Zebradome

Kimpton Seafire Grand Cayman
Rewards Club Platinum

Very happy with stay, Staff were very attentive and hotel was quiet.

Reserved 4 nights North Sound view studio on points and one free night in Oceanview King. Bookings were combined and we were given Oceanview King Spa Studio for all 5 nights

This was a great room with a wetbar, huge empty fridge and fabulous bathroom with walk in Shower and deep bath. Bathroom had daylight from a window.

Received a welcome bottle of red wine and Secret Social password gift of a logo'd beach bag

Raid the minibar credit was $15 deducted from the bill

$30 free spa credit offered but not used by us.

Very disappointed with "social hour" which was anything but social. Just a grab and go social hour with two ice buckets in the foyer containing cans of local beer and capri-suns.

Excellent value for 70,000 points (though $80 per night resort fee was charged too) Also due to being a holiday period rooms were on a 30 day cancellation. Would go back.

Smythmeister

Kimpton Fitzroy London

What is your Rewards Club status?

Spire Ambassador

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?

Yes, but simple areas of improvement would make this a resounding yes.

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?

Booked 1 double superior on IHG Lux Life rate. Received same. Enquired as to upgrades. None available unless I wanted to spend £250 for a one bed suite.

How are the rooms?

This one was surprisingly big. Room 709. Entrance area with bathroom straight ahead. Separate seating area then through into the bedroom area. Much bigger than previous rooms in the same category so was pleased.

[If you are Spire and Inner Cricle]How was your complimentary welcome amenity?

£15 raid the bar credit. Wouldn't accept it on Galvin Bar and Grill though. Used it Fitzs bar.

Did you raid the minibar? If so, what did you take?

NA

Were you offered a Chef's Taste at Dinner, If so, what did you receive?

NA

Did you use the free spa credit / did the hotel participate? If so, was it a good value?

NA

What was good and what was bad?

Good:
Large room for the category and good layout.

Galvins restaurant excellent, definitely recommend. £75 credit via rate used there with no issues. Two free glasses of bubbly for dining as a guest of the hotel.

Fitz bar was lovely for a post show cocktail before bed.
Breakfast in Burr and Co was good and very quiet.

Social hour good with as much wine and beer as you can stomach in an hour! Held in Burr and Co.

Stunning building and grounds.

Great location.

Bad:
​​No upgrade with an upsell attempt when asked.

Late checkout to 2pm honoured but agent said they were doing me a favour as they don't normally do it. Despite it being guaranteed on the Lux Life rate.

I always have that feeling that they hold themselves back with service that doesn't want to go that extra mile, but so easily could.

No in room welcome amenities.

Secret password netted 1000 points which didn't post. Again.

Value for $ or Priority Club Points? Would you return?

With the breakfast included and the £75 credit, yes. I always avoid entry level rooms here as they're tiny. I also avoid their suite categories as for the price of those, IC Park Lane's service is better. If the rate is right, I will return.

Smythmeister

Kimpton Hotel Eventi New York

What is your Rewards Club status?
Spire Ambassador

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?
Yes, for how I paid.

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?
Booked deluxe king bed on points. No upgrade offered. Asked at check in. Agreed $100 per night for one bed suite with jacuzzi bath.

How are the rooms?
​​​​​Nice spacious room for New York. Clean, well finished and suited us well for our 3 day stay. The hard product was clearly Kimpton albeit much of the "wow" factors as others I've been to.

[If you are Spire and Inner Cricle]How was your complimentary welcome amenity?
Received 600 points. Nothing in room.

Did you raid the minibar? If so, what did you take?
$15 raid the mini bar credit. At $7.20 plus tax for a Snickers. $8 for a small bottle of water. We used the voucher but the prices were ridiculous.

Were you offered a Chef's Taste at Dinner, If so, what did you receive?
NA

Did you use the free spa credit / did the hotel participate? If so, was it a good value?
NA

What was good and what was bad?

Good:

Large room for New York with good views.

Clean room.

​​​​​​Nice entrance and decor.

Great location.

Social hour

Bad:​
Service was just OK. Nothing wrong but nothing special either. Just did enough to make the stay work.

