OliverB

Would a 10:30 res be a safe bet?

Edit:
I decided to make a 10:30 pm reservation at Ristorante Quadri at my wife's request. It looks like a beautiful venue so this will be our one fancy splurge meal. The upstairs dining room with views of San Marco is quite special and combined with the opera and a private wine tasting which I'm arranging with the Gritti beforehand (hopefully on the Terrazza Redentore if the suite is not occupied), it should make for a romantic evening. I've notified the restaurant that we'll be coming straight from the opera and that we'll do our best to rush right over. It looks to be an 8 min. walk according to Google Maps.

Perche

Absolutely not black tie. That's for the New Years Eve spectacle, and for the openings of the opera. I wouldn't go in shorts and sandals for example, or with a tee shirt, but there is no dressing up. The only people who will have sports coats on are those who just got out of work. It is definitely not sloppy nor casual, just regular clothes will do. Most people with a sports coat will have gone to work with it and that's why they have it on. They wouldn't go home to get it just to see the opera.

Perche

Hard to pinpoint exactly, because depending on the enthusiasm of the audience, there can be more than one encore. I just saw a concert in Rome this past Tuesday and there were four encores. The show was supposed to end at 10:30, but went on to 11:30.

That won't happen in Venice, it's going to be lights out at 10:30, no matter how many encores people want. But at that hour, you might be walking in some crowds, even though it's a short distance. I would tell them between 10:30 and 10:45. They'll go with that. There's a lot more flexibility with time than one would think. Just tell them that it depends on the program and when you get out, and they will surely accomodate.

OliverB

Thanks Perche. Unfortunately they wrote me back (talk about quick response!) and explained that they close their kitchen at 22:30 with the last order. The opera at Palazzo Barbarigo Minotto finishes at 22:30, if there are no delays. Understandably, they informed me they wouldn't be able to seat us as we wouldn't arrive in time and they couldn't keep their staff waiting. I do find it strange that they accept reservations right up until closing time. I might expect that from a casual osteria but not a fine dining establishment where meals are generally more ambitious and paced out. Oh well, I guess no Quadri then...

I might consider swapping Ignazio as I think my wife would really enjoy dining at Quadri, I'll have to think about it... it's too bad they don't open earlier in the evenings. I suppose it would offer a bit of diversity to our dining itinerary.

Edit: I'm trying to see if Da Ignazio will seat us right before 11pm, if we switch our res to Friday and book Quadri in it's place. It looks as though their dinner hours are 7-11 PM. I've asked our concierge to inquire whether they'd accommodate us that late; we could always hire a gondolla to take us right over, which would probably be quickest and most direct. In the likely event that they would not be able to accommodate us so late in the evening (right before closing time) do you suppose that a 7pm dinner would afford us enough time to enjoy a pleasant meal and still make the 8:30 opera at the Palazzo? While the performance begins at 8:30 PM, doors are open to the public at 8:00 PM. I worry that might be too narrow a window to enjoy a reasonable dinner and make the performance without undue stress. What do you think?

OliverB

I had to do some shifting around yet again since Quadri is closed on Mondays. I cancelled Da Ignazio (with much regret) and moved Ai Assassini to Monday night in it's place. I'm actually glad that I did, because according to their menu, Monday nights specialty is carni bianche in traditional Venetian preparation. That seems like a welcome departure from our other meals and I look forward to classic veal and rabbit dishes. I booked a table at Quadri in place of our original Wed. night reservation at Assassini, and I requested seating by the window, overlooking Piazza San Marco. Cost and value aside, it will be extremely difficult not to allow ourselves to be seduced in a magical setting like that; especially with all the day tourists drained out to sea!

Non-NonRev

The emphasis at the Fenice changed a while back - they now de-emphasize the highest-ranked international singers, although the conductors are top ranked. They are also more open to contemporary productions than previously.

VivoPerLei

Not sure if you're familiar with Andy Hayler, but he's a pretty well known and highly respected restaurant blogger. He says Quadri is the best restaurant in Venice by far. You should have a great meal.

http://www.andyhayler.com/restaurant/quadri

OliverB

Thanks for the link. I wasn't aware of Andy Hayler, but that's an excellent review and I'm really looking forward to it!

Perche

You can't determine exactly when the opera will finish, and you've got a ten minute walk to Il Quadri, so if you don't want to chance it, that is understandable.

Don't think of a gondola as transportation. It's a fun ride for fun, it's not transportation anymore. It can be done, but it's really not for that. If you want to get somewhere quickly you have to take a water taxi, also called motoscafi. Your hotel can have one waiting for you, and would be a five minute walk from the Palazzo. It would probably cost about 40 euros, and take you right to the door of Da Ignazio, because it is on a canal.

When they will take their last order is at 11, but as a neighborhood place if they are not busy they could close earlier. The best thing to do would be to make a reservation to have a water taxi waiting at your hotel, and have them take you there. But have them call Da Ignazio to tell them you are coming, and make sure they will wait the 10 minutes to get you there.

Other than that, unless you want to skip the encores, which can vary in length each day, you might go with Caravello.

