Crowne Plaza Makes No Sense
Dec 7, 2021, 5:46 pm
#16
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Excellent find, nicolas75. Frankly, what's shown in that pdf is bonkers. The difference between a Crowne Plaza and a JW Marriott is two categories on the development scale. Upscale (CP) --> Upper Upscale --> Luxury (JW)
If that's how IHG is marketing the Crowne Plaza brand to potential franchisors, they are flat-out lying. While I still contend that the development scale is fine as a tool developers, I will amend my response to Eastbay1K and say that IHG appears to be totally misrepresenting their brand as it applies to that scale.
If that's how IHG is marketing the Crowne Plaza brand to potential franchisors, they are flat-out lying. While I still contend that the development scale is fine as a tool developers, I will amend my response to Eastbay1K and say that IHG appears to be totally misrepresenting their brand as it applies to that scale.
Dec 7, 2021, 10:41 pm
#17
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I wouldn't go all the way to say Crowne Plaza doesn't make sense... but overall, it's a stodgy, outdated brand that doesn't have much cachet, and is woefully inconsistent.
I'll illustrate my point with this: I live in Muscat, and we've got two Crowne Plazas here - one perched atop a cliff with possibly the best views over the city, and the other in the middle of a wasteland earmarked for a masterplanned mixed-use development [assuming it ever happens]. CP MCT redid its lobby, pool deck, exterior and some outdoor spaces, and it's now lovely... but the rooms are boring, old and clash with the modern tone set by the rest of the property. CP OCEC, on the other hand, is a new-build that opened in November 2017 yet feels COMPLETELY anonymous, with no hint of imagination in its interiors other than having a beautifully-designed Thai restaurant; if you're looking for the most generic possible upscale hotel, this is it. CP MCT deserves to carry a much better brand, especially given its location - why it isn't a Kimpton, Le Méridien or Sofitel is beyond me.
And therein lies the issue: IHG is positioning CP as a brand that's business-centric, with the latest brand direction including elements like meeting pods, communal spaces, rooms that are conducive to work and so on. Yet identifying JW Marriott, an entry-level luxury brand [as much as I disagree with that], as a competitor when CP is basically at or just a hair below your usual Marriott/Sheraton/Hilton levels, is delusion and point-blank misrepresentation. IHG needs CONSISTENCY in its portfolio, and needs to do a LOT of work to bring its properties into line. Now that the new CP direction has been out for over a year, why haven't they committed more owners into renovations the way Marriott is forcing its Sheraton franchisees into upgrading their properties to the new Sheraton level or risk being deflagged? One might argue that CP could be done away with entirely, but just as Marriott has managed to breathe new life into Sheraton, IHG should give more of a shxt to CP and ensure a proper brand realignment.
This issue extends further into IHG's portfolio, and here are two key examples in my opinion:
khabah
I'll illustrate my point with this: I live in Muscat, and we've got two Crowne Plazas here - one perched atop a cliff with possibly the best views over the city, and the other in the middle of a wasteland earmarked for a masterplanned mixed-use development [assuming it ever happens]. CP MCT redid its lobby, pool deck, exterior and some outdoor spaces, and it's now lovely... but the rooms are boring, old and clash with the modern tone set by the rest of the property. CP OCEC, on the other hand, is a new-build that opened in November 2017 yet feels COMPLETELY anonymous, with no hint of imagination in its interiors other than having a beautifully-designed Thai restaurant; if you're looking for the most generic possible upscale hotel, this is it. CP MCT deserves to carry a much better brand, especially given its location - why it isn't a Kimpton, Le Méridien or Sofitel is beyond me.
And therein lies the issue: IHG is positioning CP as a brand that's business-centric, with the latest brand direction including elements like meeting pods, communal spaces, rooms that are conducive to work and so on. Yet identifying JW Marriott, an entry-level luxury brand [as much as I disagree with that], as a competitor when CP is basically at or just a hair below your usual Marriott/Sheraton/Hilton levels, is delusion and point-blank misrepresentation. IHG needs CONSISTENCY in its portfolio, and needs to do a LOT of work to bring its properties into line. Now that the new CP direction has been out for over a year, why haven't they committed more owners into renovations the way Marriott is forcing its Sheraton franchisees into upgrading their properties to the new Sheraton level or risk being deflagged? One might argue that CP could be done away with entirely, but just as Marriott has managed to breathe new life into Sheraton, IHG should give more of a shxt to CP and ensure a proper brand realignment.
