Marketing your status
Oct 1, 2014, 11:18 am
#61
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Posts: 7,318
You say you don't want to engage in shady business. Well, it's shady. If you don't agree with everyone else who points out its shady, simply because we do not have proof that someone has gotten in trouble for doing the exact same thing, you seem to have made up your mind and refuse to acknowledge risk.
Comparing "marketing your status" (using your MileagePlus (TM) benefits) as a reason to hire you to simply showing up with a stranger at the check-in desk is a strawman argument. If you "marketed your status" once in a private email, or maybe twice, I agree, United would not take action. If you set up a website, print material, and do this as a business, it likely would.
I cannot think of a more clear cut case of abusing elite benefits than selling them to strangers (whether bundled with the privilege of flying with such a well-informed traveler as you or not).
Oct 1, 2014, 11:49 am
#62
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tampa/Orlando
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 109
You're missing the point: It would be against most or all airlines' rules about nonrev travel to have the former airline employee fly nonrev for what you are calling the third trip. Nonrev privileges cannot be used for business travel; sending the former airline employee home in the middle of the trip is business travel.
Oct 1, 2014, 12:40 pm
#63
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tampa/Orlando
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 109
As I have repeatedly stated, a Customer Care email is worthless. Putting aside that you now have reformulated what their email says for the 5th time ("having no policy prohibiting" is far different from "blessing", and does not preclude UA from finding you abused the program even though no specific policy was violated), United MileagePlus retains discretion at all times to change its mind as to whether to kick you out of its program for whatever reason you want. (The case law establishing this has been cited in the thread already.)
You say you don't want to engage in shady business. Well, it's shady. If you don't agree with everyone else who points out its shady, simply because we do not have proof that someone has gotten in trouble for doing the exact same thing, you seem to have made up your mind and refuse to acknowledge risk.
Comparing "marketing your status" (using your MileagePlus (TM) benefits) as a reason to hire you to simply showing up with a stranger at the check-in desk is a strawman argument. If you "marketed your status" once in a private email, or maybe twice, I agree, United would not take action. If you set up a website, print material, and do this as a business, it likely would.
I cannot think of a more clear cut case of abusing elite benefits than selling them to strangers (whether bundled with the privilege of flying with such a well-informed traveler as you or not).
You say you don't want to engage in shady business. Well, it's shady. If you don't agree with everyone else who points out its shady, simply because we do not have proof that someone has gotten in trouble for doing the exact same thing, you seem to have made up your mind and refuse to acknowledge risk.
Comparing "marketing your status" (using your MileagePlus (TM) benefits) as a reason to hire you to simply showing up with a stranger at the check-in desk is a strawman argument. If you "marketed your status" once in a private email, or maybe twice, I agree, United would not take action. If you set up a website, print material, and do this as a business, it likely would.
I cannot think of a more clear cut case of abusing elite benefits than selling them to strangers (whether bundled with the privilege of flying with such a well-informed traveler as you or not).
It is refreshing to have the opinion of someone as rabidly against this as you, however alone you may be. Thank you.
As far as as the customer care email, I apologized early on for paraphrasing and admitted that the word "blessings" was not used. However, what was stated was even stronger than "blessings", so I cannot fathom why you are so delirious about it. You have left unanswered why a customer care email is worthless. It is not so obvious to someone who has "already made up his mind" as you put it, perhaps ironically.
I do indeed share your suspicions of existing services, but not as vehemently. That is why I have repeatedly asked if anyone has experiences with them. Unlike you, I would like to know for sure.
There are several accompaniment services who have been around a long time who have set up websites, printed material, and are doing business. I listed them in previous posts. To my knowledge, they are not under suspicion by the airline(s) they use. Once again you are wrong. And if they are legitimate, you have left unanswered why you are so dead set against my being their competition.
You are clearly exaggerating when you state that you can not think of a clearer case of abusing elite benefits. You can't be that narrow-minded. Perhaps this thread (or me) touches a nerve in you. Please accept my apologies if this is the case. If there is anything I can do or say to ease your angst, please let me know.