​​​​No in room welcome amenity and free water not replenished.

Value for $ or Priority Club Points? Would you return?

At 141,000 for 3 nights plus $300 total for their one bed suite was a good deal. Room rate if booked with money was $2000. At that rate, it definitely isn't worth it but then NYC is expensive.

I would return but will try other properties on future visits. Not enough to wow me unfortunately.

stimpy

Status: Inner Circle

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?
Yes

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?
I booked King Essential, no upgrade. I checked in around noon and there was no staff. The doorman checked me in and he wasn't an expert. But it was only for one night.

How are the rooms?
The essential rooms are fairly large with large bathrooms and walk in shower. Good HVAC system.

How was your complimentary welcome amenity?
Later in the day I found staff at the front desk. They said there is no secret password going on now, but gave me two drink coupons for the bar. That turned out to be a nice value as the bartender wasn't shy about making me high end cocktails. That plus the free wine happy hour made for a heavy alcohol day.

Did you raid the minibar? If so, what did you take?
Not sure they had one.

Were you offered a Chef's Taste at Dinner, If so, what did you receive?
Didn't ask. But at the bar I had Escargots de Bourgogne and a pork belly dish. Delicious.

Did you use the free spa credit / did the hotel participate? If so, was it a good value?
Don't know if they have a spa.

What was good and what was bad?

Good:
It is a very nice boutique hotel in a high end neighborhood.

Bad:
A bit of a lack of staff at the front desk at certain times.

Value for $ or Priority Club Points? Would you return?
Good value and yes I'm sure I will return. This was my second visit.

Ragnarok

Kimpton Pittman (Dallas, TX, USA)
Status: IHG Platinum
Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay? : Yes
Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?
I booked a non-specific "suite" (The hotel is running a Spring Sale Rate that is strangely the same for essential room, standard room and suite. )
The reservation confirmation shows room type as "1 King 1 Bdrm Ste Living And Dining Area", which appears to be the standard suite level room.

I arrived at 8am at the hotel (early flight) expecting to drop off luggage only. Front Desk mentioned they were booked very full but offers a Buy Up option to upgrade to Epic Suite for $150. Declined and received room available for check in text around noon.

How are the rooms?
The "1 King 1 Bdrm Ste Living And Dining Area" are great! Bathrooms have walk in shower and soaking tub. Tons of natural light. Good HVAC system. The sofa and living area are great.

How was your complimentary welcome amenity?
Front Desk did not offer options for Welcome Amenity but I received the e-mail for the 600 points bonus a short while after I checked in. I take it that the Front desk agent just picked points for me. I didn't mind as I had night life plans and would not have used the drink coupon if offered.

Did you raid the minibar? If so, what did you take?
Did not check minibar.

Were you offered a Chef's Taste at Dinner, If so, what did you receive?
Not a benefit for IHG Plat IIRC.

Did you use the free spa credit / did the hotel participate? If so, was it a good value?
Not a benefit for IHG Plat IIRC.

What was good and what was bad?

Good:
It is a very nice boutique hotel right by Deep Ellum - the entertainment and night life district, it even have a fire pit and a swimming pool. The standard suite are very pleasant.

Bad:
Nothing bad. The Wifi wasn't fast, but it wasn't bad either.

Value for $ or Priority Club Points? Would you return?
For the Spring Sale rate (~$300/night) for the standard suite or with my corporate rate I would. But IMO the standard BAR rate is very high ($400 for the base level standard room, picking a few random weekends this upcoming month) and I wouldn't return at BAR rate.

stimpy

Status: Inner Circle

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?
Yes

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?
I booked a queen double premium for 3 and received a top floor king suite.

How are the rooms?
Very sizable, especially the bathroom that has a large cabin with a huge soaker tub and large shower space. The toilet is separated by a door and there are his and hers sinks. The living room has a sofa bed that we used.

How was your complimentary welcome amenity?
No amenity other than a $15 mini-bar credit which covered one pre-mixed cocktail.

Were you offered a Chef's Taste at Dinner, If so, what did you receive?
They said they don't have this. And the new steak restaurant is not managed by the hotel.

