Help planning trip.
 

Hello "Italy"

Wanted to get some input for a "tour of Italy"

My daughter (2yrs 9mths), wife and I live in Zug, Switzerland. We will host my mother in law and brother in law for 3 weeks now at the end of June, beginning of July and wanted to show them a "good time".

They would like to go to Rome, and as a result, we decided to possibly do a "road trip" from Zug to Rome with several stopovers driving our own car, rather than flying or taking the train. It will probably be cheaper, and give us more flexibility all around. Is that correct to assume?

Initially, without much thoughts or knowledge, we were thinking:

Zug to Milan, spend a night or two there get to know around;
Milan to Firenze or Pisa, spend a night or two get to know around;
Firenze or Pisa to Rome spend a two or three nights there get to know around;
Rome to Venice - spend a night or two there...;
Venice to Como - spend a night;
Como to Zug.

Are those "good city pairs" to go to? is this the best way to route such trip? what other suggestions are better with maximum of 3-4 hours driving each leg? Is it safe to assume we can "just go" and find hotels on the fly without making previous reservations? (is end june/beg. july very busy season too?)

Well, all in all, again, we're flexible, and want to have something to please everyone: the mother in law (82yrs), the baby (almost 3), and the other 3 adults...

Thanks in advance for any pointers, suggestions.

Last but not least, should I buy the tollpass so we dont have to stop at toll booths?

Another last but not least: we can also go or come back via France or Austria and see some cities along the way if makes sense.. (again, all very open at this point...)

Is Pisa a must?! I wouldn't do it and if I wouldn't stay there.

BTW: where do you want to stay? Hotels, motels etc. Do you prefer some special hotel group?

Telepass: www.telepass.it

written like a true midwesterner. there is really no place to drive or park in venice,milan, florence, pisa, rome. not familiar with como. this has been pointed out many times. one can probably get some form of a train pass.

there are a large number of small towns scattered throughout italy that allow driving and parking. for the 82yo, plan on using a driver, or cabs(i am 78, and use a driver most of the time)

No, Pisa is not a must. I just figured it would be one of those things easy for them to go back home and say "they saw it"...

I guess because we're trying to do without much pre-booking, anywhere safe and decent should be okay (B&B, motel, hotel for the one night places) In Rome and or Venice, if I'm going to be more than one night, then I would like a little bit better hotel (chain indifferent, although I havw some points and status with BW)

I looked at their page, but was not certain if I can order one for a short trip, if it costs too much in addition to the toll itself, and if they will sell it for a non Italian bank account/credit card holder)

The idea is not to take trains, as it is more expensive than driving and less practical (more restrictive, times, etc...)

At the end of the day, will this be doable, or a fiasco because:

Most of the places you want to visit will save you money by driving, but you'll pay for it on the back end with your time, longer walking distances and the inevitable ZTL traffic ticket. I highly suggest trains for these cities unless you know what you're doing.

I'd probably suggest skipping Milan, or just keeping it to a stopover before getting on the next train. Florence for 3 nights, Rome for 4-5, Venice for 3, as much time as you want at Como before going back home. Skip Pisa if it's a first time trip - it's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't go out of my way for it.

Depending on the mobility of your MIL and toddler, you might adjust or remove Rome entirely. There is no way around doing a LOT of walking in that city. It's beautiful, but very little is clustered together. I'd suggest adding some additional time to Florence and Venice if mobility is an issue, since it's a smaller historic center and can all be walked. In this same line of thought, you should take the train to Venice. You can't take a car there, but the train goes all the way to Santa Lucia, the main train station on the island. You can walk from there, provided that a few steps aren't an issue (to cross bridges).

We spent a week last year in Florence with my daughter who was 18 months at the time. We're going back there for another week this fall now that she's 3. That's a good, compact city if mobility is an issue. The downside is that it will be swarmed with tourists in June and July - I personally don't visit Italian cities between June and September, but that's my preference and I don't really enjoy crowds. On the other hand, my honeymoon was in July, and covered Rome, Florence and Venice, and we still had a nice time, so it's not impossible, just hotter and more crowded.

June/July are absolutely high season. Reserve hotels in advance.

I did quite well picking up a rental car in Rome and dropping it some days later in Florence - only 3 tickets (1 Rome, 2 Florence) for driving in forbidden zones. But that still may be cheaper albeit stressful.

As for Como, you will definitely want a car there, and I would recommend staying north of the City in one of the many lovely places on the lake. Give it at least two nights, if not three.

the best way to do car in florence and venice is to rent, pick it up in that city, and drop it off before you do an overnight. car insurance in italy is extremely expensive.

If you would like to economize by driving, then you really need to re-orient your thinking on where you are staying. You need to stay in smaller towns/villages in the region or in the suburbs where you don't have to navigate a ZTL to get there, parking is free and lodging somewhat cheaper.

Relative to ZTL's, Milan is reasonable, Florence is not - stay away unless you have lodgings inside the ZTL, Rome's is navigable if you know Rome but if you don't watch out.

