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[ISO advice] SFO/SJC home airports: Leaving AA -> AS/VA or UA?

[ISO advice] SFO/SJC home airports: Leaving AA -> AS/VA or UA?

Old Feb 16, 2018, 7:49 am
  #1  
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[ISO advice] SFO/SJC home airports: Leaving AA -> AS/VA or UA?

My home airports are SJC and SFO. After several years of AA EXP or PLT, I've finally fallen back to basic Gold (Million Miler). Given the downhill trend of AA customer service, and that while I'd be willing to pay $2K for EXP, I'm not willing to pay the $1500 they're asking for, for the GLD->PLT buy-up and the impossibility of ever getting from 1.6M miles to 2M miles for lifetime PLT it just doesn't seem worth the hassle of always taking 1-stops on AA when I could be flying AS/VA or UA nonstop to most of my destinations (primarily DCA (2-3x/yr), NYC/EWR (2-3x/yr), RDU (1-2x/yr), AUS (1-2x/yr), SEA (1-2x/yr), etc.).

I matched my AA PLT to AS/VA MVP Gold, and have United Silver via Marriott. Now, I'm trying to figure out where to move my loyalty to. My work has shifted from int'l to mostly domestic, so if I fly UA, for instance, so I might only fly 50K miles a year. 3 considerations, though, wrt UA: (1) I have the United Club Card and am just realizing that their lounges are pretty good; (2) I'm getting too old (and enjoy time with my family too much) for mileage runs, so I might do 1, maybe 2, tops, per year; and (3) I'm increasingly willing to pay $250-500 extra r/t for transcon premium class.

So my assessment of the relative benefits, and how much weight I put on each one, on a scale of 1 to 10 per benefit (which includes some thought to how much better each benefit is relative to the other airline):

AS/VA:
- (6) Better customer service (on the plane, but also whether they bump, and how they handle requests for flight changes, or standby)
- (5) Greater likelihood of premium class upgrades
- (4) Better FF benefits at a level I'd maintain???
- (2) AS credit card companion offer
Subtotal: 17

UA:
- (7) Better scheduling and more nonstop routes out of SFO???
- (6) *A award redemptions (int'l family vacations)
- (5) *A reciprocal benefits (premium seats, lounges, etc.)
- (5) Better lounges??? and can access via UA Club Card
Subtotal: 23

And for kicks, AA:
- (5) Better planes???
- (3) Better European/African coverage via partner networks
- (1) Plodding toward 2M miler before I die, maybe...
Subtotal: 8

So, as you can tell, I'm leaning toward UA.

Am I missing anything?

Anyone out there recently spent time on both AS/VA and UA, and have an opinion on what I should do?
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Old Feb 17, 2018, 11:05 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Between SFO and STS
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold, United Serf, Delta Gold
Posts: 731
What about the EQDs? Would you easily spend $6K on UA to get gold with those 50K miles? With AS/VX (it's VX btw) there is no minimum spend and you can qualify for gold with 40K miles on only AS/VX. And, you'll earn more RDMs on AS/VX as well (double actual miles flown for golds on most economy fares).
You can still collect UA miles and book *A awards without flying through CC spend.
If schedule is really important, UA is better.
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Old Feb 17, 2018, 11:18 pm
  #3  
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I won't definitely spend $6K, but I could pretty easily get a PQD waiver by spending $25K on my United Club card.