Did you use the free spa credit / did the hotel participate? If so, was it a good value?
No spa offer.

What was good and what was bad?

Good:
Excellent upgrade as suites are supposedly rare here.

Bad:
A bit of a lack of staff at the front desk at certain times. And they disputed their own website saying that the 4pm check out is not guaranteed.

Value for $ or Priority Club Points? Would you return?
Great value with the suite we received.

nicolas75

What is your IHG One Rewards status?
Diamond Royal Ambassador Inner Circle

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?
Yes, very much so.

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?
Booked cheapest rate with breakfast and was upgraded to a Premium King Bed Room.

How are the rooms?
Very nicely designed.

Around 40 sqm large.

Bedroom with very comfortable bed.

Seating area with sofa and armchair.

Desk

Bathroom with bathtub
Elemis toiletries.

Minibar with tonic water (for the offered gin) and water.

View over Whitworth Street.

Nespresso machine/kettle.
Closet with bathrobe.

Flatscreen television with large choice of national cable channels.

Usb sockets next to the bed.
No free PressReader.
Very quiet.

What was good and what was bad?
Good:
Very friendly staff.
Very nice design, blend of historic and contemporary (and love the fact that hotels has so many plants everywhere).
Good breakfast (notably hot plates).
Central location, with easy access by train to the airport

Bad:
No free bicycles (but a bike shared station is 5 minutes walk from the hotel).

Value for $ or IHG One Rewards Points? Would you return?
Yes, definitely.
The hotel is not cheap but very pleasant indeed.



Exterior








Flower shop

Lobby

































King Premium room














View from the room


Welcome gift

Winter garden







Refuge restaurant















Breakfast




Fitness centre

nicolas75

What is your IHG One Rewards status?
Diamond Royal Ambassador Inner Circle

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?
Yes.

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?
Booked Superior Double Bed with breakfast and was upgraded to a King Bed Suite Park view.

How are the rooms?
Simply superbly designed in light/natural colours palette

Around 50 sqm large.

Bedroom with very comfortable bed.

Seating area with sofa and armchair.

Desk

Very nice bathroom with bathtub and separate walk-in shower.
Great The Perfumer’s story by Azzi toiletries.
Heated towel rail.
Bathrobe.

Minibar with free soft drinks & beer, and alcohol at a fee.

View over Russell Square.

Nespresso machine/kettle.

Entry closet

Flatscreen television with large choice of national cable channels and some international ones.

Usb sockets next to the bed and desk
No free PressReader.
Very quiet.
Balcony (but no access as windows partially blocked by security cable).

Switch to adjust the intensity of the lights.

What was good and what was bad?
Good:

• Very nice design, superb suite.
• Central location, with easy access to the St Pancras station, and close to the British Museum. Very pleasant and leafy neighborhood.
• Free bicycles.
• I had to cancel my non flexible stay one month ago because of Covid, and hotel changed my reservation without any issue.

Bad:

• As is often the case in London, the staff have no real hotel training and little experience.
  Most staff are totally lacking in service, empathy and initiative (even getting an umbrella is challenging).
• The breakfast service was just catastrophic: staff unable to take and serve orders, empty buffet without being replenished, and buffet without much quality or inventiveness (industrial fruit juice, little choice).
  It would be good if premium hotels in London will stop believing that the hotel business can be run by students who know nothing about service.
  I had lunch with friends at the Comptoir Robuchon. And in a way, we had similar difficulties: except for the excellent French maitre d', the service was perfectible. A cold dish was brought on the table, and the bill was put on the table after the dessert of our 5-course tasting menu, without even asking us if we wanted a coffee (delivered without sugar).

Value for $ or IHG One Rewards Points? Would you return?
Yes, definitely for room, atmosphere and location.



Exterior
































Free bicycles

Bar



Courtyard and restaurant















King Bed Suite with Park view















Welcome gift



Minibar



View



Breakfast






Fitness centre

scienm

What is your IHG One Rewards status?
Diamond Royal Ambassador Inner Circle

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?
Not at all

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?
Booked cheapest, got 1-cat upgrade to premium

How are the rooms?
modern, but nothing special.


