Perche

I use the train a lot here in Italy. The lines to buy a ticket at a booth are excruciating. It could be a half hour to an hour wait. The lines at the ticket machines are zero to a few minutes. I have the AA Executive Citicard. The machine always asks for a PIN, and I don't have one. So I have to go to the line and wait to buy a ticket at the booth.

I've kept saying to myself that I'm going to call Citi and get the PIN. I just did. They told me their card has a chip, but no PIN. The only PIN they can provide is for use at an ATM machine, which I don't want. It won't work in any other type of machine except for an ATM.

This can be a serious blow to plans. I was in a small town recently, and there was no booth. Just machines. The machines also take cash, and I had enough cash on me, but buying two train tickets for 63 euros each is not a small matter. I don't always have that much cash on me. Plus, if you put in three 50's, the machine can't give 24E change back. A sign says that it can't give more than 10E change, as I recall. If I didn't have the cash on me I would have missed the train, and as a result, would have missed my plane.

I just wanted to let Italy travelers know that if they have the AA Advantage Executive card, there can be this problem, and it can cause you to miss a train, or not be able to take a train at all if there is no booth at that particular station, unless you can find an ATM in time to get enough cash.

I have a suspicion that this problem is not specific to the AA credit card, and may also occur with other chip cards, and that's why I'm posting it here. It can seriously mess up your plans if you have to wait on line to get to the booth to buy a ticket, or if you don't want to deplete your euros and have to go to an ATM machine and pay another ATM foreign withdrawal fee. I would check your card, and this might be a factor in making a decision about whether or not to buy your ticket online or at the station.

ckendall

Two points: first, you have learned about the difference between chip and pin (what you need) and chip and signature cards (what you have and what most US chip cards are). Second, in small towns without booths you can often buy tickets from conductors on the train who may be more accommodating with change (though I am not sure if they take cards).

LocoCoco

Ckendall is spot on. I suggest you look into getting a true chip-pin cc from either the State Department Federal Credit Union or the PenFed FCU. You can become eligible to join either CU by joining an approved affiliated group, such as the American Consumer Council. All of the CU and CC arrangements can be done via the net and faxes. Of course, I'm assuming you're a US citizen or permanent resident. Buona fortuna!

Perche

I'm a dual citizen of the U.S. and Italy. I've probably spent almost one year out of the last three living in Italy, mostly in Venice. In Venice I don't need to use a train. I have a resident card that let's me use the vaporetti for a very low price. Occasionally I'd go to Padua, Verona, etc. by train, but not often.

Now I've been living in Torino since June, and the train is a more constant feature. I obtained the American Airlines Executive card because it gives 10,000 elite qualifying miles, double mile per spend on airline tickets, admission to the Admirals Club, and other benefits.

I just didn't know that you couldn't get on a train with it here in Italy, and so I give fair warning to others. I also have a Citi AMEX tied to American Airline points, but it's worthless. Almost no one takes AMEX in Italy.

As far as dealing with conductors, that's a risk. I was on a train from Parma to Modena recently, a local train. I forgot to get my ticket validated using the little yellow box before I got on the train. When the conductor saw that my ticket wasn't validated he said I could either pay him a 50 Euro fine, or he could call the Carabinieri, and I could pay them a 200 Euro fine. He didn't speak a word of English

I wound up not paying anything. I'm fluent in Italian, and had a long enough discussion with him to convince him that it was an honest mistake. He lectured me as if I was in the second grade. If you're in a small town and getting on a train, guaranteed the conductor won't speak english, and trying to convince them that you didn't get on the train without a ticket for legitimate reasons I think is risky.

Lately, when I've gotten on trains here, there has been a public service announcement, only in Italian, saying basically that they take getting on a train without a ticket very seriously, and are strictly enforcing it, so surrender to the conductor right away if you don't have a ticket. Probably fine on some trains with lots of tourists, but I wouldn't want to bet on it: if you don't have the 200 Euro on you, you'll be taken off the train and taken to the police station.

So, I guess the bottom line is, do I need to get a third credit card, one without a chip, to use for the train? I'm not sure I understand.

ckendall

I guess it depends on the line; I was on a train Lecco to Milan and the station was closed and my friends told me to get on the train and buy the ticket; I was not the only one doing so. Perhaps it is Trenord versus Trenitalia but I go Milan Lecco from time to time and I see people purchasing from the conductor.

JMN57

Perche - what you need is a Chip 'n Pin card and you have Chip 'n Signature as has been pointed out above. One way is to get a US Chip 'n Pin card but there are not many US cards that provide it. If you can get an Italian credit card, that would have Chip 'n Pin. Finally, it has been reported that some Chip 'n Signature cards (which you have) do work in machines with a 0000 pin. It may be a long shot but you might try to pay with your card and enter 0000 to see if it will work.

mandolino

This happened to me between Ravenna and Bologna!

I don't speak Italian much at all but the Italian passengers in the carriage all turned on the conductor and told him he was being ridiculous as it was clearly an honest mistake by a foreigner. He wouldn't budge and I got fined €80.

One of the passengers then asked me if I'd bought my ticket from a window or a machine. He explained that the machine validates it automatically but the human in the window does not.

That is why I'd never been aware of the validation requirement before - I'd always bought from a machine except for that time.

rove312

I understand that Trenitalia machines will take U.S. debit cards, no chip needed.

retrovertigo

I usually pay on the train if I have to, and they do take cards. And yes, where a chip and pin is required I have used my debit card.

Perche

I've been hesitant to use my ATM card. Even with a travel notification I've had them put a hold on my card when their computer spits out something that seems like a strange purchase and I never want that to happen again. Being stuck with no cash stinks.

Am on a train from Torino to Milano, and I bought a ticket with cash. Interestingly, it was a fairly long line, and the woman in front of me couldn't complete her transaction because her credit card wasn't accepted.

On board, when they came to check for tickets, I showed mine to the official, but asked him if it's OK to board without a ticket, and just buy it on board. He said certainly, if you don't have time to buy a ticket, just get on the train and buy it onboard. But he said there's a five euro surcharge for buying the ticket aboard.

I thought I'd provide this additional info, but with a caution. I'm on a trainitali regional, not on one of the Frecciarossa or Argento, and It's possible there are differences when buying aboard between trains.

Still, if there's a 5E surcharge per ticket on a regional train a party of four might think that going to a ticket machine and using euros is worth their while compared to a 20E surcharge.

ckendall

One further bit; I bought tickets online from Milano to Lugano the other day with a US credit card and picked them up at the machines in the Milan Central Station (entering ticket number and name information). Quite simple and impossible (Lugano is an international ticket) until fairly recently. So if you can navigate trenitalia.com you don't need a European credit card.

Perche