian so one can cut and paste it into Google translate, which is not that accurate and sometimes results in silly mis-translations, but is good enough. I'll translate a few lines and give a couple of comments. Notice that most of the "hot" restaurants are in the Castello district, which is the part of Venice that remains local, unspoiled, traditional, least touristy. The article is great, even if you don't read it, because of the pictures of the food. The restaurants are not ranked in order.

http://www.dissapore.com/ristoranti/...migliori-2017/
by CATERINA VIANELLO

Venice is full of tourists who eat in touristy restaurants, bars, and outdated places, eating the equivalent of fast food....

1. Estro, Vino e Cucina. Dorsoduro, 3778
Immediately in front of the pastry shop Tonolo, this place that has great cicchetti, and classic fish dishes from a limited menu that changes frequently. 15 euros for a 1st plate, 20 euros for a second. (I wish I'd known that. Last Friday I walked all the way to Tonolo to get a fritella, the special Venetian pastry that only comes out for Carnevale, but I got there too late and they were closed. If I'd have known about this place, I would have tried it. Tonolo is the premier bakery of Venice, Rosa Salva no longer is.)

2. Enoteca Ai Artisti, Fondamenta della Toletta, Dorsoduro 1169/A
Between Campo Santa Margherita and Accademia, an area full of students and forgettable bars, plastic pizza, and kebab places making food that takes a couple of days to digest, you can enjoy fine food here. The chef used to work at Calandre (the restaurant in Padua that is considered one of the finest in the world). You can pass on the same old spaghetti al mare, fritto misto, and tiramisu, and try some new things because you'll find things on a seasonal menu such a, pumpkin gnocchi with a ragu made of cow cheeks, red chicory, and parmesano.15 euros for a 1st plate, 25 for a 2nd. (I am in Campo Santa Margherita almost daily when in Venice, and always pass by this place. I ate here four years ago and wasn't impressed, but this is a new chef. I'll have to give it another try.)

3. CoVino. Calle del Pestrin, Castello, 3829a
Owned by the son of the chef of the restaurant, "La Mascareta," a restaurant that is a city institution, You'll feel like you are in a micro restaurant as there are only six tables. Strictly seasonal, Slow Food at a fixed price 39 euros for a three course dinner. (This place is around the corner from where i usually rent an apartment, and I've passed it many times. I don't follow my own advice, and take too long to make a reservation, so I'd never been able to eat there. In the afternoon I'd always see the young owner/chef sitting at a table in deep thought, trying to plan his menu for that night. Last week I tried once again, and he said, "you are lucky, we just had a cancelation. I had one of the most memorable pastas I've ever eaten, and fish to match. This placed launched to the top of my list. I wanted to eat there my last night, but again I took too long to make a reservation. I highly recommend this place, especially at this price.).

4. Local, Castello 3303
The third generation of owners of the beloved hotel Pensione Wildner (Wildner also has one of the few decent restaurants on the water front next to Piazza San Marco, I might add). The menu is based on the Venetian lagoon, as is the decor, with everything by local artisans. The chefs worked in Copenhagen at Noma (which was ranked as the best restaurant in the world for many years). The touch is modern and refined, but if you want the classics, they are also optimal. If you want to experiment try the ravioli with faro, red shrimp, cocoa, and lime. A three course meal is fixed price 60 euros.

5. Antica Osteria da Gino,Fondamenta San Giuseppe – Castello 654
It's not understandable how the zone between Arsenale and Giardini is out of the circuit of places where people think you eat well, where you instead you discover hidden pearls.

Same management since 1968, comfortable homey place with cooking by Danila who knows Venetian traditional cooking like few others. If you like fish without excessive embellishment, this is your place. It's obligatory to try the risotto di go (go is a local fish), a fish that is the nightmare of every chef to filet and cook because it's an immense task. 1st plate 17, second 25 euros. (This place is way, way off the beaten path. I used to have an apartment in the Giardini area which is the deepest part of Castello, and I've been eating in this restaurant since 2010. You walk down a long stretch along a canal, and this place is waterside on the canal. It's a real, true neighborhood place. It's a non-touristy, as local as you could get. It's a great choice for a romantic meal.)

6. Osteria Santa Marina, Campo Santa Marina – Castello 5911
A beautiful, refined place a few steps from Santa Maria Formosa. Chef Doria has the merit of no longer being in love with the food of the past, and the boring repetition of the same dishes. The fish and pasta tell a new, curious, intriguing story, between the raw, or boiled, or creamed, grilled, oven baked, vegetables that are always the freshest of the season from local Venetian gardens. The smiles of the staff here are not forced. Three course meal 55-60 euros. (co-moderator obscure2K recommended this place to me a week ago last Sunday. I went, but unfortunately, they were closed. It's on the list for next time.).

