Planning panic
 

My wife and I have never been to Italy, but we're going to visit our daughter in Bonn in June, so that's our departure point. Plan to spend a week with her in Germany and then 8 or more days in Italy. In general, we plan for 2-3 days in Rome, 2 in Venice and 2 in Tuscany or Florence, and we also would like to do one night in Salzburg. But we have flexibility in how long we stay (because we don't have a return flight scheduled yet, hoping for LH FC to open up).

I could really use some pro advice on general direction and method of travel before planning the nitty-gritty details. Leaving Bonn (or Frankfurt) on Friday afternoon/evening, would someone recommend we start with Rome, and then proceed northwards? Or start in Salzburg, then Venice, then southward toward Rome, or some different combination of the above. Use overnight train to/from Rome, or Salzburg, or Venice, or fly? Make Salzburg a completely separate trip? Fly from Rome to Venice. We had planned to take trains within Italy, but uncertain about the destinations that are at the peripherals of our journeys. Was planning to take overnight train from Frankfurt to Rome (3 of us), but daughter's German friends laugh and say we should just fly.

We normally have our trips planned out in great detail months in advance, but I'm panicking now because this trip is not because of intense time pressure/constraints this spring. The options/considerations are overwhelming and takes time to sort through them all (just choosing a rail pass or point-to-point is mentally taxing to one who's not been there before). So any suggestions or recommendations would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks for any and all help.

The panic comes from trying to fit in too much. The most common mistake in travel is jumping from city to city every day or every other day, and spending too much time packing, unpacking, and traveling from place to place, instead of enjoying things. The words "stress/panic" and "vacation" should not be in the same paragraph.

My suggestion is if you want to visit Germany/Austria, then see Bonn, Salzburg, and Vienna. If you want to see Italy, forget Salzburg. Salzburg is fabulous, but you just can't do it all.

Salzburg, Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Rome, in 8+ days is no vacation. It is madness.

Consider flying from Bonn to Venice. I agree with your daughter's friends, the train ride from Bonn is too long. It would kill a whole day. After a few days in Venice hop on a train to Rome, and spend the rest of your time there. With only eight days, Venice and Rome is about all that you can do. And, you will be at each place long enough to get a feel for them, with time to wander the back streets, not just rushing in and out of hotels.

I would panic trying to squeeze Salzburg, Venice, Florence/Tuscany, and Rome into 8+ days. Venice and Rome are spectacular enough to warrant your 8 days. You can always throw in a day trip if you want, such as a 1.5 day stop over in Florence on the way to Rome.

Anything more in just 8 days is not advisable. You will be skimming the surface of everything, but not really seeing or getting to know any place.

Agree with Perche. And, while Salzburg is nice (I like it), the ratio of time going/leaving relative to the time spent there and what there is to see/do in Salzburg does not warrant doing it as a stop on the way.

Totally agree about not trying to do too much. My only suggestion is that, if you are into art, consider replacing Venice with Florence. There's great art in both, of course, but nothing beats the Uffizi

You should make your decision quickly. Good hotels are hard to find in June. The best in Italy are not ten story 500 room giant Hilton like structures. They are quite small, and sell out quickly in June. If you want nice accommodations close to the main sites and not on the outskirts of town, I'd book ASAP.

correct advice. if you "love renasannace art" you will love uffizi. otherwise, it is a disappointment. the lines and crowds are huge.

might check australiann air. they have some great specials into vienna. you may get lucky when you are trying to get to vienna.

Agree. If you do decide to spend more than a day in Florence, which I recommend only if you are really able to appreciate art, make sure you google how to avoid the lines at the Uffizi. Otherwise you will be standing in a long, hot unruly line for hours, and then get rushed through endless corridors of paintings. If supreme art is what you want, Florence has it. But it's not for everyone.

Yes - there are express ways into the Uffizi - a good hotel with a concierge can arrange that. It is a much nicer experience to show up at an appointed time and just enter.

OK, so I'll try to convince my wife to take Salzburg off the list. And we could extend the trip to 10 days for Italy. While I would like to see the different Magi paintings and Rembrandt's self-portraits, the Uffizi is not a must-see, especially if it takes hours. We're more fans of architecture and churches than paintings and sculptures. On the other hand, wondered if the DaVinci LS was worth trying to see in Milan?