Personally, I would stay outside of Florence but where you could daytrip in if you wanted. Local train is not expensive and Florence is a pretty easy city to walk. There are plenty of interesting places nearby.

salwecki just nailed it for you. Rental seems like a pretty good idea if you really want to drive.

However, it really is difficult to find parking in Rome especially most of the attractions are among shopping squares. It would be easier with a Fiat Uno (just squeezing in between the other sedans) but the cost would be the comfort of your journey...

I had a friend who had made a down payment for his car rental in Florence the card he made reservation on was not accepted on-site after he landed to pick up the car. Due to his card being a debit card or something... His backup card was Amex and the rental service did not accept Amex too... Make sure to ask about payment forms if you do rent a car - just in case!

You really should as what many others have mentioned, pre-book your accommodation as your travelling period is peak period. Milan will be a bit expensive as on top of peak, the city is hosting the expo till end October....

I can understand why you would want to drive with an elderly and a child with you... but really, trains are better.

Hope you find a good idea soon!

Thank you everyone for pitching in and helping with suggestions, pointers and tips. Really a lot to take in and while sorting it all out, here’s what comes to mind:

Rome is the only must in this trip. I can’t really take it out. We will just have to go “slowly” (so kid and grandma can tag along)… The other locations I added to the trip, as a way to avoid driving from Zug (Switz.) to Rome for 8-9hours straight. (and back)

I own a car here in Switz., and have full coverage insurance for Switzerland and most of Europe (Italy included) so, I don’t need to rent a car, and that is why is cheaper driving than taking the train (or flying)

When I begun thinking about this trip, I had not realized about the (ZTL)“no driving in big cities” but, as JMN57 points out, we can certainly stay away from there and still have a good time/experience as our main goal is Rome. (what 2-4 places should we look for that helps breaking the trip going there and coming back? - and those need pre booking too?)

In Rome, will my car GPS tell me where I can and cannot drive, or not really? Will put me thru ZTL? (I have a 2014 map installed) …


Ok, so here’s an updated question: What should one do, for driving from Zug to Rome and back. (I would say one or two breaks each way so it’s a 2-4 hours drive each day/leg rather than two 5 hour drives? In a way where we can avoid the TLZ and still just park the car in Rome’s hotel and use tour buses/public transp. While there? Is this a better plan? Def. will book hotel in Rome, but for the smaller cities where we will stop, maybe just try our luck? Or even in these smaller cities I should book something?

rome was built on 7 hills. all are up hill. some are pretty big hills. plan on taking taxi to and from stuff in rome with the toddler and elderly. i'm 78 now, and the hills look steeper than ever..

In Rome, I'd say find where you want to stay and see if you can get some parking and ZTL advice from the hotel. At least in Florence, if your destination is within the ZTL, the hotel can call your plates into the police ahead of time so they let you through. I imagine there's something similar in Rome. That way you can drive to the hotel if they offer parking. Not all hotels do, so if you want to park at the hotel, research that, or decide if you're ok parking outside the center a bit and taking a cab or public transportation in. I just googled a few hotels - the St. George doesn't have parking. The Westin does, but it starts at 44 EUR/day (small cars) and goes up to 71 for larger. Have a closer look at parking rates and what you're willing to pay - depending on how long you stay, you really might be in the ballpark of a train ride.

For smaller cities, you may be able to just park in the city itself, or very near it.

Maybe I'm overthinking this.

That's a lot of cities in what seems to be about a 10 day trip. Here are some things to ponder.

I would skip Milan. It's not one of the nicer cities in Italy to visit and on a short trip would be a waste of a day or two. While train is the best way to travel, when exploring the gorgeous countryside a car is the only way, and it will probably be less expensive. But cars in any of the cities would be a bad idea.

Can you make it to Venice, about 5 and a half hour by car, and drop off the car there? By driving through Sud Tirol you'd get the taste of Austria you have an interest in, and it's a great drive at that time of the year. There is no point in driving a car in Florence because you aren't allowed into the city with a car. After a few days in Venice, a train to Florence is just a few hours, and it's not such a nice drive anyway. After a few days in Florence, it's just a few hours by train to Rome, and it's also not a scenic drive.

You don't want a car in Lake Como. You get from town to town on beautiful little ferries, so you are enjoying being on the water, rather than driving around the water on roadways and highways. Instead, when ready to leave Rome rent your car and drive up through Tuscany and see the countryside, dropping the car off in Milan, perhaps seeing Bologna, Modena, Parma in Emiglia-Romagna on the way up. Milan to Como is a 45 minute, 3 euro train ride to Varenna on Lake Como, then explore the Como lakeside towns, not missing Bellagio, a five minute ferry ride away, and Menaggio. Then train back to Milan, rent a car, and drive home.

The OP stated in the original post that they would be "driving our own car."

So the comments about renting, etc are a little off base. Yes, tolls and gas aren't cheap but compared to train/plane for 4 adults and a child it is not a bad deal.

Yes, they will take some time to do the drive but for some (I know for me) driving around a new country can be enjoyable.