7. Al Covo, Campiello della Pescaria – Castello 3968
Ten minutes from Piazza San Marco, where incredibly, you don't hear the footsteps of tourists. The menu is based on fish from the lagoon and local gardens, but they also have excellent meat dishes. Typically 20 euros for a 1st dish, 25 for a second, or a six course meal for 59. (I won't say much about this place, because it is already so well known. It's been "hot" for years. It's hidden just enough so that it doesn't get the San Marco tourist crowd. It's not a good idea to go to Venice and not eat here at least once. Probably more than any other place, it becomes peoples' favorite Venetian meal.)

8. Ai mercanti. Calle dei Fuseri, Corte Coppo – San Marco 4346/a
Practically in San Marco Square, the zone selected by tourists eating from the "tourist menu," each one the same as the other, each one costing more than the other, to find a place like this located in a small court with the opposite type of food than what San Marco is known for, is cause for a toast. Relaxed, friendly, down to earth but elegant, delicious plates like cod ravioli, paccheri with ricotta, chard, mullet, artichokes. It's little things done well, without exhibitionism. First plates 13 euros, seconds 18. (Note, this is the only "hot" place on the list located in San Marco, which raises questions about the constant choice of hotels "close to San Marco")

9. Osteria Al Portego. Calle Della Malvasia, San Lio- Castello, 6014
Don't call it a bar, even though it looks like that because it has a large display of cicchetti with a variety that would stun anyone who tries to compare it with any cicchetti place, it also has a menu worth exploring. First, they only have 6 tables, so don't bother to show up without a reservation. If you get in look at the cicchetti and try to decide between the sarde in saor, roasted seppie with polenta, meat or tuna meatballs. If you succeeded in getting a table there is seafood pasta, bigoli in salsa (thick spaghetti with an anchovy sauce) or with duck sauce, smoked octopus, or a soup 'cucina povere," (what peasants used to eat made out of the inner organs of animals that no one else would want.) Popular prices with first plates 13, seconds 15-20.

10. Ai Promessi Sposi, Calle dell’Oca – Cannaregio 4367
Near Campo San Apostoli, on a street semi-hidden from the Strada Nova that is always packed with tourists (Strada Nova is probably the worst street in all of Venice). This is an osteria where besides tastings from the bar, we recommend you have lunch. Fish takes precedence, and if scallops are on the menu order them right away, but don't forget first and second plates, bigoli with goose, radicchio lasagna with pumpkin cream. 1st plate 13, second around 18 euros.

(Notice how most of the "hot" restaurants are located away from San Marco and Rialto, touristy areas, and are in the areas that are still local, especially Castello).

obscure2k

Sorry to report that Fiachetteria Toscana is closed and will soon become a Burger King.

rickg523

Ugh. Aren't there Burger Kings on the cruise ships?
A sit-down eat-in BK, I hope. Otherwise, the nearby streets are going to be clogged with people squatting on steps eating their burgers. And let me tell you, anyone who goes to Venice and eats at a BK ain't gonna care a whole lot about where the trash ends up.

Perche

I think they were there since the late 1950's. Despite Toscana being in it, this place had nothing to do with Tuscan food. In the 1800's someone from Tuscany migrated there to make Tuscan flasks. Over time it morphed into a bar, and then finally a Venetian restaurant, but it kept the original name, Tuscan Flask Maker, Fiaschetteria Toscana.

It's final demise was due to its location. It's on the way between Piazza San Marco and the Rialto Bridge. In interviews with the owners, they said something like, "the only people who would walk down this street are people here for 24 hours who want to take a selfie in Piazza San Marco, then walk to the Rialto Bridge, and buy glass souvenirs made in China along the way. These type of people have no interest in good food." They blamed their demise on uncontrolled mass tourism. They went on to lament that a few months ago Venice passed a new law banning opening any new fast food places, but it was too late to save the Fiaschetteria Toscana. They mentioned that there are 3 fast food places around them, where day trippers by take out food, and eat outside on the steps, and also places with the menu on a blackboard outside, in 7 languages, advertising "Menu Turistico." These are not people who would know the pleasures of Venetian cooking, which ranks way up there as among the best cities to eat in Italy.