What was good and what was bad?
Good:
location, location and location

Bad:
No bellmen when I arrived. No help with luggages.
Nothing informed about inner circle benefits when checking-in.
Denied 4pm late checkout which is guaranteed for inner circle.

Inner Circle Amenity
a bottle of water, a bottle of sparkling water, and some small sweets.

Chef's Taste
Not given

Value for $ or IHG One Rewards Points? Would you return?
NO. Service was unacceptable at this price point. I would choose Edition if I need to stay in WeHo area.

nicolas75

Upgrade and quality of service were much better when I stayed at this property end December 2021 (and I love the design of the hotel).

davidw70

Kimpton Alton San Francisco

What is your Rewards Club status?
Diamond Ambassador

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?
Yes but by no means perfect

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?
Booked King Essential and upgraded to King Premium. At check-in, I was told I had been upgraded to a "slightly larger" room. The room was on the 2nd floor so I could just about see the bay over buildings. The F line streetcar ran directly outside the room so you could see the top of it as it passed.

How are the rooms?
The Alton is one half of the old Holiday Inn Fisherman's Wharf (the building that used to have Denny's). The rooms have been renovated nicely but you can tell it was once a 70s Holiday Inn. Bathroom with shower only; TV with Chromecast; excellent internet access; comfortable bed and a record player.




[If you are Spire and Inner Cricle] How was your complimentary welcome amenity?
$20 to be spent at the grab and go in the lobby. A local beer was $8 and Diet Coke $4 so this went quickly. Not sure if this was a Diamond amenity or part of the resort fee

Did you raid the minibar? If so, what did you take?
NA

Were you offered a Chef's Taste at Dinner, If so, what did you receive?
NA

Did you use the free spa credit / did the hotel participate? If so, was it a good value?
NA

What was good and what was bad?

Good:
Really friendly staff - the person who checked me in had worked at the Holiday Inn beforehand for 20 years.
I booked a rate including breakfast which provided $50 per day to use at the hotel restaurant. The restaurant was really understaffed but once served, the food was delicious
Social hour included white, red and two beers; again staff excellent
Tea and coffee 7am-10am
Room was cleaned during my stay (unlike so many other hotels at the moment)

Bad:
Minimal upgrade and certainly not a luxury hotel
Room a bit cold
Restaurant short-staffed

Value for $ or Priority Club Points? Would you return?
I stayed here as the rate was so much more affordable than either IC or Marriott properties downtown. The breakfast inclusive rate was only about $20 more than the flex rate so well worth booking that too. I would definitely return despite a few failings.

stimpy

What is your Rewards Club status?
Inner Circle

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?
Yes, mostly

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?
Booked King Essential and upgraded to what I would call a corner junior suite with a very large bathroom. Large shower cabin and sizable standalone bath.

How are the rooms?
Nice and solidly built. Excellent HVAC that was silent and worked quite well in the 39C weather. Lots of space throughout. Smallish TV though.

How was your complimentary welcome amenity?
None offered.

Did you raid the minibar? If so, what did you take?
NA

Were you offered a Chef's Taste at Dinner, If so, what did you receive?
NA

Did you use the free spa credit / did the hotel participate? If so, was it a good value?
NA

What was good and what was bad?

Good:
Nice upgraded room. Excellent hard product throughout.
They offer everyone a local beer at check in.

Bad:
No elite benefits other than upgrade
Restaurant closed for breakfast. They only had a grab and go in the lobby. And the restaurant closes a bit early at night for Austin standards. So I wasn't able to have any meals at the hotel. The restaurant is supposed to be quite good, but there are plenty of others in Austin.
They lost my reservation even though it was still active in the IHG system. Check in took over 20 minutes and check out was taking about that long when they just said I could go and they would take care of it. Later that night I was emailed the correct folio.