Thank you for your input. It is appreciated. I look forward to your advice.
Oct 1, 2014, 2:10 pm
#64
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
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Posts: 7,318
Marketing your status
ive actually responded to many of these points before. I look forward to Chris Elliott's article discussing how unfair it was for you to get kicked out of MileagePlus for using the program's benefits for a commercial nonintended use.
If everyone did what you're suggesting, United would simply stop allowing the sharing of benefits. Because individual greed and abuse of programs is what leads to programs being devalued for all of us.
If everyone did what you're suggesting, United would simply stop allowing the sharing of benefits. Because individual greed and abuse of programs is what leads to programs being devalued for all of us.
Oct 1, 2014, 6:51 pm
#65
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tampa/Orlando
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 109
You are right, although I was hoping that I might find a super capable FT user who is working for or running one of these services.
Oct 3, 2014, 3:40 am
#66
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tampa/Orlando
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 109
In my previous fun response to your query, I thought you were offering a possible name for the accompaniment service I am contemplating. Sometimes I can be so dense - you were referring to my background. Other than ensuing flights after being drafted, I have never been on a business flight. Although I do have a drawl and drive a pick-up, the following is closer to the truth and it too was fun to write:
I fly over 100,000 miles alone each year disguised as a poet-adventurer. I have touched the Great Barrier Reef, ascended Adams Peak, cantered through Tasmania and the Red Rock Canyon cliffs, lived with a Karen Hill Tribe family, snorkeled Mexico's underground rivers, kayaked Pai River jungle rapids, explored lagoons in the Gulf of Siam, island hopped Ha Long Bay, plied the Melong, rappelled ravines in Costa Rica, heard the Song of the Sirens of the Bone Tree at BurningMan, breathed the backstreets of Paris, Bangkok, Sydney, Hanoi, Phnom Penh, and Amsterdam, climbed the steep worn steps of Angklor Wat, forced marched through Korea's DMZ, belly danced with the Big Sur Natives, was befriended by a revered monk through serendipity, trekked through landmines, Tamil Tiger road blocks and washed out bridges bearing gifts for Sri Lankan tsunami refugee children, and much more from desert to rainforest, performing poetry at venues along the way. My passport ran out of pages. Next I ascend Mount Kilamenjaro.
A promise from a dream and a torn and faded map bequeathed from a forgotten ancestor and scribbled in a tongue no longer spoken, guides me. I am here to break the rusted lock from the chest.
Fly with me.
I fly over 100,000 miles alone each year disguised as a poet-adventurer. I have touched the Great Barrier Reef, ascended Adams Peak, cantered through Tasmania and the Red Rock Canyon cliffs, lived with a Karen Hill Tribe family, snorkeled Mexico's underground rivers, kayaked Pai River jungle rapids, explored lagoons in the Gulf of Siam, island hopped Ha Long Bay, plied the Melong, rappelled ravines in Costa Rica, heard the Song of the Sirens of the Bone Tree at BurningMan, breathed the backstreets of Paris, Bangkok, Sydney, Hanoi, Phnom Penh, and Amsterdam, climbed the steep worn steps of Angklor Wat, forced marched through Korea's DMZ, belly danced with the Big Sur Natives, was befriended by a revered monk through serendipity, trekked through landmines, Tamil Tiger road blocks and washed out bridges bearing gifts for Sri Lankan tsunami refugee children, and much more from desert to rainforest, performing poetry at venues along the way. My passport ran out of pages. Next I ascend Mount Kilamenjaro.
A promise from a dream and a torn and faded map bequeathed from a forgotten ancestor and scribbled in a tongue no longer spoken, guides me. I am here to break the rusted lock from the chest.
Fly with me.
Oct 3, 2014, 5:01 am
#67
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Oct 3, 2014, 5:12 am
#68
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If someone is willing to pay for your service partly for the perks, having never flown business class yourself is a definite DISqualification.
Maybe you can convince helicopter parents that their college age kids can't figure how to deal with airports by themselves.
Maybe you can convince helicopter parents that their college age kids can't figure how to deal with airports by themselves.
