floridagal23

We hopped on the emirates deal and are only going to be in Italy due to work schedules for a Thursday through Monday mid-day. Our plan right now is to end up in Milan sometime on Sunday and stay over until Monday. That leaves us part of Thursday, Friday, and Saturday to spend in the lakes area. We may go to Lugano for part of a day.

We are in our 30s, no kids, and enjoy things like wine, walking around staring at scenery, and delicious restaurants. We are hoping to not rent a car so staying somewhere for the 3 nights that we can walk to dinner or take a quick taxi to dinner or drinks seems like it should be a consideration.

What part of the area should we stay in? We were going to book Grand Hotel Tremezzo but then we were told that we won't be able to get back to our hotel by ferry if we go to dinner elsewhere. It looks like the last ferry could potentially be in the 6pm range? We don't want to be stuck at the hotel for dinner all 3 nights. We were told not to stay in Como, too touristy. How about Bellagio?

As far as hotels, we would probably prefer a 5 star but I am also posting on the luxury board for some recs. Thanks!

Djlawman

What time of year are you going to be there?

floridagal23

Late April. Right now, we're set to stay in Bellagio. I assume the towns (restaurants, shops) and ferries will be somewhat open at this point if the tourist season runs April - October. We'll really only have 1.5 days in the lake area and then our day trip to Lugano, so it seems that this is a good base.

Perche

I question why you would want to make a day trip to Lugano from Bellagio. Perhaps family or some particular site to visit. Lugano is just another city on Lake Como, except that unlike picturesque Bellagio, it's a large industrial city of well over 120,000 people. It's like spending 1.5 days in beautiful La Jolla California and slicing off a day for a side trip to Riverside california.

I know some people who have done this because they like to feel as if thy went on vacation to Italy and Switzerland. However, Lugano is really Italy. They moved the Swiss-Italian border a mile or two after WW2 in some land swap in the name of defensible borders. In Lugano the food is italian. They speak italian. In fact Lugano is the largest city with the most native italian speakers outside of Italy itself.

To leave beautiful Bellagio just to go to Lugano is an unusual choice. The only thing that is not italian about Lugano is that they use the franc, not the euro, so you basically pay double for everything. You probably have a good reason to go there, but I hope you are aware that it is not to experience Switzerland, except in name only.

SanDiego1K

That is a great word picture. My compliments to you.

Forstbetrieb

Sorry, but Lugano is not part of Lake Como and it was never part of Italy and even not part or the lombardia in the last 500 - 600 years.

Perche

You are right that you have to cross a little land at Menaggio, and small Lago di Piano, so it's not technically on the same lake, it's separated by a small spit of land, but it's basically another italian lake town.

Its provenance can be debated as Italy itself only became a country in 1861, so no place could have been a part of Italy before 1861. Most places there were independent states or fiefdoms, but for most of its modern history Lugano was ruled by the Duke of Milan in Lombardia. That didn't end until Napolean took it over and declared it to be part of Switzerland, just as he took over Venice and declared it to be a part of Austria.

You make a good point though, when the dust settled, Venice became a part of Italy, and Lugano became part of Switzerland. However, because it was always Italian, Lugano's newspaper has been published in Italian since the 1700's, published I think by the same family that a few centuries later started FIAT.

After WW2 Italy had to give up a lot of what it claimed was their's including Lugano, Trieste, and what is now parts of France. Italy may have claimed it during WW2, but you are right, maybe they didn't really own it after Napoleon took it away. But it is still Italian through and through.

I think about a third of the workers in Lugano live in italy in the Lake Como region for tax purposes, and commute over there to work. Lugano has its charms, but it's basically a big Italian city.

I personally wouldn't do a day trip to go there and convert euros to francs to buy a pizza or a pasta in an italian restaurant, cooked by an italian commuter from Lake Como, at twice the price.

Perche

"The town's thriving economy provides an estimated 38,000 jobs, over a third of which are occupied by cross-border commuters. Business, tourism and finance constitute the backbone of the local economy.....In 2000, the tertiary sector offered 90% of all jobs in Lugano, of which 75% were occupied by commuters, many of which commute from neighbouring Italy....Most of the population speaks Italian (80.3%), with German being second most common (7.1%) and Serbo-Croatian being third (2.7%)."

Forstbetrieb, you are right about Lugano not being physically on the same lake as Bellagio. Maybe it will be after a few more years of global warming.

JClasstraveller

If you want 5 star in Bellagio there's only 1 option, the Villa Serbelloni. It's pretty grand. The restaurant there, Mistral, has a Michelin star (or used to).

I haven't stayed there but I have eaten at Mistral and it was worth its star. It was 3 years ago so my advice ought be subject to that caveat.

Bellagio is a touristy place I'm afraid but it is beautiful. It's overrun by a lot of day trippers. The food isn't that good generally I found (other than Mistral) with some of the trattorias being a bit disappointing. It's worth staying there and then exploring other places around the lake by ferry.

I note you haven't looked at Lake Maggiore or Garda. Are you set on Lake Como?