Value for $ or Priority Club Points? Would you return?
It was very expensive, but so was everything else this past week with several large conferences in town. This hotel was the same price as the JW Marriott and it was a tough choice.

greendx

What is your Rewards Club status?
Platinum Ambassador

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?
Mostly

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?
Booked: 1 King Bed Essential Resort View
Received: 1 King Bed Essential Sea View

How are the rooms?
Good sized room. Large balcony with a nice view. I recommend waking up early to watch the sunrise. I don't like the climate controls in the room. Can't get the temperature to stay at 21.5C for some reason but can make it lower or higher no problem. Room fan has 3 speeds but they are all the same.

How was your complimentary welcome amenity?
Offered points or a drink. Took points.

Did you raid the minibar? If so, what did you take?
No

Were you offered a Chef's Taste at Dinner, If so, what did you receive?
I've been eating breakfast and lunch at the hotel but dinner off site.

Did you use the free spa credit / did the hotel participate? If so, was it a good value?
Don't know. Did not use spa.

What was good and what was bad?
Good: Hotel is only 6 months old and looks great. Free breakfast even on a points stay. Food has been good. Very chill vibe, especially at the pool. Very low occupancy at the hotel (I guess it's bad for the hotel).
Bad: All pool chairs are in the shallow part of the pool. I keep thinking I'm going to drop my phone into the pool. First day none of the pool chairs had umbrellas but that has since been resolved.

Value for $ or Priority Club Points? Would you return?
Spending 5 nights here on points. 1 night was 41K points but rest all under 40K vs ~$300/night so that's pretty good value in my opinion, especially if you have 40K free night certs. Free breakfast that's both a buffet + a la cart is great as well. I don't know if I will return, nothing against the hotel but there are many other options on this island that I would want to explore first.

Smythmeister

Kimpton Fitzroy London

What is your Rewards Club status?

Diamond Ambassador

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?

Yes

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?

Booked 1 queen bed park view on IHG Lux Life rate. Within a day or two of booking this changed in app to Junior Suite (about 5 months before stay). Enquired about upgrade to one bed suite at check in and was willing to pay. Was told they would move me up to one bed suite at no charge. Best upgrade experience here by a long shot.

How are the rooms?

Very impressed. Room 658. Two toilets, living area, bedroom area and an enormous bathroom! My favourite room style at this hotel so far. Better, in my opinion, than the Mayfair One Bed Suites at Park Lane.

[If you are Spire and Inner Cricle]How was your complimentary welcome amenity?

£15 raid the bar credit. Used at Fitz's

Did you raid the minibar? If so, what did you take?

Free soft drinks and beer in suite. Used each day. Replenished each day. No charge.

Were you offered a Chef's Taste at Dinner, If so, what did you receive?

NA

Did you use the free spa credit / did the hotel participate? If so, was it a good value?

NA

What was good and what was bad?

Good:
Loved the suite.

Service since my stay earlier in the year was a marked improvement. Time for staff to train up? Generally improving standards? Who knows. But it was excellent.

Really like Galvin's Bar and Grill for dinner for using the £75 credit. Only 3 covers including us on a Sat night at 7pm (perhaps Jubilee celebrations were the reason it was quiet).

Breakfast has moved to Galvin's now and is soooo much better than the inconsistent service and food offering when it was in Burr and Co.

Social hour now in Galvin Bar (not restaurant) with a much better vibe.

Stunning building and grounds.

Great location.

Bad:
Extremely minor but there was no bottle opener in the room and everything required a bottle opener to drink! Room service would arrive within a couple of minutes on request but nobody would leave us a bottle opener to use. I suspect they get nicked!

Value for $ or Priority Club Points? Would you return?

For this particular stay on the Lux Life 3 for 2 rate at £858 for 3 nights, and with a 2 or 3 cat upgrade to the one bed suite, was most definitely good value for money. I will stay again.

MeltingAlf

Kimpton Clocktower Hotel (Manchester, UK)

What is your Rewards Club status?

Plat Elite/Ambassador

Were you (or for multi-stayers are you generally) happy with the hotel/stay?

Yes, but with caveats.

Which room did you book and which upgrade did you receive?

A "1 Double Bed Essential". Was apparently given an "upgrade" (but I didn't catch exactly what), but the room was still the same type.
Elected to pay for an upgrade to a 2 Double Bed Essential later in the day (because of certain circumstances), and was given the first day's upgrade for free.