Oct 3, 2014, 8:12 am
#69
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tampa/Orlando
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 109
I think many may have lost track of why I posted. I never said that I was going to start an accompaniment service to compete with existing ones - I said that I may contemplate it. I keep asking in vain if anyone has EXPERIENCE with theses services. So far I have gotten zilch. I keep stating that I will not enter a business blindly. Anyone out there have EXPERIENCE with accompaniment services? I doubt it. I cannot find customer reviews which makes me suspicious about the industry. So far I remain a solid no go.
I do appreciate the the often humorous asides from everyone who does not have the particular experience I seek.
I do appreciate the the often humorous asides from everyone who does not have the particular experience I seek.
Oct 3, 2014, 8:34 am
#70
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tampa/Orlando
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 109
If someone is willing to pay for your service partly for the perks, having never flown business class yourself is a definite DISqualification.
Maybe you can convince helicopter parents that their college age kids can't figure how to deal with airports by themselves.
Maybe you can convince helicopter parents that their college age kids can't figure how to deal with airports by themselves.
Oh.. I know - in a previous post I stated that I have never flown for business other than ensuing flights after being drafted. Of course you already know that people who do not fly for business do fly fly business class and first, especially if they have been 1K for several years.
As for your helicopter parents - accompaniment services have been around for a while and I daresay have clientele which includes more than clueless college kids. I can keep requesting for EXPERIENCE with accompaniment services until I am blue in the face. It appears that there is none at FT.
Oct 3, 2014, 8:51 am
#71
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tampa/Orlando
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 109
RED NECK FLY GUY
Dang! I'll fly anywheres with ya'll if ya'll buys me a ticket.
I'll even carry ya'll over to the airport in my pick-up truck.
I brings newspaper fer the seats so ya'll and yer luggage don't git smelly.
Over at the airport they's real darlins to me
and they be sweet to you too!
I guarantease it - so give a holler!
(At FT is it OK to use the other "Dang" word?) I do have a drawl and drive a pick-up
Oct 3, 2014, 8:53 am
#72
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I have read the thread extremely carefully:
"Is there a market for this? Would I be violating United policy by letting strangers share my perks by paying to fly with me?"
Selling "flying with you" by saying PS you will also get my status perks, wink wink nudge nudge, is the same as selling your perks.
More recently, the OP has stated "I would promote a service with perks without any mention of a specific airline." Except when a customer called to ask "can I get those perks on any flight you book for me?," the answer would have to be "No, I only have United Mileage Plus 1K (TM) status." I am offering to provide you with United Club (TM) access, Economy Plus (TM) seating, etc.
The true intent of the OP is reflected by the title of this thread. The OP is seeking to make a business by offering to fly with people so they can use his United Mileage Plus perks.
The "guidance" received in a response was from Customer Care.
The question that led to the "guidance" has been described different ways:
"United got back to me stating that they have no policies prohibiting my plans. They wished me every success and thanked me for being 1K."
Then it was described as "The first question in my OP, "marketing your status" was answered by UA -they do not prohibit such an undertaking by their elite fliers." Then the question was described as "using my perks in an independent business venture."
The OP stated they contacted Customer Care. We do not know exactly what was said to Customer Care. Was it "can I share my perks with strangers I book tickets for"? Was it "Can i market my Mileage Plus 1K (TM) status as a reason why people should pay me to fly with them?"
Unless the OP submitted a full business plan, which was run by legal, the "wishing every success" by Customer Care is worth nothing. It was likely someone at a desk in India responding to a confusing question. That is not "guidance."
As to the OP's question "Who would you have me contact to further confirm that this is OK? Why do you think I even need to confirm this?"
This is obvious, you are not acting as a "customer". You are acting as a third party travel seller. Customer Care has nothing to do with approving the use or sale of United's marks or products. They barely have the power to give you compensation for a service malfunction.
If you want to take the risk of having your 1K status revoked, go ahead, rely on a "wishing every success" from Customer Care.
My recommendation:
(1) Develop language that you actually plan to use in marketing materials
(2) Explain that you will charge strangers XX for the privilege of flying with you on United Airlines.
