Perche

Rigoletto is not Wagner, it is actually a fairly short piece. This is opera in a palace, moving from room to room, as if you are living it. They don't have stage sets to change, and there is no chorus, so they will easily finish by 10:30. Dinner afterward, as long as it's nearby, should not be a problem (as always, with a reservation).

Non-NonRev

This must be a surprise to the chorus of courtiers who sing "zitti, zitti" as they kidnap Gilda with Rigoletto's unwitting help (unless they are cutting that scene).

But true, Rigoletto is not Tristan or Gotterdammerung - or even Rossini's Mathilde di Shabran or Guillaume Tell.

User Name

Just want to say I love this thread. I'll always have a special thing for Venice after getting engaged to my beautiful wife there. I love food, and am a planner (and control freak) by heart, but could never come close to the diligence OP has made in his endeavour.

I truly hope he and his wife have the time of their lives!

Perche

It is different. This is not La Fenice. This is a unique setting. The opera takes place in a fancy apartment building, and you, as the audience, become part of the opera. For example, if it was La Traviata, you would be in the ballroom, dancing. It is a unique experience. Not opera lite, they do the whole thing, and the singing is great. It's more of an experience, hard to describe. It all takes place in an apartment, and you are sitting in it while the opera happens in the room around you. It's not a regular Rigoletto, like they would do at La Fenice, in three acts. They do the whole thing, but it is not a large palazzo, there is no room for a chorus. I don't believe they cut any scenes, it's just that there is no stagecraft, no chorus, etc., so it moves fairly quickly.

VivoPerLei

I have eaten in Venissa twice. The first dinner, a couple of years ago, was fabulous. I would rank that meal as amongst the best I have ever had. Sadly, they had a turnover in the kitchen and the second time I ate there with the new head chef and the new menu it was a bitter disappointment. The restaurant will arrange to meet you by boat and bring you back, so that is a possibility.

Have also eaten in Alle Testiere, Da Fiore, and Ai Mercanti. All were somewhat touristy with the first two being over-rated, in my opinion. Ai Mercanti was okay.

PWMTrav

I'd forgotten to mention it, but if you're in the more touristy area between Piazza San Marco and Ponte Rialto, one decent option is Bistrot de Venise. It has a mention (not starred) in the Michelin Guide 2016. Their "thing" is cooking historical Venetian food, so they have a historical menu and a modern menu. We enjoyed doing a course from each (since there were 2 of us). I thought it was high quality with service to match - we asked to pair wines and they did a nice job there too. The prices, however, do reflect both the quality and the location, meaning this won't be cheap. For that, it's not an especially good value, not because the food sucked, but because the prices are high.

I also like Osteria Il Milion, although I've only been there for lunch. Yeah the place definitely does its best to draw in tourists, but I enjoyed the food - you just need to show up with a strategy. First, ignore that the menu is in a few different languages, even though I almost always suggest the opposite. Then, stick to things on the menu that are seafood-oriented. For instance, the last time I went, the antipasti were all seafood, except for a prosciutto e melone choice. You're in Venice, don't order the prosciutto. Then, with the primi, risotto is more interesting, but if you choose a pasta again look at seafood (meaning don't order their bolognese, as they keep some "safe" choices on the menu again to seat tourists). This restaurant's location reflects the reality that most of their traffic is going to be tourists, since locals tend not to live nearby. They haven't completely mailed it in and started to microwave .... for foreigners, but they put some compromise choices on the menu, things that tourists expect to eat everywhere in Italy.

Oh, and I'll claim my tourist card now - my wife insisted on ordering gnocchi alla gorgonzola on our first visit here. Not exactly traditional Venetian food. However, I had a couple of bites and they were good and not the kind you boil in a bag (but that first visit was 5 years ago).

OliverB

Do most people dress in black tie or is it more appropriate to wear a suit or separates (ie. sport coat, etc) ?

Also is October considered the "off-season" for most cultural events in Venice? It seems like there's not much going on at La Fenice while we're there.

OliverB

That's disappointing to read about Alle Testiere but especially Da Fiore. Could you elaborate please? What was your experience like at Da Fiore?

OliverB

Thanks so much! I take an enormous amount of pleasure in planning trips as it lends so much insight (geographically, culturally, historically) into each destination. In fact, half of the excitement for me is in the planning stages!

I'm sure we'll have a magical time and I'll be certain to post feedback (ristorantes e tutto!) along with many photos upon return.