How are the rooms?

I'd say it varies. I was rather happy with the 2 Double Bed Essential I moved into later the day, but less so with the 1 Double Bed Essential room. The Clocktower Hotel isn't in a purpose-built hotel building (as the name suggests), so one's mileage may vary depending on the room. Some rooms have their TV wall-mounted, some not, depending on whether there is a wall to mount it on. Rooms without the TV wall-mounted meant that it ate into desk space (and so you can't really realistically use the desk for work). I did see a room that had the period panelling features and had a dedicated desk space, but it felt a bit darker than the rest, and it had a shower instead of a shower+bathtub (not a deal-breaker for me, I prefer the shower, but it might be a dealbreaker for some).

Second room definitely had really high ceilings (think lofts); can't remember about the first.

The first room I was in had an issue with what I think was the dehumidifier fan? in the toilets. Like, it made noise from time to time, and I thought it was kinda normal but I had none of those in the second room.

The heating/cooling can also be quite finicky - in both rooms I was in, it automatically switched back to cooling from heating. Given that this is Manchester and not London, it turned me into an icicle at times. And I'm not quite sure why as well, Daikin (the brand) usually is stellar from what I've seen over the years.

Essentially I guess it might be helpful to drop an email with your enquiries before your stay, if you need specific stuff - the staff there is excellent.

[If you are Spire and Inner Circle] How was your complimentary welcome amenity?

Not Spire or Inner Circle, but was offered 600 points or £10 raid the bar. Got the £10, but didn't end up using it, and was offered to have it changed back to points at checkout.

Did you raid the minibar? If so, what did you take?

Minibar stuff's all free at this Kimpton!

Were you offered a Chef's Taste at Dinner, If so, what did you receive?

NA

Did you use the free spa credit / did the hotel participate? If so, was it a good value?

NA

What was good and what was bad?

Good:
The staff. Oh, they were so nice. And I mean, actually-nicer-than-IC-Sofia-which-is-already-really-amazing. They went out on their way to make sure I was happy with everything.
The Refuge bar and restaurant - food was better than usual, but beyond that, it's a really nice bit to just have a drink or two and I wished I took advantage of it more when I was there.

Really lovely building, and really lovely rooms. However (see below)

Bad:
However, some corridors and some rooms definitely are better than the others. The corridor where my original room is was a bit darker (I love my light), the other one was way better with lots of natural sunlight. I'm not a fan of the Clocktower building (the one accessible to the right), but the buildings on the left are nicer. Refuge building/wing is currently not used as it's undergoing renovation. The hotel is absolutely huge (you can definitely get lost in it), so I'm not surprised about the variation.

​​The nature of this hotel's buildings (the Clocktower is based on four historic enjoining buildings) mean that some old-construction flaws are kinda, well, obvious. The room that I stayed in (and the previous one) had minimal soundproofing from the outside. Sometimes it's possible to hear a very teeny tiny bit of what is going on in the adjoining room, and definitely when people are talking in the corridor. I was woken up by construction (conducted on the building next door) on my last two days, too; and was disrupted from falling asleep at 3/4am in the morning on the first day because of presumably club-goers making noise whilst walking down Whitworth Street.

Value for $ or Priority Club Points? Would you return?
In all honesty, I would return when the conditions are right. The staff alone made it quite worth the time. But I admit I paid too much for this. Considering it was the Platinum Jubilee weekend in the UK, it probably is par for the course. Yet, considering the fact it was a writing/work retreat for me, hopping up to Edin or Glasgow to one of the other Kimptons might have been more economical and for a slightly nicer environment. If I had stayed in my original room, a citizenM would have more table space in their tiny rooms than it, which I consider shocking.

While I am in "I will return" bit (especially once the Refuge wing refurb is complete, and some of the other refurbishments that's slated for some other rooms), I think I can only come to a definite conclusion once I've tried the Hotel Indigo in town, and when it comes down to price. This Kimpton can be had affordably, but it can also spiral quite expensively and I just think there are some price points where the value proposition for this place can't be justified (especially considering the possible noise and room variation issues).