Best business class using points NYC to SYD and/or MEL
Jul 8, 2017, 6:27 am
#16
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As others have said, you need to take what you can get. This is going to be a time-consuming exercise, possibly involving building your own itinerary using different airlines/alliances for outbound and inbound. I suggest you start by searching for flights from NYC, then fan out to places like ORD/IAD and possibly west coast. Be open to connections through Asia (long flights).
You will understand that FT is not an award booking service! Good luck.
You will understand that FT is not an award booking service! Good luck.
Jul 10, 2017, 3:09 pm
#18
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Some thoughts from experience (we are going next year - originally planned for spring but now the fall but I went through this once when the earlier time frame and have booked it before on another trip to Australia in 2014):
United: United (via UR) is tricky at the moment. The new search engine logic and requirement that agents only go by what the computer shows has resulted in lots of garbage from NYC (it excludes double connect options that I used to use like JFK - ICN - BKK - SYD and doesn't seem to ever find JFK - NRT / HND - SYD space). Every once in a while it will find JFK - ICN - SYD space which is a decent option on OZ. The A380 to ICN is great but the 777 from SYD I believe still occasionally sees the angle-flat product which is not great for an 11 hour overnight flight - the A330 is guaranteed to be angle-flat so avoid at all costs.
I have been able to get some slightly better options with UA when searching JFK - BNE / AKL sometimes getting JFK - TPE - BKK (BR J which is a good product) - BNE/AKL.
One benefit of UA is they don't pass along fuel surcharges so you are only looking at the taxes and fees. The new excursionist policy means you can OJ from SYD to MEL or you can use the excursionist policy to book a flight from SYD to MEL but since NZ is the only *A partner in the region you'd have to go SYD - AKL - MEL.
AA: Well QF and AA are options but good luck with that. I once was able to book two QF J tickets for JFK - LAX - BNE using AS miles (that trip ended up becoming Singapore so they were eventually canceled) but they are true unicorns. For AS they showed up at 3am EST exactly 330 days ahead of time, I believe AA is probably around the same time. Typically gone within 10 minutes. Any other option is going to cost extra miles because AA doesn't let you connect via Asia to go to Australia so that's not worth exploring.
Aeroplan: Shows some of the double connections that UA used to show which is nice downside. Aeroplan also shows SQ inventory and will give you online access to SQ regional J flights which UA doesn't. Downside is Aeroplan passes along all fuel surcharges so you are going to be hit with big fuel surcharges. Aeroplan also allows two stopovers so you can potentially do JFK - ICN - SYD (stopover) - AKL (destination) - MEL (stopover) - BKK - ICN - JFK as one ticket.
In terms of *A airlines (booked with UA or Aeroplan) this is what you are looking at for J:
NZ - Herringbone J seats
CA - Open "ottoman style" J seats on the A330 (2-2-2) and the UA J style seats on the 777 (2-2-2). I flew the A330 SYD - PEK back in 2014 and thought it was perfectly fine for an overnight flight where all I wanted was sleep
UA - 787 more or less same seat as the CA 777 but with the new Polaris service and the 787 benefits
OZ - A380 is a great plane and 1-2-1 in J. 777 has the same seat for the most part but you can potentially run into angle-flats or a swap to the A330 with angle-flats
NH - 777 and 787 are both 1-2-1 and very good in my opinion
BR - 777 (Royal Laurel) from the US is great. Reverse herringbone (same as CX and AA J on the 777). The A330 down to BNE is angle lie-flat
Other options: If you have enough UR, you can explore transferring those to Korean Airlines. You want to avoid peak seasons but they have good availability to go JFK - ICN - SYD - ICN - JFK (no MEL flight). You could also do OW on KE say JFK - ICN - SYD and then return from MEL using *A (Aeroplan).
United: United (via UR) is tricky at the moment. The new search engine logic and requirement that agents only go by what the computer shows has resulted in lots of garbage from NYC (it excludes double connect options that I used to use like JFK - ICN - BKK - SYD and doesn't seem to ever find JFK - NRT / HND - SYD space). Every once in a while it will find JFK - ICN - SYD space which is a decent option on OZ. The A380 to ICN is great but the 777 from SYD I believe still occasionally sees the angle-flat product which is not great for an 11 hour overnight flight - the A330 is guaranteed to be angle-flat so avoid at all costs.
I have been able to get some slightly better options with UA when searching JFK - BNE / AKL sometimes getting JFK - TPE - BKK (BR J which is a good product) - BNE/AKL.
One benefit of UA is they don't pass along fuel surcharges so you are only looking at the taxes and fees. The new excursionist policy means you can OJ from SYD to MEL or you can use the excursionist policy to book a flight from SYD to MEL but since NZ is the only *A partner in the region you'd have to go SYD - AKL - MEL.
AA: Well QF and AA are options but good luck with that. I once was able to book two QF J tickets for JFK - LAX - BNE using AS miles (that trip ended up becoming Singapore so they were eventually canceled) but they are true unicorns. For AS they showed up at 3am EST exactly 330 days ahead of time, I believe AA is probably around the same time. Typically gone within 10 minutes. Any other option is going to cost extra miles because AA doesn't let you connect via Asia to go to Australia so that's not worth exploring.
Aeroplan: Shows some of the double connections that UA used to show which is nice downside. Aeroplan also shows SQ inventory and will give you online access to SQ regional J flights which UA doesn't. Downside is Aeroplan passes along all fuel surcharges so you are going to be hit with big fuel surcharges. Aeroplan also allows two stopovers so you can potentially do JFK - ICN - SYD (stopover) - AKL (destination) - MEL (stopover) - BKK - ICN - JFK as one ticket.