It's a shame. Banning new fast food places and new AirBnb's have been good first steps, and the cruise ship ban, voted in favor by about 99% vs 1% of voters, will also hopefully reverse this trend, if it finally happens.

OliverB

I can't believe it's already been a full year since our trip!!

I probably should have done this way sooner but here are our photos (mix of proper fujifilm and lousy iphone camera) if anyone's interested in seeing them:

Album No. 1
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=24d189259a

Album No. 2
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=a723220068


I still have about 300 photos from the Doges which I haven't even downloaded from my camera yet. I get too overwhelmed when thinking about sorting and editing them all!

obscure2k

Thanks, Oliver B. I really enjoyed viewing your albums. Beautiful collection of photos and memories.
I return this coming week and as many times as I have been to Venice, it is always so thrilling return to the familiar and discover something new.

OliverB

Lucky you!! I'm not sure when we'll have the opportunity to return again, but we will definitely be back. My wife, who's lived on four continent and traveled extensively throughout Europe and Italy, was not expecting to be so infatuated by Venice, but she ended up getting totally swept up (as I knew she would!) and returned filled with inspiration. She wants to go back to work on an art project some day. It's truly one of the most enchanting places in the world. The food ain't too shabby either!

Buon viaggio!

Perche

There is a very reputable magazine about great food in Italy. Every year since 2010 they list the best bacari in Venice. These small inexpensive restaurants or bars where you can get cicchetti and in some, basic venetian meals. They caution that the reputations of places to eat in Venice can be fleeting, due to ownership changes and other factors. But below is their new list of the best bacari, with a few comments if I know the place well.

Their #1 , Cantinone gia' Schiavi, is one I go to all the time. It's on Rio San Trovaso, very near Campo Santa Margherita, an area I usually visit several times a week. No sit down dining, but the very best cicchetti, crostini, panini, with a great wine list. You eat standing up at the bar, or out in the street. It's a great place for a basic, but inexpensive meal. It is well off the beaten path, and is truly a place where the locals go for a quick bite. #2 , Alla Ciurma, I don't know. #3 , All' Arco, is pretty close to the Rialto Bridge, which is generally as bad as eating around San Marco, but there are surprisingly good bacardi there. This one is just down a side street from the Rialto Bridge. In addition to cicchetti, crostini, it has some sit down tables eat some simple dishes, and even not so simple dishes at bacaro prices. #4 Da Fiore. Be careful here. There are a several places called Da Fiore in Venice, including a Michelin star restaurant. This is not that one, obviously. There is the overpriced Trattoria da Fiore at the outer part of the San Marco district, near Campo Santo Stefano (near Accademia Bridge), and it is not that one either. It is Bacaro da Fiore, right next door to Trattoria da Fiore. It has the usual bacaro food, plus sit down dishes at bacaro prices. #5 , Don't know.

#6 and #7 , El Refolo and Vecio Trani, are literally right next door to each other on Via Garibaldi. Via Garibaldi is a street that everyone should walk down during a visit. It gets into the real Venice, it's touristy near the water, but as you walk into it, it becomes very local. Always, when I kayak in Venice when I finish and am really hungry, but sweaty and in kayak gear, and not presentable enough to go to a restaurant, I come here and eat at both. Only locals in these two bacari. I can never remember which is which, but the one on the left has better prosecco, and since I'll be thirsty, I go there first. Then I go to the other one next door, just for the variety. Both have tables outside, and it's where the locals hang out. I've never seen a tourist in either place, although I've seen Venetians bring tourist friends with them to these two places.

#8 , Vino Vero, I don't know. It's in Cannaregio, near the Ghetto. The right up says it's near a school, a default place for students, has a long table, you can eat outside adjacent to the water, and there are often musicians playing outside. Sounds interesting and very authentic. #9 . Do Mori is another one of the fine Bacari near the Rialto Bridge. It's kind of the symbol of bacari in Venice because it was founded in 1462. They didn't even build the Rialto Bridge until over 125 years later. You go there for the atmosphere. I don't think there are tables, just cicchetti, but it is also known for having perhaps the best wine list in Venice. Whenever I'm around there, which is usually cell phone related stuff, I stop here. I don't think it's that the cicchetti itself are that special, but the atmosphere of being in ancient Venice is. #1 0. Enoteca Al Yolo. It's about 5 minutes from Piazza San Marco. Don't know it.

https://www.dissapore.com/ristoranti...migliori-2017/

Rrau

Is anyone able to send me this itinerary? For some reason I cannot download