Closed Account
Apr 28, 2020, 9:55 am
#77
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,115
I agree with LondonElite that we probably, most likely even, don't know the full picture, and I would love it if LondonElite could share some of the other true FlyerTalk constants.
However, there should be a way for any customer to at least be able to obtain the reasoning that led to a particular decision to his disadvantage, as there is always a possibility that the reasoning was made in error. Like a FOIA, but for corps. Privacy data requests have been mentioned above, but IME these only result in a handful of the information that a corp has about you, and how are you ever going to prove they know more?
If corps keep hiding behind their "fraud departments," governments around the world will start doing this for them, and it would be much worse (for the corps) vs. if they would it themselves.
However, there should be a way for any customer to at least be able to obtain the reasoning that led to a particular decision to his disadvantage, as there is always a possibility that the reasoning was made in error. Like a FOIA, but for corps. Privacy data requests have been mentioned above, but IME these only result in a handful of the information that a corp has about you, and how are you ever going to prove they know more?
If corps keep hiding behind their "fraud departments," governments around the world will start doing this for them, and it would be much worse (for the corps) vs. if they would it themselves.
Apr 28, 2020, 10:09 am
#78
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Programs: Aeroplan; PriorityClub
Posts: 934
How much money was spent on the purchases?
I used to buy points to use only for Point Breaks. After I bought the points, they changed the conditions and introduced a 1-year term after which points that I had paid for with cash would expire.
I would concentrate on the cash portion. This walks like fraud, talks like fraud...
I used to buy points to use only for Point Breaks. After I bought the points, they changed the conditions and introduced a 1-year term after which points that I had paid for with cash would expire.
I would concentrate on the cash portion. This walks like fraud, talks like fraud...
Apr 28, 2020, 10:28 am
#79
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
I well remember that period about 5 years ago. I think there were 3 or 4 threads like this running at the same time where OP was joined by other FTers saying the same thing. I think they all admitted (to FT, not IHG) that they’d signed up for multiple promos they weren’t approached for, some were even typing random 4-digit promo numbers into the IHG Promo page to see what happened. Indeed, there was even a lengthy FT sticky of 4-digit IHG Promo Codes. I think like almost every regular IHG FTer at the time I’d entered every code, most were a bust but a very sizeable minority worked. I was very nervous of those closure threads as my winnings from those practices were in the hundreds of thousands of points, it could easily have been me...
Today those opportunities have been sealed off but nowadays the most likely activity to lead to this would be booking redemption rooms for resale which is frequently part of a common-ish scam. Here a scammer runs a load of legitimate looking social media accounts offering last minute rooms atunbelievabledeals. The punter requests say the Beijing IC and pays say $50 for the night receiving a confirmation for the night. The con is that the scammer has purchased dozens of verified hacked IHG accounts and uses your points to book the stay along with any others he can sell that day. Of course if you’re online regularly to your account you’ll see that your points total is virtually zero’d and report it, IHG will treat you as the victim and you’ll be somewhat inconvenienced but it will be rectified. If you don’t regularly go online all the punters will have their stays but the chances are one of them will come to the hotels attention and your account will be identified as selling stays using points which will lead to instant closure and forfeiture of the (probably by that time very few) points left unredeemed. Now you’re struggling against account closure where IHG can demonstrate that the points in the account has been used to book lots of stays which were then sold for cash and since you’re the “owner” of the account... say no more!
Phone and email. Stay calm but be insistent. If that doesn’t work request your data rights file which they have to provide you and should give you the info you need to move forward. Those points are worth about $9,000 so in the final analysis point that out and state you’ll sue in the small claims court. It could be a lengthy struggle I’m afraid...
Today those opportunities have been sealed off but nowadays the most likely activity to lead to this would be booking redemption rooms for resale which is frequently part of a common-ish scam. Here a scammer runs a load of legitimate looking social media accounts offering last minute rooms atunbelievabledeals. The punter requests say the Beijing IC and pays say $50 for the night receiving a confirmation for the night. The con is that the scammer has purchased dozens of verified hacked IHG accounts and uses your points to book the stay along with any others he can sell that day. Of course if you’re online regularly to your account you’ll see that your points total is virtually zero’d and report it, IHG will treat you as the victim and you’ll be somewhat inconvenienced but it will be rectified. If you don’t regularly go online all the punters will have their stays but the chances are one of them will come to the hotels attention and your account will be identified as selling stays using points which will lead to instant closure and forfeiture of the (probably by that time very few) points left unredeemed. Now you’re struggling against account closure where IHG can demonstrate that the points in the account has been used to book lots of stays which were then sold for cash and since you’re the “owner” of the account... say no more!
Phone and email. Stay calm but be insistent. If that doesn’t work request your data rights file which they have to provide you and should give you the info you need to move forward. Those points are worth about $9,000 so in the final analysis point that out and state you’ll sue in the small claims court. It could be a lengthy struggle I’m afraid...
