Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Information Desk
Reload this Page >

EU 261 definition of scheduled arrival time

EU 261 definition of scheduled arrival time

Reply

Old Aug 10, 18, 5:54 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 5
EU 261 definition of scheduled arrival time

Hi
I'm looking at a possible EU 261 claim that relies on how scheduled arrival time is defined and whether it is the arrival time given at the time of booking:
  • our flight from Greece to London was delayed by about 2h45
  • but the flight had previously been put back by 30 minutes on both departure and arrival times
  • EasyJet advised me of the change 25 days before departure
The effect of all this is we arrived more than 3 hours after the scheduled arrival time given when I bought the tickets.
I had expected the regulations would say that because they gave more than two weeks' notice of the change, I could not claim compensation. But - at least as I understand the regulations - the two weeks notice is only in respect of cancelled flights. I can't see a time period or a definition of scheduled arrival time.

Also, slightly in my favour here, 7(2) refers to "the scheduled arrival time of the flight originally booked". I think in context, that is to distinguish from the re-routed flight. But it's not as if the airlines can reschedule the morning of the flight, so if not then, when can they?

What do you think, everyone?

Thank you

Robert
robcmorgan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 18, 6:45 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, SPG, Hilton Gold, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,142
It is based on what the flight was scheduled to fly on that day. So, in this instance it includes the rescheduled time you were made aware of 25 days out,.
robcmorgan likes this.
Yoshi212 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 18, 6:49 pm
  #3  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 5
Thank you, but wouldn't that mean the airline could just change the scheduled arrival time in the morning and never pay for a delay again?
robcmorgan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 18, 2:33 am
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Berlin, Germany; Toronto, Canada; and SW Florida, USA
Programs: UA Premier Platinum, BA Gold, Hyatt Globalist, and assorted others
Posts: 21,043
If you are notified of a schedule change more than 14 days out, no EC261 compensation is due.
Yoshi212 likes this.
LondonElite is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 12, 18, 1:31 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite, HH G
Posts: 4,637
I agree with the previous posters + Easyjet is unlikely to pay any comp. (at least voluntarily). I suggest to move on.
SK AAR is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 12, 18, 2:29 am
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Berlin, Germany; Toronto, Canada; and SW Florida, USA
Programs: UA Premier Platinum, BA Gold, Hyatt Globalist, and assorted others
Posts: 21,043
You can have a refund or a reschedule. Your choice.
LondonElite is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 12, 18, 6:08 pm
  #7  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by SK AAR View Post
I agree with the previous posters + Easyjet is unlikely to pay any comp. (at least voluntarily). I suggest to move on.
Thanks everyone, I'm sure you know more than me, but I'm trying to understand where it actually says this in law? As far as I can see from the regulations, it doesn't specify 14 days in the case of a schedule change (only a cancellation). So it seems a simple case of the airline failing to deliver on the contract made at the point I bought a ticket.

Does anyone know if this has been tested anywhere? Or is there another regulation?
I'm sure the airline won't want to pay out, but it's not really up to them, is it?
robcmorgan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 12, 18, 6:15 pm
  #8  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 5
Thanks everyone. Does anyone know where it specifies a 14 day period for schedule changes? It doesn't seem to be in the regulations, so is there a further regulation or decision?

I am sure the airline won't want to pay out, but they never do, and it's not really up to them, is it? The ticket I bought contracted to get me there by a certain time, and they didn't do so. That's one position. If there's another way to look at it, does anyone know where that is specified?

Thanks again.
robcmorgan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 12, 18, 6:22 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, SPG, Hilton Gold, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,142
You purchased a ticket which entered you into a contract with the airline to transport you from one place to another on a date and time BUT with guidelines you agree to in the CcO for as to the schedule, change to and reasons why which are all in the airline's favor. Easyjet owes you nothing for this flight.

It's time to move on from this.

Originally Posted by robcmorgan View Post
Thanks everyone. Does anyone know where it specifies a 14 day period for schedule changes? It doesn't seem to be in the regulations, so is there a further regulation or decision?

I am sure the airline won't want to pay out, but they never do, and it's not really up to them, is it? The ticket I bought contracted to get me there by a certain time, and they didn't do so. That's one position. If there's another way to look at it, does anyone know where that is specified?

Thanks again.
Yoshi212 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 12, 18, 6:33 pm
  #10  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Yoshi212 View Post
You purchased a ticket which entered you into a contract with the airline to transport you from one place to another on a date and time BUT with guidelines you agree to in the CcO for as to the schedule, change to and reasons why which are all in the airline's favor. Easyjet owes you nothing for this flight.

It's time to move on from this.
I'm sorry, I don't know what a CcO is, or understand how my contract waives, clarifies or amends a regulation which I understand to be EU law.

Thank you for your time, I apologise for my ignorance, Yoshi.
robcmorgan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 12, 18, 7:02 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, SPG, Hilton Gold, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,142
We've all started at some point not knowing the lingo so don't worry about that. There is a glossary section here on FT also that is a good way to pick up some abbreviations and such.
CcC is Contract of Carriage. It's the general fare rules, regulations and contract engaged when you purchase a ticket with an airline. It will include fees and restrictions you'd have to pay to alter the contract. The contract is very much so in favor the airline. EU261 is a regulation that goes above and around CoC. But just because it says you're entitled to compensation if you arrive x hours late for a flight y miles long it doesn't mean the airline can't change its schedule. You agree to schedule changes in the CoC and EU-261 provides protection from schedule changes with a hefty payout if the airline changes within a short period before the date of travel which protects you from the situation you expressed concern about above.
For your individual situation you were notified of a rather minor change 30 days in advance which makes EU-261 moot.

Originally Posted by robcmorgan View Post
I'm sorry, I don't know what a CcO is, or understand how my contract waives, clarifies or amends a regulation which I understand to be EU law.

Thank you for your time, I apologise for my ignorance, Yoshi.
Yoshi212 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 13, 18, 3:30 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite, HH G
Posts: 4,637
Originally Posted by robcmorgan View Post
) So it seems a simple case of the airline failing to deliver on the contract made at the point I bought a ticket.
No, you were notified of the schedule change well in advance of your travel date - did you react/complain to EasyJet/request to cancel and refund ticket because the schedule change didn't suit you? Most likely you didn't react to the notification of the schedule change, i.e. it was accepted from your end. Then you cannot invoke an involuntary schedule change 1 month later. I can assure you that EC Reg. 261/04 can't be invoked in this situation.

However, I agree with you on the point that technically art. 5 about cancellation does not apply to schedule changes, but in reality the airlines can't circumvent the law on delay (which is derived from EC case law rather than EC regulation itself) by notifying you of schedule change shortly before departure when in reality it is a delayed departure. But where to draw the thin line allowing the airlines to notify a schedule change is difficult to predict.
SK AAR is online now  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: