New Venice Vaporetto Rules
Apr 8, 2016, 7:58 am
#1
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New Venice Vaporetto Rules
Everyone knows the love hate relationship between Venice and the tourists that crowd it. Over 20 million visitors to a city of 55,000, and most of them crowding Piazza San Marco and Ponte Rialto, making those neighborhoods the worst to stay. In many ways, the cities has been trying to clamp down on tourist behaviors, like making it a crime to feed pigeons in San Marco Square (Pigeons are the cities equivalent of rats. They poo all over the buildings, causing them to rot.). Tourist stand in the middle of narrow bridges, taking selfies with selfie sticks, or sit on the steps of the bridges and eat lunch, blocking things for residents. When I did live near Piazza San Marco I used to live with an old venetian lady who would just shove tourists out of the way, or swat at them if they were blocking her way by walking in large packs at the speed of zombies, blocking narrow alley ways. Just last weekend during Easter there were 300,000 visitors, overwhelming the small city (which is why you don't want to stay near San Marco).
Now, Venice is clamping down on tourists with respect to vaporetti. They are packed, and you find it hard to get on, and there will be no seats, at least except during December and January and February. You have to plan it out to get a nice one. About 7-8 years ago they started Venetian resident only vaporetti. You had to show your residence card, but it failed. Not enough vaporetti, so they had to make too many stops and the residents complained because there were only a few boats.
But the residents still hate the tourists and their behaviors. So starting in June, there will be priority access for venetians, and tourists will have to line up in a different line.
http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/201...tti-137075653/
"Primi i Veneziani poi i turisti: la rivoluzione dei vaporetti."
First venetians, then tourists: the revolution of the vaporettos.
It's not at all stops, but at the important ones.
"Da giugno accesso prioritario agli imbarcaderi per residenti e pendolari Sperimentazione in otto fermate. Il sindaco: "Cosě la cittŕ sarŕ piů vivibile."
From June, priority access at embarkation points for residents. Pending the same experiment at other vaporetto stops too. Said the mayor, "This way the city will be more livable."
"I turisti seduti con le loro valigie in braccio e noi costretti a restare in piedi".
A resident complained, "Tourists fitted with their luggage in their arms, and we are constricted to stand." The mayor went on to say that this is not fair to a venetian sweating in a factory on Murano, or a mother who needs to pick up her child at a nursery.
Then it says the the challenge will be alienating tourists by making them have to stand on an endless line, because they bring millions of dollars to the city. It also explains that Venice is in trouble with the european commission because it taxes and also charges visitors more than it charges venetians, which is against commission rules. For example, a vaporetto is 1.5 euros for a venetian, and 7.5 for a tourist.
I haven't flown into the airport since January, and also I have a resident card, but I've heard that they already instituted this at the airport, but I'm not sure. Even then it's a problem because a resident card alone won't get you in the priority lane, it has to be a resident gold card, meaning you live in certain areas where the tourist burden literally crushes the experience for everyone, such as around the Rialto Bridge, and I don't have that one because when in Venice I'm in Castello.
Now, Venice is clamping down on tourists with respect to vaporetti. They are packed, and you find it hard to get on, and there will be no seats, at least except during December and January and February. You have to plan it out to get a nice one. About 7-8 years ago they started Venetian resident only vaporetti. You had to show your residence card, but it failed. Not enough vaporetti, so they had to make too many stops and the residents complained because there were only a few boats.
But the residents still hate the tourists and their behaviors. So starting in June, there will be priority access for venetians, and tourists will have to line up in a different line.
http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/201...tti-137075653/
"Primi i Veneziani poi i turisti: la rivoluzione dei vaporetti."
First venetians, then tourists: the revolution of the vaporettos.
It's not at all stops, but at the important ones.
"Da giugno accesso prioritario agli imbarcaderi per residenti e pendolari Sperimentazione in otto fermate. Il sindaco: "Cosě la cittŕ sarŕ piů vivibile."
From June, priority access at embarkation points for residents. Pending the same experiment at other vaporetto stops too. Said the mayor, "This way the city will be more livable."
"I turisti seduti con le loro valigie in braccio e noi costretti a restare in piedi".
A resident complained, "Tourists fitted with their luggage in their arms, and we are constricted to stand." The mayor went on to say that this is not fair to a venetian sweating in a factory on Murano, or a mother who needs to pick up her child at a nursery.