This issue extends further into IHG's portfolio, and here are two key examples in my opinion:
- IHG acquired Regent in 2018, embedded it into the system in 2019, and repositioned it with very clear brand guidelines that will see it take on the St. Regis, Four Seasons and Rosewood hotels of the world with a distinct modern luxury slant, yet more than half of the existing Regent portfolio consists of hotels that are respected but wildly outdated [looking at you, Beijing, Berlin, Singapore and Taipei]. Another issue is that IHG has given Regent a new corporate identity, yet only their hotels in Shanghai and Chongqing use the new branding and details while the others still use the old logos. A small portfolio should be easy to pivot and realign, yet they're taking their time bringing it together.
- Ultimately, one mustn't look further than IHG's flagship InterContinental brand. Some ICs are beautiful and truly luxury-level, but many others [Chicago, Atlanta, San Francisco Mark Hopkins, Cairo Semiramis, Cairo Heliopolis, Amman, Montréal, Toronto Centre, Singapore] would barely classify as upscale given their age, service levels, facilities and décor. If the flagship brand and company namesake is itself all over the place, then this lack of care and attention will trickle down the pyramid.
khabah
Dec 8, 2021, 2:46 am
#18
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When I was in Muscat, I stayed at the InterContinental but had a walk to the Crowne Plaza, ... and took advantage of the pool.
It is clear that this hotel, after renovation, could become a superb Kimpton.
Still, it should be remembered on the one hand that IHG, like most of large hotel groups, has an asset light strategy: also, the renovation of hotels depends on the owners of the buildings, and is in fact subject to their conservatism.
On the other hand this analysis could be carried out for many other properties, which benefit from a prime location but a dated design : the old Crowne Plaza Shoreditch which has been transformed into the ACE hotel (which has unfortunately since closed), the former Holiday Inn San Francisco-Fishermans Wharf transformed into the Kimpton Alton Hotel Fisherman's Wharf.
The Crowne Plaza Paris République would, by its location, have been more judiciously transformed into a Kimpton.
The fact remains that we should not have a vision centered on the United States (as we can often observe it on Flyertalk), and in a certain way Europe or the Middle East: growth is currently taking place in Asia, and many properties opened in this region are definitely very good level, and certainly at the level of a JW Marriott and its direct competitors:
Crowne Plaza Bijie Jinhai Lake
Crowne Plaza Shennongjia
Crowne Plaza Phu Quoc Starbay
Crowne Plaza Wuhan Optics Valley
Crowne Plaza Jakarta Residences
Crowne Plaza Wuxi Taihu
Crowne Plaza Sanya Haitang Bay Resort
Crowne Plaza Changi Airport
Crowne Plaza New Delhi Mayur Vihar Noida
Crowne Plaza Hong Kong Kowloon East
Dec 9, 2021, 4:27 pm
#20
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My experience with CP is limited to USA. In general, I have found them to be almost all very old properties with outdated designs. Some are maintained well within those limitations and others are just bad. It is one of the brands I avoid unless I know a specific property is a good one.
Last edited by elCheapoDeluxe; Dec 9, 2021 at 4:34 pm
Dec 9, 2021, 5:09 pm
#21
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I agree with others here that most CP's are two levels below a J.W. However, many CP's can compete with Pullman or Grand Mercure, and CP's are generally better than a regular Mercure.
I agree brand consistency is an issue, but we can use that to our advantage (just stay at the ones we like).
Just because someone may not like the brand or seek it out doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. I like it that most CP's are dated, non-descript and have no cachet (except for having Crowne in the name). I like it bc it means those older hotels are less expensive than other similar hotels with a lounge.
There are a number of places where I would stay at a CP, but not the Holiday Inn nearby bc the CP will offer more amenities, be a little nicer, and is sometimes cheaper than the HI.
I agree HIX has definite brand features such as free breakfast for everyone, newer hotels, and low rates (which does make me feel smarter when I stay at one).
We can't rebrand the CP SFO to a HI, bc then we'd have to rebrand the HIX S. Airport to a Travelodge. That HIX was one of the most depressing hotels I've ever stayed at (and I've stayed at the Hampton Inn Jamaica, NY).
I agree brand consistency is an issue, but we can use that to our advantage (just stay at the ones we like).
