Mar 4, 2015, 11:15 am
Last edit by: aBroadAbroad
Please read this wiki before posting questions or comments.
Overview
Virtually all award programs expressly prohibit the buying, selling and bartering of awards and other instruments through any means other than those they specifically endorse. Members should be aware of the risks involved. For example, American Airlines, has actively pursued violators, closing members' accounts, rescinding their miles and banning them from program participation.
There are a few program-approved ways of transferring or converting miles/points between programs, or even a possibility of offering or requesting lodging or transportation awards. Note that most of the approved methods incur an "exchange cost" that significantly reduces the net miles/points.
The Coupon Connection
FT hosts a limited-access forum where established, active members may exchange and/or offer limited unneeded travel-related items. Coupon Connection (CC) is NOT a marketplace, and the buying and selling of any items is strictly prohibited. This includes any transactions that attempt to circumvent the no-cash provision. Eligible members are able to see The Coupon Connection in the FlyerTalk Forums Index, listed in the "Community" category, when logged onto the site. Those who cannot see the CC forum are ineligible to participate. Minimum eligibility criteria include 180 days of FT membership and 180 contributive posts (non-substantive count-padding types of posts will be deleted at moderators' discretion; those who embark on "posting runs" for the purpose of increasing their post-counts will be barred from participation). Access to CC is a privilege, is not guaranteed, and is subject to revocation.
Overview
Virtually all award programs expressly prohibit the buying, selling and bartering of awards and other instruments through any means other than those they specifically endorse. Members should be aware of the risks involved. For example, American Airlines, has actively pursued violators, closing members' accounts, rescinding their miles and banning them from program participation.
See also: Account Audit/Fraud Issues - Busted Selling Miles in the AA forum.
Legitimate Transfer Resources There are a few program-approved ways of transferring or converting miles/points between programs, or even a possibility of offering or requesting lodging or transportation awards. Note that most of the approved methods incur an "exchange cost" that significantly reduces the net miles/points.
Examples
Most award programs permit members to redeem awards, upgrade certificates, etc., as gifts to family and friends, as long as such gifts are not conditioned on any kind of barter, payment or reciprocity. The airlines are known to sometimes question the account holder and/or award recipient to ensure proper compliance with the program's terms and conditions.- Webflyer Mileage Converter is a tool for finding possible points/miles conversions
- Credit card points may be transferable to various hotel and airline programs, e.g. American Express Membersip Rewards, Chase Ultimate Rewards
- Some hotel program points can be transferred to various airlines, often at no cost and with a net gain in miles, e.g., Starwood Preferred Guest
- Points.com is a miles/points conversion service
The Coupon Connection
FT hosts a limited-access forum where established, active members may exchange and/or offer limited unneeded travel-related items. Coupon Connection (CC) is NOT a marketplace, and the buying and selling of any items is strictly prohibited. This includes any transactions that attempt to circumvent the no-cash provision. Eligible members are able to see The Coupon Connection in the FlyerTalk Forums Index, listed in the "Community" category, when logged onto the site. Those who cannot see the CC forum are ineligible to participate. Minimum eligibility criteria include 180 days of FT membership and 180 contributive posts (non-substantive count-padding types of posts will be deleted at moderators' discretion; those who embark on "posting runs" for the purpose of increasing their post-counts will be barred from participation). Access to CC is a privilege, is not guaranteed, and is subject to revocation.
This is a member-maintained Wikipost.
Any FlyerTalker with at least 90 days of membership and 90 contributive posts may edit this wiki.
Any FlyerTalker with at least 90 days of membership and 90 contributive posts may edit this wiki.
Is there a way to trade miles or points? [Consolidated]
Jul 9, 2012, 10:50 pm
#32
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 749
I personally don't think 100k to 18k airline miles is all that bad, considering how little those 100k CC points cost. If anything it illustrates that a point/mile is not created equally. Almost like Dollars vs Pesos. Don't get so caught up on the actual number of either, instead make sure you get the most $$ value out of those points.
Jul 13, 2012, 8:06 pm
#33
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CHA
Posts: 151
A few comments about Points.com.
A lot of people don't understand, at first, that Points.com is the middleman. The trade opportunities are posted by other members. And, yes, a lot of them are horrid values, people hoping someone clueless will give up 10k of this for 1k or 2k that. But you do find good values from time to time. It's a waiting game.