Contact legal: contact information is available here: http://www.untied.com/ual/contact.shtml#
So yes, London Elite, I have read the thread quite thoroughly. I just have reached a far different conclusion based on what has been said. Unless you have read the business plan and have more detailed information as to the "guidance" that Customer Care gave, I don't think your views are any more valid than mine.
"Is there a market for this? Would I be violating United policy by letting strangers share my perks by paying to fly with me?"
Selling "flying with you" by saying PS you will also get my status perks, wink wink nudge nudge, is the same as selling your perks.
More recently, the OP has stated "I would promote a service with perks without any mention of a specific airline." Except when a customer called to ask "can I get those perks on any flight you book for me?," the answer would have to be "No, I only have United Mileage Plus 1K (TM) status." I am offering to provide you with United Club (TM) access, Economy Plus (TM) seating, etc.
The true intent of the OP is reflected by the title of this thread. The OP is seeking to make a business by offering to fly with people so they can use his United Mileage Plus perks.
The "guidance" received in a response was from Customer Care.
The question that led to the "guidance" has been described different ways:
"United got back to me stating that they have no policies prohibiting my plans. They wished me every success and thanked me for being 1K."
Then it was described as "The first question in my OP, "marketing your status" was answered by UA -they do not prohibit such an undertaking by their elite fliers." Then the question was described as "using my perks in an independent business venture."
The OP stated they contacted Customer Care. We do not know exactly what was said to Customer Care. Was it "can I share my perks with strangers I book tickets for"? Was it "Can i market my Mileage Plus 1K (TM) status as a reason why people should pay me to fly with them?"
Unless the OP submitted a full business plan, which was run by legal, the "wishing every success" by Customer Care is worth nothing. It was likely someone at a desk in India responding to a confusing question. That is not "guidance."
As to the OP's question "Who would you have me contact to further confirm that this is OK? Why do you think I even need to confirm this?"
This is obvious, you are not acting as a "customer". You are acting as a third party travel seller. Customer Care has nothing to do with approving the use or sale of United's marks or products. They barely have the power to give you compensation for a service malfunction.
If you want to take the risk of having your 1K status revoked, go ahead, rely on a "wishing every success" from Customer Care.
My recommendation:
(1) Develop language that you actually plan to use in marketing materials
(2) Explain that you will charge strangers XX for the privilege of flying with you on United Airlines.
Contact legal: contact information is available here: http://www.untied.com/ual/contact.shtml#
So yes, London Elite, I have read the thread quite thoroughly. I just have reached a far different conclusion based on what has been said. Unless you have read the business plan and have more detailed information as to the "guidance" that Customer Care gave, I don't think your views are any more valid than mine.
Last edited by LondonElite; Oct 3, 2014 at 9:01 am
Oct 3, 2014, 2:55 pm
#73
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,318
The flight of fancy you are referencing was a fun response to someone inquiring about what I called "a fascinatingly adventurous background", not really meant for advertising. How did you like the first fun one?
RED NECK FLY GUY
Dang! I'll fly anywheres with ya'll if ya'll buys me a ticket.
I'll even carry ya'll over to the airport in my pick-up truck.
I brings newspaper fer the seats so ya'll and yer luggage don't git smelly.
Over at the airport they's real darlins to me
and they be sweet to you too!
I guarantease it - so give a holler!
(At FT is it OK to use the other "Dang" word?) I do have a drawl and drive a pick-up
RED NECK FLY GUY
Dang! I'll fly anywheres with ya'll if ya'll buys me a ticket.
I'll even carry ya'll over to the airport in my pick-up truck.
I brings newspaper fer the seats so ya'll and yer luggage don't git smelly.
Over at the airport they's real darlins to me
and they be sweet to you too!
I guarantease it - so give a holler!
(At FT is it OK to use the other "Dang" word?) I do have a drawl and drive a pick-up
You're awesome, a pro at travel, and everyone who dares find flaw in your amazing plan is a terrible person. Good luck and godspeed.
Oct 3, 2014, 5:55 pm
#74
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Oct 4, 2014, 2:09 am
#75
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