No, a copy is OK. My husband scanned mine and then lightened it up in Photoshop before converting it to a pdf- it was apparently generated from a microfilm. I sent the pdf to the visa service (CIBT).

Timing was pretty fast after that; they brought it to the Consulate in Houston Friday and yesterday (Tuesday) I got the note it was completed and was on its way back to me.

How ever would the average Indian consulate/embassy worker have a clue about which submitted birth certificate copy is legitimate or not, even if only dealing with a limited subset of the states (as is their normal desire)?

I doubt they are calling up the state vital records offices about each and every birth certificate issued and getting a timely response so as to turn over visas as quickly as they do currently.

These latest requirements smack of political-bureaucratic stupidity laced with CYA thinking of the worst sort.

This looks like a purely tit-for-tat retaliation against the US requirement for Indians to provide their own AND their parent's birth certficates.

My aunt (65 year old retired teacher) was applying for a US transit visa at the consulate in Mumbai en route to visit my cousin who lives in Canada. She was asked to produce originals of her parents' birth certificates as part of the application process. Her mother was born in Burma in the 1920s and her father in Goa sometime during World War I. These records are simply not available anymore, especially since both parties in question are long deceased.

In the end, she decided to fly via the UK instead since they are not making her jump through these ridiculous hoops simply to change planes in New York.

The Indian government will be relaxing a bit with the business visas. The government:

has sent the message it wanted to send to China and Chinese companies;

has realized it is annoying the political party's major fund donors tied to the IT industry and causing hardship to an important sector of the economy that fills the tax collectors' coffers; and

can still talk about having a "tough" response against foreign terrorists coming into India with visas even as most of the cross-border terrorists don't care to or even need to get visas to do their nasty deeds in India.

Requests for birth certificates have sky-rocketed because of the accusation of David Headley in connection with what happened in the terrorist attacks on Bombay in November 2008.

Yeah, that occurred to me, too. A colleague is getting her 5-year Indian visa transferred because it was in a now-expired US passport. (After researching on FT we decided that hoping she could get by with the old passport containing the valid visa plus the new passport was too chancy.) She still needs an invitation from our office in India. She still needs a letter from one of our officers saying that she won't become dependent on the government of India. And yes, after I suggested she look into it, she needs a birth certificate. The only difference is that it's cheaper to transfer the old one than to buy a new one.

Gotta love government bureaucracies. But then I hear what my colleagues in India endure to visit the UK, Switzerland and the US and I don't feel as bad.

Just got my visa after being snagged by the birth certifcate requirement.

The most interesting question was something along the lines of:

"Were you, your parents, OR grandparents born in Pakistan?"

WOW. :eek:

that's just the way it is....they are very careful about giving a visa to anyone with pakistani ties....

Interesting that they're becoming just as stupidly bureaucratic as the USA. I'm dealing with that now since my mother-in-law has no birth certificate, but has had US visas in the past and has had a passport for almost 50 years. No dice, they want the birth certificate. She'll not be going to the USA any more.

When was Pakistan created? 1947? My dad was born in 1948, so it's very feasible that my dad might be considered "Pakistani". (He was indeed born in modern day India) Asking about my grandparents? Now you're really digging ...

people born before 1947 are not considered pakistani if they moved to india immediately after independence....

This is because David Headley who was behind the 26/11 attackes hid his .... ancestry as he used his step fathers christian name and avoided the extra scrutiny he would have normally required. Like FRO reporting etc.

Hence they're making sure that all who apply are not hiding their pakistani origin to avoid extra visa scrutiny.

http://tinyurl.com/ydv78js

this CYA measure has been implemented in the wake of David Coleman Headley fiasco. This too causes inconvenience to normal people, as almost all bureaucratic measures do.
U.S. passport has place of birth on it. Even if the Indian Embassy had asked David Coleman for a birth certificate, his birth certificate would have merely confirmed the U.S. as his place of birth.

I have always been able to get through immigration with my 10 yr Indian visa in an expired U.S. passport. Are they now refusing to allow entry on a visa in an expired passport?

India and the USA have (assuming it hasn't recently been abrogated) a bilateral treaty on this issue that specifically permits each other's nationals to have full validity of visas regardless of passport expiry, as well as to enter each other's countries up to the last date of passport validity.