Then it says the the challenge will be alienating tourists by making them have to stand on an endless line, because they bring millions of dollars to the city. It also explains that Venice is in trouble with the european commission because it taxes and also charges visitors more than it charges venetians, which is against commission rules. For example, a vaporetto is 1.5 euros for a venetian, and 7.5 for a tourist.
I haven't flown into the airport since January, and also I have a resident card, but I've heard that they already instituted this at the airport, but I'm not sure. Even then it's a problem because a resident card alone won't get you in the priority lane, it has to be a resident gold card, meaning you live in certain areas where the tourist burden literally crushes the experience for everyone, such as around the Rialto Bridge, and I don't have that one because when in Venice I'm in Castello.
Apr 8, 2016, 4:11 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
I wonder if they will make any allowance for disabled tourists. Without the waterboats, there really is no other way to get around the bridges. They make allowances with 1,50 euro tickets, but if the lines are endless, it really will affect things.
Apr 8, 2016, 6:57 pm
#4
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Very good question. I'll try to find out. Venice tries to be accomodating in that regard.
Apr 9, 2016, 9:44 am
#5
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The ACTV office says that they never heard anything about this. I told them it was in the newspaper. They said that they have no control over what the newspaper writes. I asked how I could get more information. They said to call the newspaper. I told them the newspaper already published the story, and they are quoting the mayor as saying this. They said, "We don't know, call the mayor's office." This is typical of Italy. I'll call the mayor's office on Monday when it opens again.
Apr 11, 2016, 9:13 pm
#6
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I spoke to the Mayor's secretary. She said she had no idea. I told her it was in the national newspaper, and they quoted the Mayor. She told me to call ACTV, the vaporetto agency. I told her I already did, they said they never heard anything about it, and told me to call the Mayor. The secretary then said she didn't think the Mayor knew, because they haven't work on the details. This is typical Italian bureaucracy in action.
Apr 12, 2016, 3:36 am
#7
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Did you find out about this so far? Any disabled tourists? Is proof of disability is needed (for example, blue handicapped logo) in order to pay the 1.50 euros instead of the 7.50 euros?
Apr 12, 2016, 7:31 am
#8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
I spoke to the Mayor's secretary. She said she had no idea. I told her it was in the national newspaper, and they quoted the Mayor. She told me to call ACTV, the vaporetto agency. I told her I already did, they said they never heard anything about it, and told me to call the Mayor. The secretary then said she didn't think the Mayor knew, because they haven't work on the details. This is typical Italian bureaucracy in action.
Apr 12, 2016, 9:36 am
#9
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
I don't think (but am not completely positive) that the wheelchair user needs to show up to buy the ticket -- a nondisabled person can do so, and they may even be sold by the ticket machines. There is no general ticket check when you board. So, the only issue would be if an inspector is on board, in which case I would think the wheelchair itself would serve as proof, but it probably wouldn't hurt to bring your blue handicapped placard.
As for how this new policy, if implemented, will affect the disabled, since Perche's inquiry has led to confusion whether there even is a policy, I suspect that there's no way to know at the moment.
Apr 13, 2016, 10:22 am
#10
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
I haven't done it personally, but from my research, the discounted tickets are limited to wheelchair users, so nonapparent disabilities probably will not qualify. I think the discounted fare is primarily intended to deal with the fact that most bridges are not ramped, so the waterbus is the primary method to permit those who cannot travel past barriers to move from island to island. Europe in general seems to be a bit different from the USA with respect to nonapparent disabilities, so if there were a nonapparent disability that prevented a person from crossing barriers, but the person did not have a wheelchair, I suspect unless you speak excellent Italian to be able to explain it to an inspector it would not work.
I don't think (but am not completely positive) that the wheelchair user needs to show up to buy the ticket -- a nondisabled person can do so, and they may even be sold by the ticket machines. There is no general ticket check when you board. So, the only issue would be if an inspector is on board, in which case I would think the wheelchair itself would serve as proof, but it probably wouldn't hurt to bring your blue handicapped placard.
As for how this new policy, if implemented, will affect the disabled, since Perche's inquiry has led to confusion whether there even is a policy, I suspect that there's no way to know at the moment.
I don't think (but am not completely positive) that the wheelchair user needs to show up to buy the ticket -- a nondisabled person can do so, and they may even be sold by the ticket machines. There is no general ticket check when you board. So, the only issue would be if an inspector is on board, in which case I would think the wheelchair itself would serve as proof, but it probably wouldn't hurt to bring your blue handicapped placard.
As for how this new policy, if implemented, will affect the disabled, since Perche's inquiry has led to confusion whether there even is a policy, I suspect that there's no way to know at the moment.