The loyalty programs set the fees for trades and Points.com gets a cut [they *are* a business]. The typical trade fee to you is $10USD per 1k you give up. Some programs have other fee structures (DL trades cost $10/1k PLUS $30; Jetblue is $12.50 per 1k; etc.).
They also have exchanges where you move points/miles directly from one of your programs to another one. There's no fees, but the exchange rates are generally poor. Even so, sometimes the value proposition is worthwhile. I've exchanged Frontier for UA because I had no prospect of getting enough Frontier to redeem any time soon and needed the UA.
Not all programs will let you trade or exchange; some will only let you trade or exchange, but not both. And some, quite a few actually, don't allow either; for those programs Points.com is little more than a tracking site.
It's up to each person to decide if the value of using PoInts.com is worth it. Your personal valuation will be different from mine; some people will gladly pay a fee to consolidate their miles/points, others think it would be foolish. I won't pay $60 to, effectively, convert 6k Frontier to 2k DL; but I did pay $60 to convert 6k Aeroplan to 20k Alfursan because someone offered that trade.
As with all things subjective, YMMV.
The loyalty programs set the fees for trades and Points.com gets a cut [they *are* a business]. The typical trade fee to you is $10USD per 1k you give up. Some programs have other fee structures (DL trades cost $10/1k PLUS $30; Jetblue is $12.50 per 1k; etc.).
They also have exchanges where you move points/miles directly from one of your programs to another one. There's no fees, but the exchange rates are generally poor. Even so, sometimes the value proposition is worthwhile. I've exchanged Frontier for UA because I had no prospect of getting enough Frontier to redeem any time soon and needed the UA.
Not all programs will let you trade or exchange; some will only let you trade or exchange, but not both. And some, quite a few actually, don't allow either; for those programs Points.com is little more than a tracking site.
It's up to each person to decide if the value of using PoInts.com is worth it. Your personal valuation will be different from mine; some people will gladly pay a fee to consolidate their miles/points, others think it would be foolish. I won't pay $60 to, effectively, convert 6k Frontier to 2k DL; but I did pay $60 to convert 6k Aeroplan to 20k Alfursan because someone offered that trade.
As with all things subjective, YMMV.
Jul 13, 2012, 9:16 pm
#34
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,677
For all the thought you put into that post, it almost makes me wonder if you are affiliated with the website. 
I have to disagree with you on most of what you say, however.
There have been more than several times where I have found a decent play on points dot com only to have points dot com say that, "credit card has been declined..." This happened to me at least 5 to 10 times and there was never, ever, EVER anything wrong with my credit cards.
What was happening (the best hypothesis that I can come up with) is that someone was deciding whether or not the trade should be put through AFTER it was advertised and out there on the website for many a day, and then PAID FOR. I'm not sure how it all works, but I don't like it. It just smells bad, and in my opinion it is not worth attempting to trade on that website.
I'm not sure if there is a class-action law suit in there anywhere (declining credit cards selectively, and at will) but if there is - you will find me in line. And in my opinion it would have to be against points dot com because that is the merchant that gets paid.
Trust me, I've played the waiting game. And it stinks.
I have to disagree with you on most of what you say, however.There have been more than several times where I have found a decent play on points dot com only to have points dot com say that, "credit card has been declined..." This happened to me at least 5 to 10 times and there was never, ever, EVER anything wrong with my credit cards.
What was happening (the best hypothesis that I can come up with) is that someone was deciding whether or not the trade should be put through AFTER it was advertised and out there on the website for many a day, and then PAID FOR. I'm not sure how it all works, but I don't like it. It just smells bad, and in my opinion it is not worth attempting to trade on that website.
I'm not sure if there is a class-action law suit in there anywhere (declining credit cards selectively, and at will) but if there is - you will find me in line. And in my opinion it would have to be against points dot com because that is the merchant that gets paid.
Trust me, I've played the waiting game. And it stinks.
Jul 13, 2012, 10:02 pm
#35
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CHA
Posts: 151
Also, it took me all of about three minutes to type it up. Not a lot of thought going into it, just my experience with them and perhaps a knack for writing clearly on the fly.
I have to disagree with you on most of what you say, however.
There have been more than several times where I have found a decent play on points dot com only to have points dot com say that, "credit card has been declined..." This happened to me at least 5 to 10 times and there was never, ever, EVER anything wrong with my credit cards.