It looks like you've been flying VX (thx for the correction) out of SFO. How's your luck been wrt upgrades?
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Old Feb 18, 2018, 9:51 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Between SFO and STS
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AS and VX have different upgrade policies - I would highly suggest spending some time in the Alaska Airlines forum familiarizing yourself with the various pros and cons of the program. I myself am pretty new to the game, so I spend way too much time reading about all the business. But, as a minor Avgeek, it's better use of my free time than Facebook at this point... There are a lot of intricacies to the program - especially about redeeming international awards on partners.
The upgrade process for AS is pretty straightforward, but does require the rare prodding at the gate. As a Gold MVP, many of the fare classes qualify for premium class upgrades at booking and you can book exit rows at booking as well. Upgrades to first would depend on the route, but I would imagine you'd be close to 100% out of SJC, but less so out of SFO (especially with all those transcons).
The VX upgrade process is more nebulous and is suffering from neglect and the integration process. Elite AS members (the VX Elevate program has already been assimilated) flying alone can request an upgrade to Main Cabin Select when booking (or just after if booked through AS). When traveling with a nonelite, VX Twitter seems to be the best to request the upgrade at T-24. There are no first class upgrades on VX - you can buy up (and that's cheaper once already upgraded to MCS). On April 25th, VX gets fully incorporated into AS and the upgrade process goes over to the straightforward AS process.
I've only flown VX thus far this year and I haven't been upgraded to MCS - both flights were full and I'm a lowly MVP.
The other thing you might want to consider is pairing your AA status with AS for international travel as you can still earn & redeem on international AA flights. Just a thought.
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Last edited by DrAlex; Feb 18, 2018 at 10:00 am
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Old Feb 18, 2018, 9:12 pm
  #5  
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Originally Posted by DrAlex
I've only flown VX thus far this year and I haven't been upgraded to MCS - both flights were full and I'm a lowly MVP.
I've cleared 7 of 8 on-line requests this year, all requested on the Virgin website. I've had 4 additional flights where I did not request the upgrade because it looked like I would end up with a middle seat on the return flight, so I'm particular as to which flights I make the request. Looking forward to April 25 when the Alaska upgrade rules fall into place for first class. I suspect MCS, as we know it, will just become another premium seat elites can select from, minus the free food and unlimited alcohol options, after that date.

One negative with Alaska/Virgin is that some of its routes leave SFO in the morning, which is convenient to me, but then the return flight from the east coast is between 5-6pm when I fly home. I can work with that schedule as I have plenty of time, but it might be tough for a business traveler with only one flight a day. Think of routes like SFO-BWI and SFO-MCO as examples.

As to award travel, could not be happier. I have two Qantas awards booked this year, one in business to Australia, and one in first class home from Australia with a free stopover in Sydney. AA, for comparison, does not allow a free stopover in Australia with their miles. Booked with Alaska this cost me 125,000 miles. Same trip with AA would have cost 190,000 miles. I'm finding my Alaska miles are much more valuable than my AA miles.
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Old Feb 18, 2018, 11:33 pm
  #6  
 
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I'd argue that UA would likely be your best bet for a number of reasons:
  • SFO/SJC is UA hub which combined with their extensive network throughout the US means more non-stops
  • Updates can be had relatively inexpensive (we've been seen checkin offers of $249 USD for SFO - EWR route)
  • UA operates 767/777/787 on many hub to hub and transcontinental service meaning lie-flat beds on those red eyes and better service
  • More UA cubs nationwide (lounges of the domestic carriers are all about the same which is to say not that great)
  • UA is member of *A meaning you'll have benefits of status (i.e. lounge, priority boarding, etc.) along with the most comprehensive route network in the world
  • UA has the million miler program which is even more generous than the AA one which gives you and your companion Gold status at 1M miles
The main benefits I see with AS is that milage redemption can be more lucrative and upgrades would be a lot easier since SFO/SJC isn't a hub for AS. Another rub with AS is that everyone is leaving them. Whereas they could boast partner benefits with DL and AA 2 years ago (i.e. priority boarding and seat selection) none of that is true anymore and I suspect with VX joining them, there will be fewer airlines wanting to partner. There's also some uncertainty with the milage programs now that AS has purchased VX (airlines have been known to play around with these things post merger).

Those are my 2 cents.

Safe Travels,

James
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Old Feb 19, 2018, 12:25 pm
  #7  
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Thanks @DrAlex and @tom911 for the upgrade reports. They sounds promising, as do FF redemptions.

@j2simpso: I didn't know that about UA lifetime Gold. But I only have 275K lifetime miles on UA, and butt-in-seat qual will take me 15 yrs at 50K mi./yr, during which time they might move the goal posts. If I considered lifetime qual and butt-in-seat miles, AA would show up back on my radar b/c I'm at 1.6M miles and could reach 2M in ~8 yrs. Though companion status would be nice to try and get the kids on the upgrade list, too.