Apr 13, 2016, 11:18 am
#11
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
Apr 13, 2016, 4:26 pm
#12
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
But I don't know the answer to your question....so one way to find out is to go to Venice and see what happens. Maybe it depends on the employee on that day. Who knows? Do you live near Venice?
Apr 14, 2016, 9:33 am
#13
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I don't think you can find answers in the usual way. This is Italy. I just spent 20 minutes in the mayor's office. Even though the mayor made the announcement, his secretary said, "this is just an idea, we don't know how it will work." I told her I have two questions, one about whether someone in a wheelchair could skip the longer tourist lines that will start this June, and take the one for residents only. She said, "certainly." I asked how they would get the ticket for only 1.5 euros, just by it on board? She said no, if you buy it on board there is the possibility of a fine for boarding without a ticket. Buy it at the booth. I told her that not all stops have a booth, and when they do, the lines can be almost infinitely long, and then when you get to the machine they don't offer you different price tickets, for foreigners, residents, and residents in the gold zone, and usually there is no person to speak to, just a machine. She said that in Piazzale Roma, where the main booth is, there are people there who can sell the reduced price wheelchair ticket. I told her what about the people who live on the other side of the city? All the time, she kept looking things up in a large binder. No one seems to know the rules.
Then I asked about June, where it was in the newspaper that there will be separate lines for venetians living in the tourist zones, versus venetians living in Castello and foreigners. How does someone in a wheelchair get on? Can they just go to the shorter line? She said, "Of course!" I said, "But they won't have a ticket, can they just buy it on board?" She said, "But then there is the risk of a fine." I said, "So then, do they have to get on the long line for stranieri, foreigners, to buy the ticket, that's a hard thing for someone with a handicap." She said, "Of course not, go to the short line and explain the situation to them." I said that most of the booths at vaporetti stops are not manned. You just get on. There is no one to ask, until you are on board. She really didn't know. She kept saying, "Listen, this is just an idea, to have separate lines for foreigners. We don't know how it will go, or how we are going to do it, so I don't know."
My take on it is, you can't just get on a vaporetto without a ticket. If you do, you'll be fine most of the time. Just like getting on a bus in Rome. The authorities hardly ever come on board and ask to see your ticket. In fact, I've never seen them do it in Rome. But in Venice I've seen it happen enough. I saw a whole tour group of about 20 people get hauled off of a vaporetto because the tour guide couldn't produce a valid ticket for them all. Every now and then they just come on board and demand to see everyone's ticket. But these people are also very nice and human. I'd just get on board and when the guy on the vaporetto is closing the gate, say "I don't have a ticket." You can buy them on board. I think it costs about half a euro or a euro more. It can be better than waiting on a long line. You just have to tell the guy, "I don't have a ticket, and would like to buy one." Half the time, they won't even get around to selling you one before you get to your stop. But, it will keep you from getting fined if the authorities get on board and demand to see tickets.
And when you tell the guy, "I want to buy a ticket, I don't have one," just ask for the handicap discount. If you are in a wheelchair you will definitely only pay a reduced price. In fact, I think it's actually free, but I'm not positive. For less visible disabilities, I think you'd have a tough time getting the reduced price.
It's important to have a plan, because Italy in the summer is a very tough place to enjoy. Especially places like Venice and Florence. Look at these pictures from a week ago. Sure it was a holiday, but it gets much busier than it is on a holiday once you get into May-October. Picture 3 is the line for the vaporetto at the train station. The other pictures are also of vaporetto lines. This is why residents want their own line. The photos also show why Venice and Florence are not the places to visit during the summer. There are far better places to be in Italy at that time of the year. If you have to go to Venice just don't stay near San Marco, Rialto, or the train station. In Castello and parts of Dosoduro and Canareggio it is still sane, even in the summer.
http://foto.ilgazzettino.it/italia/t...ml?idArticolo=
Then I asked about June, where it was in the newspaper that there will be separate lines for venetians living in the tourist zones, versus venetians living in Castello and foreigners. How does someone in a wheelchair get on? Can they just go to the shorter line? She said, "Of course!" I said, "But they won't have a ticket, can they just buy it on board?" She said, "But then there is the risk of a fine." I said, "So then, do they have to get on the long line for stranieri, foreigners, to buy the ticket, that's a hard thing for someone with a handicap." She said, "Of course not, go to the short line and explain the situation to them." I said that most of the booths at vaporetti stops are not manned. You just get on. There is no one to ask, until you are on board. She really didn't know. She kept saying, "Listen, this is just an idea, to have separate lines for foreigners. We don't know how it will go, or how we are going to do it, so I don't know."