Perche

The Serbelloni is certainly spectacular. Going quaint is another way to go. I prefer to stay in Varenna, the adjacent town on the lake, about a 5 minute ferry ride away. That is mainly because as you say, Bellagio is too touristy. What I think will help OP is that she is going in April. I expect it will be fairly empty. And also cold. It won't be overrun at that time of the year.

I also agree with you completely about the food. That pertains to Italy in general in the touristy cities, from Rome upwards. Almost nobody is serving good food to tourists whom they will see once in their life. It doesn't make economic sense because the tourists will come anyway, and because no matter what they eat, even if its an italian TV dinner, those tourists will go home and rave that it was the best italian food they ever ate.

Next door to Bellagio in Varenna, Cavatappi is an excellent restaurant. During the high season you'd have to get reservations a year in advance. Only 8 tables, and each gets only one seating per night. You generally eat better in Varenna because the tourism focuses on Bellagio. However, since OP is going in April that is an opportunity to stay in Bellagio, probably the prettiest town of them all, before the tourism will have kicked in.

You are so right, be very wary about the food in Bellagio, as in Rome, Venice, Florence, Positano, and all other towns known for tourism because even though the tourists will not yet be there, if a restaurant exists to serve touristic food, that's not going to change just because it is in April.

ckendall

One more word about Lugano; I go there every few months and it is a pleasant enough place but probably not worth going to unless you have to (like I do). There is a nice lake front and a museum or two and some high fashion shopping (as noted prices in Swiss francs so probably too expensive unless there is a huge sale).

An even odder place is nearby "Campione d'Italia" an Italian enclave inside Switzerland. I have eaten there a few times at nice restaurants (not recently) but at least the prices are in Euros. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campione_d%27Italia

Perche

One more word (hopefully), the star system for hotels is completely different in Italy. I know that people have discussed it before. The number of stars has nothing to do with the quality of a hotel. Stars are very strictly regulated legally, and they only have to do with the amenities.

A two star hotel can be better than a five star hotel. As far as I know, Italy is unique in that way. Not only that, different regions of Italy have regulated different star systems, so a five star in one place can be worse than a three star hotel in the next town.

For example, you cannot be a five star hotel if you do not have 24 hour reception. This has nothing to do with quality. You can have a grumpy old italian guy who cannot speak english, asleep at the desk but he's there all night. That gets you a star.

You get another star if you have one bathroom for every three rooms. This might mean something to people who don't mind sharing their bathroom with strangers.

You get another star depending on whether the linen is changed every day, or every three days.

This can all add up to horrible 5 star hotels, and 2 star places that are a paradise.

I think it has been mentioned many times on this forum that the star system in Italy is different. It is not a sign of quality. For example, you get a star if you have an elevator. Many historic, wonderful places don't need or can't have an elevator, so they can never be five star. That doesn't make them worse than the Howard Johnson type of place with fresh linen everyday, an elevator, and an in-suite bathroom.

The hotel star system in Italy has no parallel to anywhere else, as far as I know.

Giggleswick

I agree that Lugano isn't the most appealing place to visit, but FWIW, this misstates its history. As Frostbetrieb said, it hasn't been under the rule of Lombardia since the early 16th century, when Ticino became part of the Swiss Confederation. Napoleon did make some border changes when he set up the Helvetic Republic, but that's not when Lugano became Swiss. Neither did it become Swiss only after WWII.

Borders throughout Europe have naturally changed countless times over the centuries, but if you want to go totally by a city's history and/or language, I guess that would mean that Geneva is French, Antwerp is Dutch (or maybe even Spanish!), Gdansk is German, etc.

Anyway, this is all possibly OT for the sake of itinerary planning, but if anybody cares about the history, it sets it a bit straighter.

BTW, Lugano sits on its very own lake. Bellagio is closer to Lake Lugano than Lugano is to Lake Como, though Lake Como is, of course, much larger than Lake Lugano.

Perche

I agree with your post. History and borders are fluid, and often depend on who is telling the story. As you said, borders change. During fascism, many areas with majority speakers quickly changed their patriotism. It's why you go to Alto-Adige in Italy but everyone speaks German, and calls it Sud Tirol. Post WW2 borders are not necessarily historical. A lot has to do with whose version of history you are reading. It seems to me that Lugarnese consider themselves to be Italian, but I concede the point.

It seems that most agree; Lugano is a very large italian speaking and italian eating city that cannot compare to Bellagio; you would have to portage your kayak from one lake to another, or put it on the hood and drive a little to get from one lake to the other. I stand corrected on that.

It is true that it seems that you encounter mainly Italian commuters. I also think that a lot of people throw in Lugarno on top of their Lake Como trip thinking that they are getting to visit two different countries on one trip. It's actually like visiting New York, and stepping a foot into New Jersey. The accent changes a little, but it's hard to tell the difference.

Caronahill

Have to agree. Much better IMO to spend more time on Lake Como. Plenty to do from boat trips to Como from Bellagio and elsewhere and, of course, relaxing!