The latest piece of the puzzle this w/e was reading about credit card acceleration. With AA's Citi Exec and Barclays Aviator Silver cards, I can add 20K EQMs, but I don't have a similar route with United (b/c their cards that earn EQMs are closed to new applicants) or Alaska. I'm feeling uncomfortably like I'm leading myself back to AA and a lifetime of 1-stops to the East Coast.

Last edited by pl804; Feb 19, 2018 at 12:25 pm Reason: Missing space
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Old Feb 19, 2018, 1:42 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Between SFO and STS
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What's that additional 20K EQM going to get you on AA? There is a small difference between PLT& PLT Pro (I don't think the cards exempt the $6-9K EQDs on AA?)... You would definitely miss a lot of free upgrades as UA Gold, but you'd consistently get an economy plus seat - I guess you could always pay to upgrade. Scheduling is probably the biggest argument for UA on your list. If you have the United Club Card, you don't have to be flying United to use the lounges, BTW... Although T3 at SFO doesn't connect to T2 airside...
You could devote all that spending to a card that has a more diverse portfolio of redemption options and value (Amex Plat or CSR) and use that to redeem *A awards or whatever you'd like. Just tossing around ideas here.
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Old Feb 19, 2018, 6:36 pm
  #9  
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I suppose it might let me feel less pressure to travel 50K miles, and only need to travel 30K, or spread my extra travel on other airlines for convenience, e.g., scheduling. Supposedly the Aviator Silver Card waives $3K EQD per $25K spend, up to $6K/50K.
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Old Feb 19, 2018, 8:12 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Fair enough. But I will say that you technically only need 40K on purely AS/VX to achieve MVP Gold (without any EQD requirements). And, you'd earn significantly more RDMs through AS as well (100% RDM bonus on most economy fares). - you are just more limited on partners and the redemption can become tricky on international awards (since that's something you are planning on doing). And you are more limited on schedule.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with TPG, but they've put together some good guides this year on approximate worth of various elite statuses - that may be helpful to you as well.
AA: https://thepointsguy.com/guide/what-...-status-worth/
UA: https://thepointsguy.com/guide/what-...-status-worth/
AS: https://thepointsguy.com/guide/what-...-status-worth/
Head-to head: https://thepointsguy.com/guide/the-b...atus-programs/
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 1:34 am
  #11  
 
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Keep in mind that it's possible to earn status on *A partner programs for far less than the 50,000 miles UA requires. For instance, OZ allows you to earn Diamond status (equivalent to *A Gold) by simply flying 40,000 miles every 24 months. A3 allows you to acquire it's *A Gold status by collecting 48,000 tier points in year 1 then collecting 24,000 in subsequent years (A3 used to be super easy to get Gold status if I recall correctly it was collecting 24,000 tier points gave you 3 years status on A3). One major benefit of having status with a foreign *A airline is you can waltz into a United club anytime you want so long as you are flying a *A airline (even if it's strictly a UA domestic itinerary). That would save you money off a UA club membership. Milage accrual may also be better since it's based on distance flown and not money spent. You also get all of the other benefits tied to *A Gold, namely priority everything.

The downsides of holding foreign *A status would be not having access to UA specific benefits like CPUs, GPUs and RPUs along with complimentary Economy+ seating.

Would be interesting hearing from fellow FTers which *A program is best if you don't fly a lot on *A but want the perks of *A Gold.

Safe Travels,

James
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 1:42 pm
  #12  
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@j2simpso: For some reason, I don't know why, I find it hard to get excited about using an overseas airline to hold my primary status with. Maybe it's b/c I worry I might not follow things well or that I might not be treated fairly by their US partner. Is that silly?