My take on it is, you can't just get on a vaporetto without a ticket. If you do, you'll be fine most of the time. Just like getting on a bus in Rome. The authorities hardly ever come on board and ask to see your ticket. In fact, I've never seen them do it in Rome. But in Venice I've seen it happen enough. I saw a whole tour group of about 20 people get hauled off of a vaporetto because the tour guide couldn't produce a valid ticket for them all. Every now and then they just come on board and demand to see everyone's ticket. But these people are also very nice and human. I'd just get on board and when the guy on the vaporetto is closing the gate, say "I don't have a ticket." You can buy them on board. I think it costs about half a euro or a euro more. It can be better than waiting on a long line. You just have to tell the guy, "I don't have a ticket, and would like to buy one." Half the time, they won't even get around to selling you one before you get to your stop. But, it will keep you from getting fined if the authorities get on board and demand to see tickets.
And when you tell the guy, "I want to buy a ticket, I don't have one," just ask for the handicap discount. If you are in a wheelchair you will definitely only pay a reduced price. In fact, I think it's actually free, but I'm not positive. For less visible disabilities, I think you'd have a tough time getting the reduced price.
It's important to have a plan, because Italy in the summer is a very tough place to enjoy. Especially places like Venice and Florence. Look at these pictures from a week ago. Sure it was a holiday, but it gets much busier than it is on a holiday once you get into May-October. Picture 3 is the line for the vaporetto at the train station. The other pictures are also of vaporetto lines. This is why residents want their own line. The photos also show why Venice and Florence are not the places to visit during the summer. There are far better places to be in Italy at that time of the year. If you have to go to Venice just don't stay near San Marco, Rialto, or the train station. In Castello and parts of Dosoduro and Canareggio it is still sane, even in the summer.
http://foto.ilgazzettino.it/italia/t...ml?idArticolo=
Apr 14, 2016, 9:49 am
#14
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
Thank you for all this effort, Perche. It is greatly appreciated.
Those pictures are a bit of a concern. I can see why local residents are angry -- if I had to face crowds like that just to get home from work or to buy some groceries, I would be pretty unhappy.
Those pictures are a bit of a concern. I can see why local residents are angry -- if I had to face crowds like that just to get home from work or to buy some groceries, I would be pretty unhappy.
Apr 14, 2016, 2:24 pm
#15
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
I don't think you can find answers in the usual way. This is Italy. I just spent 20 minutes in the mayor's office. Even though the mayor made the announcement, his secretary said, "this is just an idea, we don't know how it will work." I told her I have two questions, one about whether someone in a wheelchair could skip the longer tourist lines that will start this June, and take the one for residents only. She said, "certainly." I asked how they would get the ticket for only 1.5 euros, just by it on board? She said no, if you buy it on board there is the possibility of a fine for boarding without a ticket. Buy it at the booth. I told her that not all stops have a booth, and when they do, the lines can be almost infinitely long, and then when you get to the machine they don't offer you different price tickets, for foreigners, residents, and residents in the gold zone, and usually there is no person to speak to, just a machine. She said that in Piazzale Roma, where the main booth is, there are people there who can sell the reduced price wheelchair ticket. I told her what about the people who live on the other side of the city? All the time, she kept looking things up in a large binder. No one seems to know the rules.
Then I asked about June, where it was in the newspaper that there will be separate lines for venetians living in the tourist zones, versus venetians living in Castello and foreigners. How does someone in a wheelchair get on? Can they just go to the shorter line? She said, "Of course!" I said, "But they won't have a ticket, can they just buy it on board?" She said, "But then there is the risk of a fine." I said, "So then, do they have to get on the long line for stranieri, foreigners, to buy the ticket, that's a hard thing for someone with a handicap." She said, "Of course not, go to the short line and explain the situation to them." I said that most of the booths at vaporetti stops are not manned. You just get on. There is no one to ask, until you are on board. She really didn't know. She kept saying, "Listen, this is just an idea, to have separate lines for foreigners. We don't know how it will go, or how we are going to do it, so I don't know."