Apr 28, 2020, 10:37 am
#80
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
I agree with LondonElite that we probably, most likely even, don't know the full picture, and I would love it if LondonElite could share some of the other true FlyerTalk constants.
However, there should be a way for any customer to at least be able to obtain the reasoning that led to a particular decision to his disadvantage, as there is always a possibility that the reasoning was made in error. Like a FOIA, but for corps. Privacy data requests have been mentioned above, but IME these only result in a handful of the information that a corp has about you, and how are you ever going to prove they know more?
If corps keep hiding behind their "fraud departments," governments around the world will start doing this for them, and it would be much worse (for the corps) vs. if they would it themselves.
However, there should be a way for any customer to at least be able to obtain the reasoning that led to a particular decision to his disadvantage, as there is always a possibility that the reasoning was made in error. Like a FOIA, but for corps. Privacy data requests have been mentioned above, but IME these only result in a handful of the information that a corp has about you, and how are you ever going to prove they know more?
If corps keep hiding behind their "fraud departments," governments around the world will start doing this for them, and it would be much worse (for the corps) vs. if they would it themselves.
I'm not saying everyone does this, but it is very common in these threads.
Apr 28, 2020, 11:14 am
#82
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 57
my point is all these reward programs have language that reflects they can ban or stop your account for any reason with zero reason required.
Apr 28, 2020, 12:13 pm
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA MM Plat; AA MM Gold; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 15,866
Apr 28, 2020, 12:26 pm
#84
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVPG & BoardRoom
Posts: 289
You played the race card and failed? That certainly does not happen very often; however, it IS encouraging to hear.
Last edited by arcticflier; Apr 28, 2020 at 1:31 pm
Apr 28, 2020, 12:56 pm
#85
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sunny AZ
Programs: HH Diamond, Sixt Platinum, IHG Spire Ambassador, Marriott/SPG Gold .....
Posts: 3,211
why would I ? Point breaks are normal reservations (just for less points). I used most of them but others I had to cancel (again that is normal for hotel bookings as plans change that is why they are refundable). So I had let's say 10 nights reserved in the last 1-1.5 years and had to cancel 4 or so. Why would I mention this? How is that unusual?
Apr 28, 2020, 1:03 pm
#86
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sunny AZ
Programs: HH Diamond, Sixt Platinum, IHG Spire Ambassador, Marriott/SPG Gold .....
Posts: 3,211
why would I ? Point breaks are normal reservations (just for less points). I used most of them but others I had to cancel (again that is normal for hotel bookings as plans change that is why they are refundable). So I had let's say 10 nights reserved in the last 1-1.5 years and had to cancel 4 or so. Why would I mention this? How is that unusual?
Apr 28, 2020, 1:31 pm
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA MM Plat; AA MM Gold; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 15,866
why would I ? Point breaks are normal reservations (just for less points). I used most of them but others I had to cancel (again that is normal for hotel bookings as plans change that is why they are refundable). So I had let's say 10 nights reserved in the last 1-1.5 years and had to cancel 4 or so. Why would I mention this? How is that unusual?
Apr 28, 2020, 2:47 pm
#89
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: Koweit, Continental, Delta, (AA UA, USAir, BA)
Posts: 53
Once the corp office starts to give you the runaround more than 2-3 times, with vague unexplained breaches of catch-all provisions in generally worded Ts&Cs, you are unlikely to achieve satisfaction until YOU get into the driver's seat,
By being a plaintiff and forcing them to give substantial answers to a court.
What is the Small Claims limit in your area and CAN you in practice serve papers on IHG? Some jurisdictions serve proceedings themselves but will only allow you to sue a defendant (with some form of presence) within it's jurisdiction. If so, don't be afraid of using your local civil court, where they dont have those restrictions and claiming for ALL potential losses at the most liberal rate you can find. If IHG force you to do this, defending the case will cost them a fortune!
By being a plaintiff and forcing them to give substantial answers to a court.
What is the Small Claims limit in your area and CAN you in practice serve papers on IHG? Some jurisdictions serve proceedings themselves but will only allow you to sue a defendant (with some form of presence) within it's jurisdiction. If so, don't be afraid of using your local civil court, where they dont have those restrictions and claiming for ALL potential losses at the most liberal rate you can find. If IHG force you to do this, defending the case will cost them a fortune!
Apr 28, 2020, 2:56 pm
#90
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,673
i agree....if this were the case then i would have been banned years ago....i always made single of 2 night reservations using point breaks, even if i was staying longer since the lower rates would disappear pretty quickly....then i would look at flights & other logistics before cancelling the extra nights....i would typically do this the same day or a day later so as to not hold up the room for the nights i didn't need....