What was happening (the best hypothesis that I can come up with) is that someone was deciding whether or not the trade should be put through AFTER it was advertised and out there on the website for many a day, and then PAID FOR. I'm not sure how it all works, but I don't like it. It just smells bad, and in my opinion it is not worth attempting to trade on that website.
What was happening (the best hypothesis that I can come up with) is that someone was deciding whether or not the trade should be put through AFTER it was advertised and out there on the website for many a day, and then PAID FOR. I'm not sure how it all works, but I don't like it. It just smells bad, and in my opinion it is not worth attempting to trade on that website.
The first time it happened to me I called my card CS line and had them watch in real time while I tried again. The authorization request never came through even though it showed as declined. I then tried it with the spaces, and it went through through in matter of seconds. Again, this was in real time.
You do not get charged for a trade offer you post until someone accepts it. They do not check with you before finalizing a trade you offered and someone accepts, this is why you give your card number when you first post your offer. If someone accepts it and your card doesn't have enough remaining on it for your share of the transaction fees, however, your bank might decline it, but then that's outside Points.com's scope...
You can, however, delete your trade offer if you so choose, as long as no one has accepted it yet. If you delete your offer it disappears immediately. There also appears to be a 3-month maximum time limit for a trade offer to be live before they pull it, I don't see anything older than about 3 months...
Jul 13, 2012, 10:08 pm
#36
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,677
Uh....no...it's not "the bank declining my card for whatever reason..."
as you imply. In fact I even stated that in my previous response - that there was no problem with the cards, ever. Nice try.
I pay my bills ahead of time, and always pay far more than the minimum amount. My credit scores are in the upper 700's and low 800's. My cards are never declined, ever (until points dot com). I used them the next day without any problems. It is that website. And I'm sure it happens to more people than just 'lil old me.
as you imply. In fact I even stated that in my previous response - that there was no problem with the cards, ever. Nice try.
I pay my bills ahead of time, and always pay far more than the minimum amount. My credit scores are in the upper 700's and low 800's. My cards are never declined, ever (until points dot com). I used them the next day without any problems. It is that website. And I'm sure it happens to more people than just 'lil old me.
Jul 14, 2012, 2:33 am
#37
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CHA
Posts: 151
Uh....no...it's not "the bank declining my card for whatever reason..."
as you imply. In fact I even stated that in my previous response - that there was no problem with the cards, ever. Nice try.
I pay my bills ahead of time, and always pay far more than the minimum amount. My credit scores are in the upper 700's and low 800's. My cards are never declined, ever (until points dot com). I used them the next day without any problems. It is that website. And I'm sure it happens to more people than just 'lil old me.
as you imply. In fact I even stated that in my previous response - that there was no problem with the cards, ever. Nice try.
I pay my bills ahead of time, and always pay far more than the minimum amount. My credit scores are in the upper 700's and low 800's. My cards are never declined, ever (until points dot com). I used them the next day without any problems. It is that website. And I'm sure it happens to more people than just 'lil old me.
I also stated that when it does happen to me, I re-enter my card number with the spaces. Works every time.
Jul 14, 2012, 6:31 am
#38
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,677
Whoever heard of having to enter "spaces" in order to make an online purchase? Ridiculous. Sorry but I can't buy into that even if you are only trying to help. It would not say too much about the website, at any rate.
I am not familiar with the fact that "a bank can decline a transaction for whatever reason" since it never happens to me. It only happens to me on the p dot com website. And anyway it wasn't the bank, it was the points dot com website that was declining my transaction.
Immediately after p dot come declined the sale, stating "your card has been declined," I was able to buy online anywhere else with that same card.
I am not familiar with the fact that "a bank can decline a transaction for whatever reason" since it never happens to me. It only happens to me on the p dot com website. And anyway it wasn't the bank, it was the points dot com website that was declining my transaction.
Immediately after p dot come declined the sale, stating "your card has been declined," I was able to buy online anywhere else with that same card.
Jul 14, 2012, 8:08 am
#39
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Home
Programs: AA, Delta, UA & thanks to FTers for my PC Gold!
