New RA rules after SPIRE

Old Jul 21, 2015, 9:45 am
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by The Mileage Millionaire
Me, too. You can expect a pretty major devaluation in award charts next year. I'm guessing we'll see some IC's go up to as high as 70,000 - 80,000 points.
Is this speculation?
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Old Jul 21, 2015, 9:47 am
  #62  
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Originally Posted by cxua
Is this speculation?
it's a negative speculation and I disagree for the short term (1-2 years). IHG recently had a significant devaluation yet they capped IC's at 50K points. IHG is now the industry leader when it comes to awards and I don't see them abandoning that.
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Old Jul 21, 2015, 10:19 am
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Originally Posted by stimpy
it's a negative speculation and I disagree for the short term (1-2 years). IHG recently had a significant devaluation yet they capped IC's at 50K points. IHG is now the industry leader when it comes to awards and I don't see them abandoning that.
I think you are wrong,I suspect this will be the price exacted by property owners in return for committing to better elite benefits. I would expect to see a Hilton scale devaluation.
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Old Jul 21, 2015, 11:05 am
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I don't think we will see quite as severe a deval as the Hilton one I think an IC increase to 60 or 70k will occur in the next eighteen months. 60-70k would still look like value when compared to Hiltons random pricing scales.

I also think we will see the introduction of premium rooms on reward at pumped up (Al a Hilton) rates as it's an easy way for them to manage the points liability. I think the hotels would go for that if they were allowed to set the points/price for premium reward rooms themselves with a guaranteed reimbursement per 1000 points redeemed etc.

Last edited by chrism20; Jul 21, 2015 at 11:14 am
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Old Jul 21, 2015, 1:43 pm
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Originally Posted by chrism20
I don't think we will see quite as severe a deval as the Hilton one I think an IC increase to 60 or 70k will occur in the next eighteen months. 60-70k would still look like value when compared to Hiltons random pricing scales.

I also think we will see the introduction of premium rooms on reward at pumped up (Al a Hilton) rates as it's an easy way for them to manage the points liability. I think the hotels would go for that if they were allowed to set the points/price for premium reward rooms themselves with a guaranteed reimbursement per 1000 points redeemed etc.
I think you misunderstand the purpose of premium rewards. For Hilton it wasn't so much to clear the books as eviscerate reward availability. Once upon a time as a Diamond you could pretty much guarantee a reward room anytime at standard rates. Now you can't even count on availability at quiet times as properties have been able to specify 5 rooms as standard with everything else being premium. Some Starwoods play similar games. IHG is a bit different since they don't guarantee redemptions if there is a standard room available. This is probably a more honest position but it would need to shift for IHG to get much benefit from premium rewards. I think Premium rewards in the Hilton context are a complete scam.
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Old Jul 21, 2015, 2:01 pm
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Originally Posted by Land-of-Miles
I think you misunderstand the purpose of premium rewards. For Hilton it wasn't so much to clear the books as eviscerate reward availability. Once upon a time as a Diamond you could pretty much guarantee a reward room anytime at standard rates. Now you can't even count on availability at quiet times as properties have been able to specify 5 rooms as standard with everything else being premium. Some Starwoods play similar games. IHG is a bit different since they don't guarantee redemptions if there is a standard room available. This is probably a more honest position but it would need to shift for IHG to get much benefit from premium rewards. I think Premium rewards in the Hilton context are a complete scam.
I understand the purpose of them in the Hilton context although I was referring more to IHG when commenting about bringing down the liability. At 100% bonus for spire they are going to have hike redemptions or bring in something to assist in bringing them (Points liability) down as they know that the people earning 100% won't expire.

I couldn't agree more with your description of Hiltons premium rewards being a scam. Although if I had a spare 2.2 million HHs I'd be tempted to book the presidential suite at Park Lane for New Year's Eve and pretend to be a millionaire for the night. Or perhaps the one bed suite with lounge at the Conrad for a tidy 3,775,580

Last edited by chrism20; Jul 21, 2015 at 2:07 pm
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Old Jul 22, 2015, 2:17 pm
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not really more Plats under new schema as new 40night qualifying mark is same as before, just need for 4brands removed, and those elites at say 38 nights and two brands would hit two other brands if needed for their 39th and 40th nights

Apart from some road warriors staying 150-250 nights plus a year in ihg hotels, the number of extra points in the system from recent change is the 33% more on a small percentage of elites and even these will only garner enough extra points for 1-2 extra Award nights in a year

Eg if stay at $100+taxes then instead of 1500 a Spire earns 2000 or plus 500points, and 100 nights is needed to total up 50k needed for top class IC Award, hardly an impact there against IHG's pockets

Spires now earning an extra 33.3% points. eg. 150% ups by a third to 200% of spend. Spires will makeup a small percentage of the active ihg'ers maybe just 1% or less, so not many Extra points earned each year as a percentage of total points earned over a year by all members

If IHG Corporate increased limits by amount of the extra Spires earned, Spires would stand still regards nights needed to earn an award night ....