Last night, after reading the TPG articles @DrAlex had posted, I had booked several upcoming transcon flights on AS, but am now having buyer's remorse and thinking of canceling within the 24-hr window. I find myself spending $600-1000 per year on UA E+ seats for our family, and thought, if I center on AS, I would probably want to buy an E+ subscription, which would cost $900. And if I'm doing that anyway, is there a way I can get to Platinum on UA and not have to worry about that subscription? It seems that UA still gives EQM multiplier based on fare type, which it appears that AS doesn't do at all. I like having the flexibility of being able to spend more to qualify, vs. having to log the butt-in-seat miles with AS to re-qual. Finally, I emailed UA status match and it appears that they might let me status challenge with my AS MVP Gold. I'm not excited about Gold, but if I could find find a way to Platinum, that starts to become attractive. Of course, all of this would be solved if I were related to someone with 1K status and an open matching slot.

I have about 8 hours to figure out whether to cancel the AS flights and rebook on UA.
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Old Feb 21, 2018, 12:20 am
  #13  
 
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Originally Posted by pl804
@j2simpso: For some reason, I don't know why, I find it hard to get excited about using an overseas airline to hold my primary status with. Maybe it's b/c I worry I might not follow things well or that I might not be treated fairly by their US partner. Is that silly?
Shouldn't have problems being treated fairly by UA with a foreign status, having spoken to people holding status on other airlines programs (namely AC and A3). That's arguably the one nice thing about *A is that they enforce standards across the boards for their airline partners. As a UA Gold I've had benefits to all the *A Gold benefits when travelling on partner airlines. For instance, when flying on EgyptAir last month I had business class boarding, security, immigration and of course access to their lounges in CAI and DXB. I've received similar treatment when flying other *A partners including LX, LH, AC and NZ.

Having said all that, the one thing you will lose is access to UA specific benefits like complimentary E+ seating, complimentary and certificate upgrades. That's one of the reason I use their program (in addition to there being no revenue requirement as I'm Canadian). Have you considered just aiming for UA Gold (50,000 miles annually?). For many that's a sweet spot since it gives you *A Gold benefits. More importantly you get Economy+ seating free for yourself and 1 other at time of booking. Platinum is always nice to aim for but at the end of the day doesn't make a huge difference (you get 8 guests for Economy+ seating, 2 Regional Premier Upgrade certificates which may or may not clear when you need them and reduced award booking/change fees).

There's nothing wrong with flying AA out of SFO/SJC. In fact it may work in your favour since fares will tend to be cheaper, you're more likely to get upgrades (less elites at SFO) and will be on your way to lifetime AA Platinum. One thing you should ask yourself is if lifetime Platinum on AA is worth it for you (i.e. is it a big leap from Gold?). No point chasing status just for the sake of saying you're Platinum.

If I was you I'd recommend experimenting with the service offerings of AS, AA and UA to see how well the overall experience is for you on these routings. Don't commit to any airline until you know which one delivers the best experience. For me, based out of YYZ, UA is the answer since their fares tend to be much less than AC, their presence in YYZ and the destinations I go are significant and their service was good (esp in the area of service recovery, maybe cause I'm a Gold?).

Safe Travels,

James
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Old Feb 22, 2018, 9:57 am
  #14  
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So to close this out, here's what I decided on:
  • Prioritize AS and try to maintain 40K mi. on their metal. The 4 one-way guest upgrades are nice for family.
  • Fill in w/ UA and AA when the schedule means that it's significantly easier on the family (or me, if it's a busy week).
    • Buy an E+ subscription for the family when on UA (since we typically do 3-5 one-ways per year on UA).
    • Keep my UA/AA credit cards for Admirals Club and United Club access when flying UA and AA.
So I figure I'm paying an extra $2K or so as "insurance" when flying on UA and AA, which I figure is reasonable.

The main reason for this, BTW, is b/c Gold and Platinum simply don't seem to offer much to make it worth maintaining those. I fell from EXP to Plat this past year, and got upgraded maybe 1x out of 5-6 trips; so it's basically just about early boarding and MCE seats. I'll miss free early MCE seats as AA Gold, so ironically, that will tilt me toward using UA more since I plan to get an E+ subscription. But b/c UA has better routes out of SFO, and aiming for 2MM status on AA seems like a ridiculous quest, I think that will work out alright.

The only nagging thing in my mind is that I might regret not centering on UA to get 1MM status, so I'll try this configuration for this year, see how AS delivers, and then re-evaluate at the end of the year.

Thx everyone for your help!
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