Posts: 7,676
This is NOT a Points.com thread...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...ed-thread.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...-exchange.html
FWIW, OP is asking about options to consolidate and/or trade miles, which includes but is not limited to Points.com. For the life of me, I will NEVER consider Points.com "best way to trade points", as how OP had raised his original questions:
Jul 14, 2012, 11:08 am
#40
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
Credit card transactions are authorized in real time by a fully automated system. If the merchant (points.com) is unable to establish a data link to the authorization network the merchant's system may report that the card was "declined" but it would be more accurate to say "not authorized". Such failures are not unique to points.com, nor even to internet transactions. These are network problems, completely unrelated to the specifics of the transaction.
Points.com operates the infrastructure for many airline and hotel loyalty programs. The retail website is a tiny portion of their business. The ability to "trade" points with a stranger is merely an extension of the transfer feature built into many programs which allows you to transfer miles or points to a friend for a fee. There is a maximum amount you can transfer or receive. Unless one party has exceeded this maximum there is no reason points.com would cancel a transaction.
Points.com operates the infrastructure for many airline and hotel loyalty programs. The retail website is a tiny portion of their business. The ability to "trade" points with a stranger is merely an extension of the transfer feature built into many programs which allows you to transfer miles or points to a friend for a fee. There is a maximum amount you can transfer or receive. Unless one party has exceeded this maximum there is no reason points.com would cancel a transaction.
Jul 14, 2012, 6:24 pm
#41
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AA EXP2M, DL 1MM DM ext, UA PP <=> HH G/Marr PE/Hyatt G/IHG P FT RA ( Recovering Addict)
Posts: 4,596
There have been more than several times where I have found a decent play on points dot com only to have points dot com say that, "credit card has been declined..." This happened to me at least 5 to 10 times and there was never, ever, EVER anything wrong with my credit cards.
Trust me, I've played the waiting game. And it stinks.
Trust me, I've played the waiting game. And it stinks.
Once you use a card frequently on points.com, it freezes the card.
In 2009, we did a diasy chain of points transfers on US Dividend miles.
I am proud that I broke the story here on FT.
Since then my cards used in 2009 have never worked, but other cards with different numbers, which were sub accounts have been fine
I think it is a IT bug.
Calling points.com makes no difference
1
Nope. ........
2
When that happens to me, I enter the card number *with the spaces*: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx. That has worked for me, every time. The key is how quickly the declined notice comes back. If it's instantly, try using spaces in the card number. If it takes several seconds or more, it's probably the bank declining the transaction for whatever reason.
The first time it happened to me I called my card CS line and had them watch in real time while I tried again. The authorization request never came through even though it showed as declined. I then tried it with the spaces, and it went through through in matter of seconds. Again, this was in real time.
Nope. ........
2
When that happens to me, I enter the card number *with the spaces*: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx. That has worked for me, every time. The key is how quickly the declined notice comes back. If it's instantly, try using spaces in the card number. If it takes several seconds or more, it's probably the bank declining the transaction for whatever reason.
The first time it happened to me I called my card CS line and had them watch in real time while I tried again. The authorization request never came through even though it showed as declined. I then tried it with the spaces, and it went through through in matter of seconds. Again, this was in real time.
Even if you are working for them this is the first report of a fix for the bug. Thanks
2
I have confirmed the problem several times with the CC issuer on the phone at the same time, no request was received.
So here is to hoping the bug is fixed and many more share mile promos.
Last edited by ffI; Jul 14, 2012 at 6:31 pm
Jul 15, 2012, 7:27 pm
#42
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CHA
Posts: 151
FWIW, OP is asking about options to consolidate and/or trade miles, which includes but is not limited to Points.com. For the life of me, I will NEVER consider Points.com "best way to trade points", as how OP had raised his original questions:
Jul 15, 2012, 7:29 pm
#43
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CHA
Posts: 151
1
Even if you are working for them this is the first report of a fix for the bug. Thanks
2
I have confirmed the problem several times with the CC issuer on the phone at the same time, no request was received.
So here is to hoping the bug is fixed and many more share mile promos.
Even if you are working for them this is the first report of a fix for the bug. Thanks
2
I have confirmed the problem several times with the CC issuer on the phone at the same time, no request was received.
So here is to hoping the bug is fixed and many more share mile promos.
Jul 16, 2012, 4:44 pm
#45
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Land of the parrots and parrotheads
Programs: Several dozen
Posts: 4,820
You take your chances with Craigslist - Cardinal Fang may be patrolling Craigslist for heretics just as he patrolled eBay. Do believe ol' Fang was effective in destroying the eBay ticket mart.