Take my word for it, I doubt your GPS has ZTL's identified. Google maps doesn't and finding the boundaries of a city's ZTL online is often a difficult task. And driving around, the sign is very subtle. In many situations locals can go into the ZTL so if you follow other traffic, you are nailed. For Rome, I would certainly find a hotel that is outside of the ZTL and take public transport into town. If you are working on a budget, that will probably lead to better lodging costs anyhow. Alternatively, find a safe place where you could park the car and just drive there from the hotel and then take public transportation.

In the 90's my wife and I were traveling with her parents through Italy, France and Spain. We rented a car and drove from Rome to Madrid, stopping at a number of places on the way. We stayed off the beaten path and paid little for some very nice accommodations. Outside of Rome, we stayed in Albano Laziale near Gandolfo (where the pope's summer place is) and Ariccia (which is famous for porchetta). We stayed in a converted convent or monastery (can't remember which) and the rooms were nice and inexpensive. Coming in, the local ragazzi were playing cards in the bar late at night - quite charming. It's only 30 km to Vatican City.

Florence is great but really the Italians like to escape the cities in the summer for a reason. Stay in Tuscany, train in for a day to look around. There's lots of great places in Tuscany Siena, San Gimignano, Lucca, Montepulciano...). Stay in an agriturismo and eat the local food. Truly, Italian cities are great but mixing it with some of the country will give you and your in-laws a much richer experience than hitting the "must see" list of places/cities.

If this sounds preachy, apologies but I do think you can drive around Italy and have a fabulous time doing it and at a reasonable price if you take advantage of the mobility the car brings you.

No problem to drive around Italy, in fact is the way to go for a party of 4.
You'll enjoy the real country and each region's countryside own flavor.

Just don't push it into major city centers, as said.
Little homework will get you great rewards. Look for some park and ride ("parcheggio di interscambio") generally found in the outskirts or highway exits and connect onto a tram/bus/train to the center.
Once there you can do pretty much you need by foot or on a short taxi ride for the elder relative.
No Italian city is so large to make a car really necessary, at least by a visitor point of view.
Rome is particularly car unfriendly, perpetually clogged due its urban structure, insufficient public transport and social habit for which everything beyond 300mt. walk is considered Everest climbing worthy effort.
No to mention the hefty parking fees (by the hour) along the city streets. So...a car in Rome is no-no.

OP has stated they will be driving their own car and that Rome is a must do. I'm really trying to come up with something that will make Rome with a car as hassle-free as possible. It'd be a lot easier to stay in a hotel near the center, but it's a matter of finding cheap parking further out, near public transport, to get in. I have family in Rome, but none of them have cars, so they're no help.

Here's some possible options for Rome.

There are lots near Roma Ostiense, looks like under 10 EUR a day, but I've never done it. Can't vouch for the safety of the lot. Easy access to rail into the center, as well as the highway.

Park at the FCO economy lot for ~10 EUR a day. Shuttle to terminals, Leonardo Express to Termini. It might be a little far out, but it's cheap and with direct access to the train. Relatively secure (airport parking) and close to the highway.

Here's a list of parking lots: http://www.060608.it/en/trasporti/parcheggi

Arriving from north the #10 adjoining the Auditorium concert hall might be of OP's interest.

thanks...
 

Everyone, much thanks for all the strong information provided by each and everyone of you, thanks.

After going back and forth with wife, brother and mother in law, we have made the following decision:

We will fly from Basel airport to Rome on easyjet. Stay in Rome for 3 nights - 4 days. It will be be "easier" on the baby and mother in law, so we don't spend countless hours in and out of the car.

It was not my choice, I would rather drive around and get to know many cities, but, as said, Rome was non negotiable, and they were all fine with going "just" to Rome.

So we're driving from Zug to Basel Airport and leaving our car parked there, its relatively cheap (50-60chf) for the entire 4 days. (taking a train there would be very expensive for all of us...) and it is best to fly from there than ZRH because its a cheaper overall price (would be 900chf for us all from ZRH and will be only 505chf from basel), also I rather not fly an embraer, and last but not least, i like the times offered better too.. so win win in that scenario.

Now, I am off to researching the best transfer options from the airport to a hotel, and a hotel itself. Would be great if its very child oriented, and or close to a playground for kids and the vatican.. i guess I can find tons of info, and will start my research on it tonight...

Thanks again everyone for all the input. Didn't turn out to be how I wanted, but as most of you pointed out, It seems better/cheaper to do this way than my way...

I understand not wanting to spend long hours in the car. I just want to say that the driving restricted zones are easy to avoid. I went to Italy last summer and rented a car. I drove from Rome to Ravenna to Venice to (eventually) Florence and back to Rome. I had hotels in restricted zones. At each hotel except Venice (where I parked in one of the parking garages), the hotel alerted the police with my license plate number and so I avoided tickets. The only near call I had was in Rome returning the rental car. The return wasn't clearly marked and the gps said it was a left turn, which was marked as restricted. So I turned right thinking I'd find a parking place and look on foot and saw the return just down the road (on the right).

So, don't be put off by scares about the restricted zones.

tour suggestion
 

Hello everyone,

Trip time almost here, wanted to get some quick input on tour suggestions for the Vatican. Anyone has a good operator, or some other suggestion, please? ideally in Portuguese.

thanks

how much did each garage cost?