My take on it is, you can't just get on a vaporetto without a ticket. If you do, you'll be fine most of the time. Just like getting on a bus in Rome. The authorities hardly ever come on board and ask to see your ticket. In fact, I've never seen them do it in Rome. But in Venice I've seen it happen enough. I saw a whole tour group of about 20 people get hauled off of a vaporetto because the tour guide couldn't produce a valid ticket for them all. Every now and then they just come on board and demand to see everyone's ticket. But these people are also very nice and human. I'd just get on board and when the guy on the vaporetto is closing the gate, say "I don't have a ticket." You can buy them on board. I think it costs about half a euro or a euro more. It can be better than waiting on a long line. You just have to tell the guy, "I don't have a ticket, and would like to buy one." Half the time, they won't even get around to selling you one before you get to your stop. But, it will keep you from getting fined if the authorities get on board and demand to see tickets.
And when you tell the guy, "I want to buy a ticket, I don't have one," just ask for the handicap discount. If you are in a wheelchair you will definitely only pay a reduced price. In fact, I think it's actually free, but I'm not positive. For less visible disabilities, I think you'd have a tough time getting the reduced price.
It's important to have a plan, because Italy in the summer is a very tough place to enjoy. Especially places like Venice and Florence. Look at these pictures from a week ago. Sure it was a holiday, but it gets much busier than it is on a holiday once you get into May-October. Picture 3 is the line for the vaporetto at the train station. The other pictures are also of vaporetto lines. This is why residents want their own line. The photos also show why Venice and Florence are not the places to visit during the summer. There are far better places to be in Italy at that time of the year. If you have to go to Venice just don't stay near San Marco, Rialto, or the train station. In Castello and parts of Dosoduro and Canareggio it is still sane, even in the summer.
http://foto.ilgazzettino.it/italia/t...ml?idArticolo=
Then I asked about June, where it was in the newspaper that there will be separate lines for venetians living in the tourist zones, versus venetians living in Castello and foreigners. How does someone in a wheelchair get on? Can they just go to the shorter line? She said, "Of course!" I said, "But they won't have a ticket, can they just buy it on board?" She said, "But then there is the risk of a fine." I said, "So then, do they have to get on the long line for stranieri, foreigners, to buy the ticket, that's a hard thing for someone with a handicap." She said, "Of course not, go to the short line and explain the situation to them." I said that most of the booths at vaporetti stops are not manned. You just get on. There is no one to ask, until you are on board. She really didn't know. She kept saying, "Listen, this is just an idea, to have separate lines for foreigners. We don't know how it will go, or how we are going to do it, so I don't know."
My take on it is, you can't just get on a vaporetto without a ticket. If you do, you'll be fine most of the time. Just like getting on a bus in Rome. The authorities hardly ever come on board and ask to see your ticket. In fact, I've never seen them do it in Rome. But in Venice I've seen it happen enough. I saw a whole tour group of about 20 people get hauled off of a vaporetto because the tour guide couldn't produce a valid ticket for them all. Every now and then they just come on board and demand to see everyone's ticket. But these people are also very nice and human. I'd just get on board and when the guy on the vaporetto is closing the gate, say "I don't have a ticket." You can buy them on board. I think it costs about half a euro or a euro more. It can be better than waiting on a long line. You just have to tell the guy, "I don't have a ticket, and would like to buy one." Half the time, they won't even get around to selling you one before you get to your stop. But, it will keep you from getting fined if the authorities get on board and demand to see tickets.
And when you tell the guy, "I want to buy a ticket, I don't have one," just ask for the handicap discount. If you are in a wheelchair you will definitely only pay a reduced price. In fact, I think it's actually free, but I'm not positive. For less visible disabilities, I think you'd have a tough time getting the reduced price.
It's important to have a plan, because Italy in the summer is a very tough place to enjoy. Especially places like Venice and Florence. Look at these pictures from a week ago. Sure it was a holiday, but it gets much busier than it is on a holiday once you get into May-October. Picture 3 is the line for the vaporetto at the train station. The other pictures are also of vaporetto lines. This is why residents want their own line. The photos also show why Venice and Florence are not the places to visit during the summer. There are far better places to be in Italy at that time of the year. If you have to go to Venice just don't stay near San Marco, Rialto, or the train station. In Castello and parts of Dosoduro and Canareggio it is still sane, even in the summer.
http://foto.ilgazzettino.it/italia/t...ml?idArticolo=
Remember that I had mentioned that friend who has a disability? He came here to Venice at the right time because I told him it's better to come during spring, especially after Easter and before summer. The crowds weren't terrible....much much better than what I see in the photos. Fortunately, I finish my teaching in early June so there's no need for me to deal with the crowds and tourists in Venice during the summer.
I plan to go elsewhere other than major cities in Italy during the summer.