My daughter has her "Lifetime" visa, that she received with her OCI card, stamped on a passport that has since expired. She was allowed entry last week with the expired passport with the visa in it along with a valid US passport.

Now with this OCI thing, turns out she will be traveling to India for the rest of her life (she is 5 now) with her infant passport, as well as an unexpired one, and the little OCI booklet. Probably not a question for this thread, but seems pointless to have the OCI booklet as well as a stamped "visa".

Many people my age have parents/ grandparents who were born in what is now Pakistan. They moved to India during the partition. What would, for instance, pre-independence Lahore be considered if you wanted to answer whether your grandparents were born in Pakistan? It was all India back then.

I've wondered about the booklet, too. The immigration agents ask for it, but is it required if you have the visa in your passport? It doesn't really have any vital information in it that isn't in your passport and visa.

I asked the last time I was leaving DEL. The immigration officer said that I HAD to carry the booklet as well as the passport that contains the visa. Then he looked at my ten year valid visa and decided that if I didnt want to, then I didnt need to carry the booklet.

I'm not sure but I dont remember there being a separate visa stamped on the passport with a PIO card. Is there?

:confused: We are not talking about OCI.
Sorry. OCI is an entirely different scenario. OCI would be meaningless if it expired with the passport.

Thank you B747-437B. Your responses are always very informative and relevant to the query.

Right, just like other visas most often dont expire with the expiration of the passport. With the OCI, however, since the status never expires, having a booklet as well as a stamped visa on the passport means that one has to carry that particular passport with the stamped visa, for their entire lifetime, since the validity of the OCI status is a lifetime.

I'm confused about your "ten year valid visa" - is it an OCI visa?

And I believe you're right, the PIO card allows for visa-free travel (no visa in passport).

Sorry for the confusion. The ten-year visa is the visa that I had before I became an OCI.

I do question the logic of the "Lifetime" visa that comes with the OCI booklet. Its pretty pointless. One additional travel document to carry in case when the passport with the (forever) valid OCI visa is expired. Just the OCI booklet should be enough, in my opinion. I wonder why both are necessary.

read my post # 12....

I did, thank you.
My question is, and it is purely in the interest of discussion, where would you say a particular person was born if they were born in pre-partition "Pakistan". Now I dont know the exact language of the question on the visa application is, but if they ask "were they born in Pakistan" as against "were they Pakistani", what's the right answer? Also, what if one's grandparents never moved to India in '47, possibly because they died before the partition?

before 1947, anyone who was born in now what is called pakistan but moved after independence, will not be considered a pakistani....

my grandmother was born in lahore in the 1920s but has always had indian citizenship....i even remember her filling up a form many years ago when we were going to pakistan for a relative's wedding....at place of birth she wrote lahore (pre-partition)....

India has been very strict in considering visa applications by anyone with a Muslim name for about ten years now. In my case, both my parents were born in British India. I am British by birth and I have had trouble whenever I have applied for a tourist visa to visit India. My wife, also being the offspring of Indian born parents but being born in North America has had an Indian business visa refused in the last year. In both cases, we understand the reason is due to heavy travel to Pakistan. As I say, this is long before the Headley days discussed above.

wow, that's a shame, IMHO. Your wife would qualify for OCI (multi-purpose visa) and maybe you as well, but they ask the same questions re Pakistan. Not sure if the approval criteria are any different, however.

I would say India, now in Pakistan.

Yes, we had been advised about OCI, but I was told recently, any applications flagged as suspect (by individuals suspected of ties to Pakistan) would require both passport and application be forwarded to New Delhi for consideration and approval. If that is indeed the case, I can well do without the humiliation and profiling (not like I don't get enough of that as it is :D).

I believe the visas are all sent out from Delhi and that the application (or part of it) it forwarded to them for final decision on whether to grant or not. This is true for all applicants. I do not know if they will forward your passport due to Pakistani ties. Generally, you mail in your passport once the visa has been approved and arrived at your local consulate (or perhaps, go in person if that's convenient for you).

EDIT to add: Actually, I think the visas are issued "locally", but instead the OCI booklets are sent from Delhi. In any case, all applications are forwarded to India and the decisions are made by MHA in India.