In terms of *A airlines (booked with UA or Aeroplan) this is what you are looking at for J:
NZ - Herringbone J seats
CA - Open "ottoman style" J seats on the A330 (2-2-2) and the UA J style seats on the 777 (2-2-2). I flew the A330 SYD - PEK back in 2014 and thought it was perfectly fine for an overnight flight where all I wanted was sleep
UA - 787 more or less same seat as the CA 777 but with the new Polaris service and the 787 benefits
OZ - A380 is a great plane and 1-2-1 in J. 777 has the same seat for the most part but you can potentially run into angle-flats or a swap to the A330 with angle-flats
NH - 777 and 787 are both 1-2-1 and very good in my opinion
BR - 777 (Royal Laurel) from the US is great. Reverse herringbone (same as CX and AA J on the 777). The A330 down to BNE is angle lie-flat
Other options: If you have enough UR, you can explore transferring those to Korean Airlines. You want to avoid peak seasons but they have good availability to go JFK - ICN - SYD - ICN - JFK (no MEL flight). You could also do OW on KE say JFK - ICN - SYD and then return from MEL using *A (Aeroplan).
Jul 10, 2017, 6:24 pm
#19
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When, and by whom?
The best BA F product is the A380, and the other aircraft are not inspiring at all. On the A380, service can be hit or miss. It certainly was when we flew BA F LHR-SFO in F recently. (Even the hard product was showing some wear and tear.)
The best BA F product is the A380, and the other aircraft are not inspiring at all. On the A380, service can be hit or miss. It certainly was when we flew BA F LHR-SFO in F recently. (Even the hard product was showing some wear and tear.)
Jul 13, 2017, 5:26 am
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 100
Back again. Have grabbed outbound on QF (minor miracle from the sounds of it) but inbound is dicier. Business class options include OZ, CZ, LA and MU. Back to original question, would appreciate thoughts on their business class products. OZ seems best to me but it is the most awkward itinerary. I am not a regular business class flyer so would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks!
Jul 13, 2017, 5:43 am
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 100
Thank you! @Duke787! You said...
"Aeroplan also allows two stopovers so you can potentially do JFK - ICN - SYD (stopover) - AKL (destination) - MEL (stopover) - BKK - ICN - JFK as one ticket."
Not sure if I understand this correctly, and at this point the inbound is separate from the outbound, but this might be just the ticket (it's a pun!) for us as the OZ routing has a 15 hour layover in ICN. Does this mean we could turn that into a stopover and, say, spend two or three nights in order to be able to see city for a full day and then continue on?
"Aeroplan also allows two stopovers so you can potentially do JFK - ICN - SYD (stopover) - AKL (destination) - MEL (stopover) - BKK - ICN - JFK as one ticket."
Not sure if I understand this correctly, and at this point the inbound is separate from the outbound, but this might be just the ticket (it's a pun!) for us as the OZ routing has a 15 hour layover in ICN. Does this mean we could turn that into a stopover and, say, spend two or three nights in order to be able to see city for a full day and then continue on?
Last edited by AnnaMcD; Jul 13, 2017 at 5:52 am Reason: clarity
I think perhaps you may have missed the tongue-in-cheek aspect of the comment?
Jul 13, 2017, 7:34 am
#25
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Thank you! @Duke787! You said...
"Aeroplan also allows two stopovers so you can potentially do JFK - ICN - SYD (stopover) - AKL (destination) - MEL (stopover) - BKK - ICN - JFK as one ticket."
Not sure if I understand this correctly, and at this point the inbound is separate from the outbound, but this might be just the ticket (it's a pun!) for us as the OZ routing has a 15 hour layover in ICN. Does this mean we could turn that into a stopover and, say, spend two or three nights in order to be able to see city for a full day and then continue on?
"Aeroplan also allows two stopovers so you can potentially do JFK - ICN - SYD (stopover) - AKL (destination) - MEL (stopover) - BKK - ICN - JFK as one ticket."
Not sure if I understand this correctly, and at this point the inbound is separate from the outbound, but this might be just the ticket (it's a pun!) for us as the OZ routing has a 15 hour layover in ICN. Does this mean we could turn that into a stopover and, say, spend two or three nights in order to be able to see city for a full day and then continue on?
Another option is using UA miles to fly J or F from SYD to SE Asia (Hong Kong, Singapore, Bangkok being the ones that come to mind) for just 30k or 40k/person (this is one of the best values on UA miles) and spend a couple days in one of those 3 cities and then book using Aeroplan HKG/SIN/BKK - JFK flights in J. Note this will definitely cost more miles than the original but is relatively cheaper since the SYD - SIN/BKK/HKG awards are a very good value buy at the moment (though changing with the November devaluation).
Jul 13, 2017, 11:12 am
#27
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@Duke787 I LOVE the UA plus Aeroplan idea! Have never been to Singapore and husband has never been to Hong Kong so either of them would be great to spend a few days in! Thank you so much!
SYD - BKK is a 9+ hour flight so IMO it's completely worth the extra 10k miles/person for F (I've done it the other way BKK - SYD which is an overnight flight though granted it was 2 devaluations ago and part of a bigger US - Australia round trip).
Jul 13, 2017, 10:18 pm
#30
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BR has a great product and departure time to allow for sleep and connections to the flight. OZ 222 leaves early in the AM.
@Duke787. Last question. Nabbed QF SYD > HKG for 40K. Can choose between OZ 222 on a A380-800 or BR 32 on a 777-300ER for longhaul back to JFK (BR has shorter layover but not by all that much). Thoughts?