BUT all non Spires would be alienated, and might stop being loyal to IHG, especially the little guys staying just 10-20 nights a year to earn just 1-2 award nights for a weekend away once a year and total hotel spend from all the non Spire/Plat elites. (ie Gold and Club ) is the large majority each year and IHG can not afford to alienate them

Also next April2016 it looks like IHG will get benefit of a 1-off points write off of points held in unused/dormant/dead accounts so I would not expect anything major until well after that event
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Old Jul 22, 2015, 11:54 pm
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Originally Posted by scubaccr
not really more Plats under new schema as new 40night qualifying mark is same as before, just need for 4brands removed, and those elites at say 38 nights and two brands would hit two other brands if needed for their 39th and 40th nights

Apart from some road warriors staying 150-250 nights plus a year in ihg hotels, the number of extra points in the system from recent change is the 33% more on a small percentage of elites and even these will only garner enough extra points for 1-2 extra Award nights in a year

Eg if stay at $100+taxes then instead of 1500 a Spire earns 2000 or plus 500points, and 100 nights is needed to total up 50k needed for top class IC Award, hardly an impact there against IHG's pockets

Spires now earning an extra 33.3% points. eg. 150% ups by a third to 200% of spend. Spires will makeup a small percentage of the active ihg'ers maybe just 1% or less, so not many Extra points earned each year as a percentage of total points earned over a year by all members

If IHG Corporate increased limits by amount of the extra Spires earned, Spires would stand still regards nights needed to earn an award night ....

BUT all non Spires would be alienated, and might stop being loyal to IHG, especially the little guys staying just 10-20 nights a year to earn just 1-2 award nights for a weekend away once a year and total hotel spend from all the non Spire/Plat elites. (ie Gold and Club ) is the large majority each year and IHG can not afford to alienate them

Also next April2016 it looks like IHG will get benefit of a 1-off points write off of points held in unused/dormant/dead accounts so I would not expect anything major until well after that event
If by 'anything major' you mean no more Spire benefit news until then, I'm inclined to disagree. At worst, they'll need add something for January 1st, although they might well announce additional benefits (besides those) to kick in later.

Frankly, if Spire is truly that small a percentage of guests, then they should get everything just short of RA (and Kimpton Inner Circle) in terms of recognition.
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Old Jul 23, 2015, 5:55 am
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Originally Posted by Land-of-Miles
Agree here, I rarely have an issue checking out at 4pm even at CP's on reward stays.
Well for CPs it's nice that they do it, but AMB or RA should not really matter for that and more Plat or now Spire should be the deciding factor.

However, for IC properties the 4:00PM late checkout benefit for AMB and RA is one of the few benefits that is actually applicable / granted as per T&Cs when on a reward stay.
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Old Jul 24, 2015, 4:09 am
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50% RA bonus gone?

Is the 50% RA bonus gone? I had an IC stay post last week and received the 100% Spire bonus + 50% RA bonus. This morning, I had another IC stay post, and only received the 100% Spire bonus. Just to be clear, these were stays at InterContinentals, not other IHG brands.

If this is true, that means RAs receive no net benefit improvement from the new 100% Spire bonus when staying at IC properties. In a way, this may be good news, since it should reduce the chances of a massive devaluation.
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Old Jul 24, 2015, 7:21 am
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Originally Posted by The Mileage Millionaire
Is the 50% RA bonus gone? I had an IC stay post last week and received the 100% Spire bonus + 50% RA bonus. This morning, I had another IC stay post, and only received the 100% Spire bonus. Just to be clear, these were stays at InterContinentals, not other IHG brands.

If this is true, that means RAs receive no net benefit improvement from the new 100% Spire bonus when staying at IC properties. In a way, this may be good news, since it should reduce the chances of a massive devaluation.
I have a slightly different experience.... last week received 100% & RA Bonus, this morning no Elite bonus, only the 50% RA one ... both IC properties.
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Old Jul 25, 2015, 8:34 am
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Originally Posted by stimpy
it's a negative speculation and I disagree for the short term (1-2 years). IHG recently had a significant devaluation yet they capped IC's at 50K points. IHG is now the industry leader when it comes to awards and I don't see them abandoning that.
Stimpy, how can IHG be the industry leader, when they don't provide benefits on award stays? I think that is the major downfall of their program
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Old Jul 25, 2015, 11:03 am
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Originally Posted by Tim O'Brien
Stimpy, how can IHG be the industry leader, when they don't provide benefits on award stays? I think that is the major downfall of their program
Well that is no difference to paid stays , IHG do not guarantee a rooms type level upgrade on paid stay AND neither do Hilton who's terms state space available upgrade

That said IHG hotels who consistently upgrade paid guests a room level also upgrade on award nights. I lack USA experience but elsewhere UK/Europe/Asia the IHG brands consistently upgrade me across all brands , excepting HIE in Europe that seem to have just one room category

Similar experience at the IC Brand as Ambasador/RA where although paid stays have guaranteed upgrade, the hotels also upgrade Ambassadors on award nights
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Old Jul 25, 2015, 11:16 am
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Originally Posted by scubaccr
Well that is no difference to paid stays , IHG do not guarantee a rooms type level upgrade on paid stay AND neither do Hilton who's terms state space available upgrade

That said IHG hotels who consistently upgrade paid guests a room level also upgrade on award nights. I lack USA experience but elsewhere UK/Europe/Asia the IHG brands consistently upgrade me across all brands , excepting HIE in Europe that seem to have just one room category

Similar experience at the IC Brand as Ambasador/RA where although paid stays have guaranteed upgrade, the hotels also upgrade Ambassadors on award nights
i'm referring to IC award stays, under their T&C, no obligation for them to provide upgrades, nor free mini bar etc.
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Old Jul 25, 2015, 11:58 am
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Originally Posted by Tim O'Brien
i'm referring to IC award stays, under their T&C, no obligation for them to provide upgrades, nor free mini bar etc.
You would be nuts to stay at an IC property that chooses not to upgrade at all though in this way. Few do in my experience but I agree it is a major gap compared to other programmes in terms of consistency. IHG does seem to be a chain where many status benefits are voluntarily given by the individual properties rather than mandated by the centre. This makes it difficult to choose which properties to book.
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