If your parents have Pakistani citizenship at any point? If they did, you will not be eligible for OCI (possibly PIO also). The same applies to your wife's situation also. If you are eligible, apply and fight for it. You have to establish your Indian heritage. Since you were born in the U.K. the only way you can establish your Indianity (:D) through your parents. If they went to U.K. before the partition, you are eligible for OCI. However, if your parents held Pakistani citizenship before going to U.K., you are not eligible.

There are Indians with ties to Pakistan through marriage in extended families. It is true that Pakistani ties will generate extra scrutiny. But once you get the OCI, no one will know in India about your Pakistani ties, except the guy who stamps you in at the immigration. Not sure what they will do if you presented yourself with OCI and a passport full of entry stamps to Pakistan.

As far as humiliation and profiling is concerned, why is humiliation or profiling from Indian bureaucrats less welcome than those the U.S. ;)

I think you are missing the point. The thread was started to discuss requirement of a birth certificate for applying for visa to India. My question was a bit OT but it wa in response to Athena53 sayi8ng something about transfering a 5 year visa from an expired passport to the current passport.

But to answer my question by citing OCI and comparing the situation with OCI to that with a muti-year visa is strays further from the topic, does not answer my question and causes unnecessary confusion.. There are many things that OCI are allowed but people with a multi-year visa are denied.

OCI is meant for a select group of people. It's a lifetime visa. A multi-year visa is available to anyone, even those not of Indian origin. Rules that govern entry of those with OCI have absolutely nothing to do with rules of entry for other visas.

It would be silly to call it a lifetime visa, if you had to apply for it every time your passport expired. Ability to use your visa in an expired passport was not always there. One cannot take it for granted that something that's allowed to an OCI is allowed to a person holding a multi-year visa

Mixing up OCI with ten-year visa is causing confusion among more than a poster or two.

Are you questioning the logic of the life time visa or the logic of requiring a booklet?

What do they do with the booklet? Does it have multiple pages? Do they stamp you in and out on that booklet? I cannot make a comment about requiring the booklet unless I knew what it is used for.
If the visa is stamped in a passport, how would the booklet be enough? The booklet would be enough only of the visa was stamped in the booklet. But visa cannot be stamped in a booklet, for it's not a passport.

The OCI booklet is officially a "certificate of registration" or something similar. It is not a passport and it never gets stamped. It contains all of the information that is on the OCI visa, which is affixed in the passport (looks just like a tourist visa but different code for type (U) and contains the statement that the person is an OCI). The pictures on the visa and in the booklet are the same. The OCI booklet even has a field for the passport number that the visa was originally put in. Seems silly to require presenting the booklet when the visa has all the same information anyway.

I does seem unnecessary. I can think of two possible reasons:

1. The booklet might be used for exercising some privileges that OCI are allowed but other visa holders are not allowed, employment is one example, if OCI are allowed to work.
2. The Government might have some future use in mind.

These are pure conjectures on my part.

I looked at the Indian Embassy page about OCI. It says:
THERE IS NO EMERGENCY SERVICE FOR OCI. DO NOT PLAN TRAVEL BEFORE YOU RECEIVE OCI IN YOUR HAND.

Are you not allowed to India during the period between submission of your application and receipt of your OCI visa? It seems to me that you should be able to travel.

I am an equal opportunity humiliatee :)

Governments don't realise, maybe they do, that they are making things worse by preventing people from visiting their country. Most people, even with Pakistani connections who want to come to India, want to come for tourism, or visit friends and relatives. Both countries should allow visitors freely so that the two peoples can see the reality first hand instead of being fed by politicians and the media. When applying for a visa to India or Pakistan, political connections do help.
I was invited to a friend's wedding in Lahore, but I decided not to go because of what would await me upon my return to the U.S.

i don't think india is strict when considering visa aplications from muslims....my friends & family are coming to india all the time & they have never had a problem getting a visa....

the pakistan travel may be an issue but its got nothing to do with the muslim name....

I see hundreds of passports daily in my job so i got a possible answer for the pre-partition born in PAK land question situation.

Indian passports for those who are born in Pakistan land before partition have place of birth as e.g. Lahore, Undivided India. Now this is an official Indian document so i guess it is pretty safe to put down Undivided India as place of birth regarding the question of those born in pak before partition.