VivoPerLei

I felt like Da Fiore was just going through the motions. It struck me as place that is there simply to cater to rich tourists, but without backing it up with extraordinary cooking. A fancy, exclusive place to dine, but lacking greatness. There's one in Rome that struck me exactly the same way. Had the 7 course tasting menu and there was nothing remarkable nor memorable about any of it. Ai Mercanti (same category of restaurant) presented a better all around experience, in my opinion. I tend to judge my restaurants a bit harshly though; you might eat at Da Fiore and have the meal of your life. Lots of reviews on TA that say just that.

As for Alle Testiere, we had a reservation for mid-evening and they were out of most everything. All they could offer was a mixed grill of the pieces they had left. Not particularly impressive for a restaurant that one survey said was the fifth best in all of Italy. Maybe they are a victim of their own success and having trouble handling the volume that comes with such good PR. Only thing I can say is, I would go the earlier in the evening the better and I'm guessing you'll have a better meal.

One more thing. Not going to re-read this thread from the beginning to see if you already have a reservation, but next time I go dining in Venice it will be to Quadri. Sounds great and not necessarily that much, if the experience is as good as it is reported.

One last thing - if you really want a fabulous meal, make a daytrip to Modena and eat lunch at Osteria Francescana. One of my best meals

Perche

You have to make sure you are at the right place. As mentioned upthread, in ore to capitali e in the name there are three restaurants with the name Da Fiore in it. One is the Michelin star place. The others are imposters of the worst kind. They serve frozen food, adverse being near San Marco, etc, which he real one is not. Probably 90% of the people who rate Da Fiore on TripAdvisor, should someone rely on that, probably didn't even know what restaurant they went to.

Alle Testiere cannot be overwhelmed by their volume. They only have nine tables, and it has been a sell-out every night sinc they were voted one of the 50 best restaurants in the world about 13 years ago. The same two guys run it.

Cafe Quadri, sure, but OP was looking for a place that is about the way Venetians eat. They have two prices: a 5 course menu for about $200, no substitutions, and a 7 course menu for about $300, no substitutions. The restaurant is owned by the same guys who own ale Calendre in Padua, which is always recognized as one of the best restaurants in Italy. They formed a group that bought Quadri a few years ago because it had gone to rot as a restaurant. A $300 7 course tasting menu, not including the cost of wine, is not the way a typical Veneziano goes out for dinner. It's great if that's OP's intention.

Osteria Francescana was just name best restaurant in the world, displacing the Spanish successors to perennial winner Nomo. It's in way out suburban Modena, which is too far away from staying near Piazza San Marco. Even f he takes the hours long train ride to Modena, he still couldn't get there without hiring a driver.

Non-NonRev

The season generally runs from December to November. There are about 3 each of Traviata and Elisir d'Amore in the first half of October, and the Italian premier of a new work, Il Medico di Pazzi, in the second half of the month. The latter is given at the Malibran, the theater that was used when the Fence was being rebuilt after the 1996 fire.

Perche

Actually, there is often not that much happening at La Fenice. They just don't stage that many operas. They do have a fair amount of symphonies and chamber music that you can sometimes catch. La Fenice has wonderful cozy rooms for chamber music. Also, don't overlook Teatro Malibran, as mentioned above. Not every Venetian can afford an opera ticket for 160 per seat at La Fenice. Malibran is sort of like the neighborhood opera house, where the locals go. Won't generally be showing huge stage productions, but I recently saw two wonderful operette on a program, one by Wolf, the other by Weill. Most people in the audience were in 7th heaven. A little less formal, as in during the break the crowd goes out to find a local place for a quick cicchetto and glass of wine, then head back in. La Fenice is great if schedule allows, a symphony there is also super, and chamber music, which will tend towards newer classical, is also worth it, but not the only game in town. Be careful with the boxes in La Fenice. No front row, you probably don't want it. Mostly obstructed view. Be careful with the seats.

VivoPerLei

Roger that, just relaying my experience. Ate at the proper Michelin star Osteria Da Fiore and was underwhelmed. Ate at Alle Testiere and they ran out of food that evening. He said his wife was interested in Quadra but he wasn't convinced. Sounds like he wants at least one very special fine dining experience, even if not typically Venetian.

By the way, I re-read your post 6 this morning several times and I believe you might have mistakenly referenced Osteria Da Fiore as being a tourist stop when you mention three Fiore's and something along the lines of 'everything but the latter' are tourist stops. Maybe you meant everything but the former? I was confused anyway, and if I'm wrong I apologize and will come back and correct this.

OliverB

Thanks. As there doesn't seem to be anything of particular interest happening at La Fenice over our dates, I suspect we'll probably stick with Palazzo Minotto and just tour La Fenice during the daytime. What's the typical etiquette for dress at the Palazzo; should I pack a tux or would I stand out?