On lodging, we do both points reservations and smaller stays, but finding the latter seems hit and miss. A suggestion on where to look for lodging in Italian towns?

Venice is a must, as is Rome, but that's about it. Maybe we should try to get in the Tuscany countryside rather than Florence.

And still — north to south, or vice-versa? Frankfurt to Rome, or Frankfurt to Venice? I think we'll probably fly either to or from Rome, although overnight on sleeper train sounded like a bit of experience to me, and would avoid one hotel night.

If you want to do Tuscany, that does not preclude a day on Florence as well. The Tuscan countryside may require a car though. One place that is well situated for northern Tuscany and Florence would be http://www.villailpoggiale.it/
in San Casciano val di Pesa (basically one exit south of Florence on the road to Siena. It's offers good access to Florence (although with the ZTL now, one can't just do the easy drive in and I don't know what the public transport options are from San Casciano to Florence are), Siena, San Gimignano and Lucca. The towns are a bit of a drive but not unreasonable.

The villa is pretty nice with a range of rooms in terms of luxury vs. basic.

Definitely skip Milan. There's enough to see in Venice and Rome without wasting a day just to see the LS.

Bonn to Venice is 12 hours by train, and wastes a day. There is a 15 hour night train but it's not a non-stop. You have to change trains in Cologne and in Munich. Waiting on a train platform at 3AM is not a great experience. Flying from Bonn to Venice you can then take a train to Florence, make it your base and do a day trip to Sienna, another to San Gemignano. Then continue by train to Rome and leave from there. If you want to see the Tuscan country side then as JMN57 said, you will need a car. Your itinerary will start getting packed and complicated, because anywhere but in the countryside a car in Italy is a liability. You said you've never been to Italy before, so I'd keep it simple. Three days in Venice, two in Florence, with one used for a side trip to Siena. The remaining five days in Rome, with perhaps a side trip to Orvieto or Ostia Antica. That's plenty busy for a first timer. No cars, nor rush, no real hassle, as long as you can get a decent hotel on this very short notice. If you want to stay in small towns you'll need a car.

Just finished a 6-day trip to Italy 3 weeks ago. Day 1 - Milan, Day 2,3 - Verona, Day 4 - Florence, Day 5,6 - Rome.

I agree with others that you should concentrate on two cities - too much moving of luggage and travelling is a pain.

You could spend weeks in Rome and not see half. Plus, I think the variety is better - museums, Vatican City, ancient ruins, etc.

If you don't mind the AirBNB route, we stayed at this place and it was well located, very friendly hosts and reasonably priced: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/835940

We loved Verona and the variety of things to see (castle, arena, theater, shopping) is very good.

I think the advice to skip Milan is good as well. The Duomo and shopping is fantastic but other cities are going to give you a more enjoyable experience I think.

If you book train travel, don't use Rail Europe, book directly through Trenitalia or another rail service.

Good luck with your trip!

Perche already posted most of what I was going to say. Take it easy and enjoy a vacation, not a dash across Italy. If it's your first time and you have 8-10 days, do you have the option to fly home from the last city you visit, or do you need to backtrack to Bonn first? If not, I'd suggest just moving up or down the rail corridor in Italy as your schedule permits. Fly into VCE, spend 3 days in Venice, then get on the Freccia to Rome and spend the remainder there, fly home from FCO. Or the reverse.

I'm a big fan of Florence, such that I just spent 8 days there. It is in between Venice and Rome on the rails. If you have 10 days, doing 2 in Florence might be nice, but think about whether you really want to do the whole luggage/cab/unpack/repack for 1 night at a hotel. I'd skip it unless you could make it 3 days.

For Rome, I'd say 4 days minimum if you really want to see and experience it. Otherwise, it's just a dash from place to place. Rome is more spread out than Venice or Florence, so covering it all in a day or two is tough unless you're really just running around with a checklist.

Ultimately, just don't expect to do it all in any one city. My first time to Italy worked out that way. Our return visits and plans have been 1 city for 7-10 days. But still, don't stretch yourself too thin or you won't have any idea what you even want to go back and revisit.