Just because someone may not like the brand or seek it out doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. I like it that most CP's are dated, non-descript and have no cachet (except for having Crowne in the name). I like it bc it means those older hotels are less expensive than other similar hotels with a lounge.
There are a number of places where I would stay at a CP, but not the Holiday Inn nearby bc the CP will offer more amenities, be a little nicer, and is sometimes cheaper than the HI.
I agree HIX has definite brand features such as free breakfast for everyone, newer hotels, and low rates (which does make me feel smarter when I stay at one).
We can't rebrand the CP SFO to a HI, bc then we'd have to rebrand the HIX S. Airport to a Travelodge. That HIX was one of the most depressing hotels I've ever stayed at (and I've stayed at the Hampton Inn Jamaica, NY).
Dec 9, 2021, 7:42 pm
#22
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--Jon
Dec 10, 2021, 1:02 am
#23
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I think it really depends on the region of travel. In Asia (specifically, Japan), I've found the Crowne Plazas have a very defined (albeit not overly exciting) and consistent brand identity. They are consistently above the level of any Holiday Inn and below the level of all the Intercontinentals in the country. I.e., exactly where the Crowne Plaza brand should fit within the IHG family of brands. There just seems to me much less consistency with the Crowne Plaza brand in the U.S.
-FlyerBeek
-FlyerBeek
Dec 10, 2021, 1:42 am
#24
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The crowns plaza foster city is only another ten minutes from SFO but while not fantastic a dramatic improvement over CP SFO. Pre Covid it even had a shuttle from the airport not sure about these days
Dec 10, 2021, 2:01 am
#25
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Once CP The City leaves in a few weeks, London will not have a single central CP (assuming you ignore Kings Cross which is a useless location) …..
Crowne Plaza Sheffield is an example of what went wrong. This was a Holiday Inn in a terrible state (the room curtains were full of moth holes for example). Instead of booting it out of IHG it seems the owners were promised CP status if they spent a few quid on the bedrooms, leaving the rest untouched. Even now I would say it should be lucky to be a HI but it is actually a CP.
I was at a brand new Courtyard this week and it blew CP Sheffield out of the water …..
Crowne Plaza Sheffield is an example of what went wrong. This was a Holiday Inn in a terrible state (the room curtains were full of moth holes for example). Instead of booting it out of IHG it seems the owners were promised CP status if they spent a few quid on the bedrooms, leaving the rest untouched. Even now I would say it should be lucky to be a HI but it is actually a CP.
I was at a brand new Courtyard this week and it blew CP Sheffield out of the water …..
Dec 10, 2021, 1:18 pm
#26
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My experiences have been the Crowne is a brand of the 90s located near the TGI Friday's in what is now a class B office park. The only positive exception to this I have found has been Milan Centrale, that location is great.
Dec 10, 2021, 6:35 pm
#27
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Dec 11, 2021, 2:17 am
#28
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The problem with CP is that properties differ so much from each other that it is consistent being inconsistent!
CP Maastricht is dreary place where sad comes to hang itself while
CP Amsterdam Zuid/WTC is a pleasent modern facility.
CP Maastricht is dreary place where sad comes to hang itself while
CP Amsterdam Zuid/WTC is a pleasent modern facility.
Dec 11, 2021, 2:22 am
#29
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Outside the US, I consider CP to be pretty good. They have among the best elite recognition for Spires. Many decent new builds, too.
Admittedly, in the US it is a bit of a different story. But let's face it, the US has a ton of crappy, overpriced chain hotels. This issue is far from being unique to CP.
Admittedly, in the US it is a bit of a different story. But let's face it, the US has a ton of crappy, overpriced chain hotels. This issue is far from being unique to CP.
Dec 11, 2021, 6:59 am
#30
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Outside the US, I consider CP to be pretty good. They have among the best elite recognition for Spires. Many decent new builds, too.
Admittedly, in the US it is a bit of a different story. But let's face it, the US has a ton of crappy, overpriced chain hotels. This issue is far from being unique to CP.
Admittedly, in the US it is a bit of a different story. But let's face it, the US has a ton of crappy, overpriced chain hotels. This issue is far from being unique to CP.
Same story with Sheraton, Hilton and even worse Radisson hotels in the US.
Once considered a bit of a black sheep in the Marriott portfolio, Sheraton Hotels and Resorts will be getting a new look coming out of the pandemic.