A motor boat down the grand canal for about 40 euros to Da Ignazio, down some of the best parts of the canal, would be pretty memorable. You'll be totally lost getting back, but that's another story. You can have the restaurant call for a water taxi.

Otherwise, La Caravella is your best choice in that immediate area, and it's less than 5 minutes walk from the Palazzo. You really can't eat before, unless you are just going to snack. Any restaurant open before 7 is pretty much not going to be worth it.

Right now I'm waiting for one of my favorite restaurants to open, unfortunately it doesn't open until 7:45 PM, and it's just a neighborhood place. The good restaurants have limited hours, it will be hard to eat before. I think you can only squeeze in a good restaurant either before or after at La Caravella.
https://www.motoscafivenezia.it

Perche

That's good because Ai Assassini is nothing special. There really is no such thing as meat in the traditional venetian fashion. There are no rabbits. Venice is overrun with cats, and have been for centuries, brought here to control the rats. The rats now are so by they can eat th cats. A rabbit has no chance.

There is no hunting. There is no place for a cow to graze. It's fish. There are some places where you can get a decent meat dish, Al Covo being one of them, but it's interesting. I'm in Rome right now. None of my friends, and I'm talking about University Professors here chatting about food, will eat the fish, even though you fly in right over the water before landing at FCO. Why? It's all about freshness and quality of the ingredients. They will only order fish if they are in Ostia or Civitavecchia, where the fish will have been caught that day. They don't like the fish here in Rome because it is always one day old, although there are a few good fish places in Here.

There is no place to graze cows, raise pigs, or hunt rabbits in Venice. There are places that specialize in meat, but it's more of a rarity. You can be sure that if you go to the Rialto market early in the morning and watch the fishing boats come in, the fish you will eat that evening is on one of those boats.

Perche

I'd beware. He is someone who lives in London, made a killing in the computer business, and made a vow to eat in every Michelin star restaurant in the world. He was in Venice for a month or so a few years ago, and ate at Il Quadri, Il Ridotto, Da Fiore, Alle Testiere, the Venetian starred restaurants. He has a website that rates the few restaurants he's eaten at in every country from Argentina, Indonesia, Nepal, etc. Hardly an expert in where to eat in Venice.

Of course the meal will be good at Il Quadri. It better be, at 300 euros per person, plus about 100 euros per bottle of wine. I wouldn't guarantee that it will be venetian food, but it will still be worth it as a lifetime event.

It's really not possible to say this is the best place in Venice, because they don't serve Venetian food. There is no such thing as Italian food. Italy is such a young country that there is no such thing. Each place has its own dishes. Unfortunately I had to make a quick trip to Modena yesterday, and I just don't like the food there. They can't grow olive oil there, but they do a great job with pigs and cows, so everything is drenched in butter and lard.

Ravioli drenched in butter was the only thing I could eat on the menu. In Rome the food is completely different, and it will be different when I get to Venice in September. Il Quadri is a great restaurant by reputation. Since the Alajmo family, owners of Le Calendre in Venice took it over they raised it to get a Michelin Star. They've been trying to get it to three stars like their restaurant in Padua, but have not been able to.

I really wouldn't rely on a guy whose website indicates that during his world travels he'd eaten in 4 restaurants in Rome and 5 restaurants in Venice in 2014, all of the usual ones with a Michelin star, then he moved onto Isle of Man, Germany, then San Francisco. In SF he ate at Aquarello, Campton Place at the Taj Hotel, and of course State Bird Provisions, places you'll find in every guide. Now, his website indicates that he's on to Washington DC.

That's not how to find the best. All he's doing is reading the Michelin guide, and eating in those places and rating them. That's not how you'll discover Swan Oyster Depot in San Francisco.

obscure2k

A great friend who is a water taxi driver introduced us to Marisa about 15 years ago. We try to go with him when we are in Venice. They treat him and all of his buddies who are dining like family. Food is simple and good and plentiful. It is in Cannargegio near the Tres Arches bridge. I suspect it is very reasonably priced as our friend, Marco always insists on grabbing the check.
I have no idea if they accept reservations as our friend is always welcome.
Perhaps Perche would know.

PWMTrav

Locals get different prices than everyone else in Venice. By that regard, it's really nice of your friend to pick up that tab! But from what I hear, as I haven't been there myself (but plan to), the prices in general are very reasonable. Just so we're talking about the same place - this one doesnt have any kind of menu, they just serve what they're making that day, right?

OliverB

Sorry, I wasn't clear -- we're still going to Assassini. We're going on a Monday night, which is when they serve white meat. According to their website, most of their daily specials are meat. Monday it's white meat, Tuesday it's braised meats, Wednesday it's boiled meats. Only Thurs-Sun do they prepare fresh seafood, so far as I can tell.

Here's our final dining itinerary.

PS - Are there not farms on a number of the islands surrounding the lagoon or are those mostly produce?

obscure2k

At this restaurant there is no menu and no English spoken. The owner/server tells Marco what is being served that day, normally a meat dish, a fish dish and pasta. Marco orders and a carafe of wine appears. Tastes good. Best of all is our friend knows the locals who work in the neighborhood. His brother is a fireman, whose station is nearby. Seating is family style.