The brand unveiled a redesign effort Marriott hopes will bring Sheraton “up to date” for “the next generation of travelers,” aiming to transform more than 40 hotels by the end of 2022, with more than six already complete in Denver, Phoenix, Israel and other locations globally.
While it isn’t a great time to be in the hospitality business, the environment might be ideal for a rebrand. This one’s been in the works since Marriott purchased the Sheraton brand from Starwood in 2016.
Sheraton is Marriott’s third largest and most global brand. As of 2018, it was still able to pull in $9.2 billion in revenue across more than 450 hotels in 70 countries.
Still, the brand had become something of a redheaded stepchild for the company, even before the pandemic crippled the travel industry. Starwood had reportedly debated dropping Sheraton—then-CEO Adam Aron had called the brand “tired”—before Marriott snatched up Starwood’s entire portfolio in 2016.
“It has become the Buick of the hotel business: still well known but not well regarded,” said Chekitan Dev, a hospitality branding professor at Cornell University. “Despite its lackluster market position, it is still one of the most recognized hotel brand names and has a lot of rooms affiliated with the brand.”
As of the end of 2019, the company said roughly half of Sheraton hotels have either “undergone, are undergoing, or have committed to undergo renovation.”
Marriott former CEO Arne Sorenson called the brand “a ton of work.” And that work is underway.
The first step was taken in 2018, when Sheraton’s iconic logo was given a bit of a facelift, its first in nearly 40 years. Underneath the wreath, Sheraton’s founding year is stamped, a reminder to travelers that the hotel chain has a history it is proud of.
“All of these little ways give nods to the fact that we don’t think we’re this new slick, beautiful thing that is now unattainable for people who have actually given decades to this brand,” said Amanda Nichols, senior brand director for Sheraton Hotels and Resorts at Marriott International.
But part of the problem has been that Sheraton doesn’t have a defined audience in mind.
“When you look at needing to meet guests where leisure happens, where business travel happens, and a big portion of where meetings and events happen, that means we are actually a much broader audience segment than some of our more niche and lifestyle brands,” Nichols said.
About 30% of the brand’s revenue comes from meetings and events globally, ticking a bit higher in North America. That segment is predicted to be the last to return when the travel industry does recover.
The brand unveiled a redesign effort Marriott hopes will bring Sheraton “up to date” for “the next generation of travelers,” aiming to transform more than 40 hotels by the end of 2022, with more than six already complete in Denver, Phoenix, Israel and other locations globally.
While it isn’t a great time to be in the hospitality business, the environment might be ideal for a rebrand. This one’s been in the works since Marriott purchased the Sheraton brand from Starwood in 2016.
Sheraton is Marriott’s third largest and most global brand. As of 2018, it was still able to pull in $9.2 billion in revenue across more than 450 hotels in 70 countries.
Still, the brand had become something of a redheaded stepchild for the company, even before the pandemic crippled the travel industry. Starwood had reportedly debated dropping Sheraton—then-CEO Adam Aron had called the brand “tired”—before Marriott snatched up Starwood’s entire portfolio in 2016.
“It has become the Buick of the hotel business: still well known but not well regarded,” said Chekitan Dev, a hospitality branding professor at Cornell University. “Despite its lackluster market position, it is still one of the most recognized hotel brand names and has a lot of rooms affiliated with the brand.”
As of the end of 2019, the company said roughly half of Sheraton hotels have either “undergone, are undergoing, or have committed to undergo renovation.”
Marriott former CEO Arne Sorenson called the brand “a ton of work.” And that work is underway.
The first step was taken in 2018, when Sheraton’s iconic logo was given a bit of a facelift, its first in nearly 40 years. Underneath the wreath, Sheraton’s founding year is stamped, a reminder to travelers that the hotel chain has a history it is proud of.
“All of these little ways give nods to the fact that we don’t think we’re this new slick, beautiful thing that is now unattainable for people who have actually given decades to this brand,” said Amanda Nichols, senior brand director for Sheraton Hotels and Resorts at Marriott International.
But part of the problem has been that Sheraton doesn’t have a defined audience in mind.
“When you look at needing to meet guests where leisure happens, where business travel happens, and a big portion of where meetings and events happen, that means we are actually a much broader audience segment than some of our more niche and lifestyle brands,” Nichols said.
About 30% of the brand’s revenue comes from meetings and events globally, ticking a bit higher in North America. That segment is predicted to be the last to return when the travel industry does recover.
Last edited by nicolas75; Dec 11, 2021 at 9:41 am