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Jet and the Star Alliance. Will they / Won't they?

Jet and the Star Alliance. Will they / Won't they?

Old Aug 2, 2012, 9:17 am
  #61  
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Originally Posted by rurouni212
While *A may have played hardball, the fact that it took AI 4 years to try to join and the fact that the alliance was forced to set a deadline for joining threw up all kinds of red flags about AI. AI and the GoI dug their own grave as far as this goes. They just got mad when someone threw dirt on top of them.
Why doesn't *A rject AI's application outright? To continue the intrigue?
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 9:37 am
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
Some FF's think the same about Jet. They expect Jet to give away business class seats for economy class fare. There will always be interest groups who want to maximise their advantage whether it's AI, or Jet.
At least these FF's don't have a conflict of interest when deciding something related to India's aviation.
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 9:39 am
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
Why doesn't *A rject AI's application outright? To continue the intrigue?
More politics at play, outright rejection would guarantee retaliation. Obviously whether or not such a move is justified has/is/forever will be discussed.
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 9:45 am
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Originally Posted by rurouni212
At least these FF's don't have a conflict of interest when deciding something related to India's aviation.
Conflict of interest. Now that's a novel concept, For India that is. Has conflict of interest ever detracted anyone in India? . The problem is entitlement. You are no more entitled to a business class seat if you bough an economy class ticket than any one else who did not pay.
This hype about GoI officials treating AI is their personal fleet is given more importance than it deserves. All airlines give special deals to Govt employees in the U.S. There is not change penalty on tickets issued to Federal Govt employees. People like to blame the Govt for everything. People make the Govt. It doesn't come from Mars.
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 9:47 am
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Originally Posted by rurouni212
More politics at play, outright rejection would guarantee retaliation. Obviously whether or not such a move is justified has/is/forever will be discussed.
Oh what a shock it is! So politics did play a part in it.
That blows the theory that politics played no part in the process.
QED
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 10:05 am
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
Conflict of interest. Now that's a novel concept, For India that is. Has conflict of interest ever detracted anyone in India? . The problem is entitlement. You are no more entitled to a business class seat if you bough an economy class ticket than any one else who did not pay.
This hype about GoI officials treating AI is their personal fleet is given more importance than it deserves. All airlines give special deals to Govt employees in the U.S. There is not change penalty on tickets issued to Federal Govt employees. People like to blame the Govt for everything. People make the Govt. It doesn't come from Mars.
I wouldn't be to sure about India's government. That aside, the point is is that while some FF may feel entitled, what they receive is business between the individual and the airline. The government portion must be responsible about what they control in the aviation sector. As you've pointed out, they can't continue being AI-centric forever, especially given AI's status.
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 10:07 am
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
Oh what a shock it is! So politics did play a part in it.
That blows the theory that politics played no part in the process.
QED
Never said politics didn't play a part in all of this.

EDIT: Going back to the topic of the thread. I think that the GoI should let 9W into *A and demand payment from the alliance for AI membership fees and perhaps interest. What I think will actually happen is the GoI will hold a grudge. Just wondering what form it's going to come in.
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 10:23 am
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Originally Posted by rurouni212
Never said politics didn't play a part in all of this.
You did not. Many others acted as if politics played no part.

Originally Posted by rurouni212
EDIT: Going back to the topic of the thread. I think that the GoI should let 9W into *A and demand payment from the alliance for AI membership fees and perhaps interest. What I think will actually happen is the GoI will hold a grudge. Just wondering what form it's going to come in.
That's certainly an option. I also think that LH has gotten too much. far more than anyone airline should be granted. That has to be set right.
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 10:28 am
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
You did not. Many others acted as if politics played no part.



That's certainly an option. I also think that LH has gotten too much. far more than anyone airline should be granted. That has to be set right.
The only way I see LH keeping much of what it has is if AI gets into *A. Given the chances of that, they should probably start hammering out new schedules to India.
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 5:32 pm
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Originally Posted by rurouni212
I wouldn't be to sure about India's government. That aside, the point is is that while some FF may feel entitled, what they receive is business between the individual and the airline. The government portion must be responsible about what they control in the aviation sector. As you've pointed out, they can't continue being AI-centric forever, especially given AI's status.
Right. On the one hand, GoI should think on wider scale--industry, as opposed to an airline, but on the other, as the owner of AI, the Govt must act in the best interest of AI. Since both can;t be done at the same time, the Govt should divest itself of AI ownership.

According extra privileges to by an airline, even on that's not owned by the Govt, is normal even in the largest capitalist economy. So let's not make that a big issue. Govt employees act as most Indians do, take advantage of their position or personal connection, whether kosher or not. Govt employees are but a microcosm of Indian society.

Last edited by Yaatri; Aug 2, 2012 at 6:00 pm
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 6:12 pm
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Originally Posted by rurouni212
The only way I see LH keeping much of what it has is if AI gets into *A. Given the chances of that, they should probably start hammering out new schedules to India.
If GoI has given up on AI's entry into *A there is really no reason for the Govt to delay acting on 9W's request. But I am afraid, there will be quite a bit of horse trading behind the scenes involving issues that have nothing to do with civil aviation.
If LH is made to give up the privileges it secured under the pretense of mentoring and guiding AI into the alliance, *A loyalists will get all bent out of shape. Ability to do one stops to NA out of airports served by LH is not something they would like to give up.

If the German Govt comes to bat for LH, stripping LH of those extra slots will not be easy.

It would be impossible for LH to give any assurances to the GoI regarding AI's membership to *A. The Govt might take the stand that until *A takes a final action, not a mere suspension, on AI's application, and dispense it in accordance with any contractual (rather financial) obligations, the Govt cannot act on the 9W request as it would/could potentially mean two Indian carriers in one alliance.
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 6:12 pm
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
Why doesn't *A rject AI's application outright? To continue the intrigue?
Because then *A would presumably have to repay the 60+ crores AI spent in joining fees (with possibly interest), along with the compensation agreement they and AI agree to (and we've all seen how AI is with compensation agreements during this 787 debacle )

It would also probably not be politically prudent.

However, *A will now have to make an important decision: 1)take AI, the less appealing option, or 2) reject AI and take 9W, and face the consequences.
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 6:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
The Govt might take the stand that until *A takes a final action, not a mere suspension, on AI's application, and dispense it in accordance with any contractual (rather financial) obligations, the Govt cannot act on the 9W request as it would/could potentially mean two Indian carriers in one alliance.
This is precisely the stand that GoI has taken.
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 6:18 pm
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Because then *A would presumably have to repay the 60+ crores AI spent in joining fees (with possibly interest), along with the compensation agreement they and AI agree to (and we've all seen how AI is with compensation agreements during this 787 debacle )It would also probably not be politically prudent.
The question was rhetorical. The claim that, *A acted fairly and honestly is belied by the fact that *A did not reject AI's application. It's naive for people to think that there is no intrigue. Rs 60 crores plus is not a large amount.

Last edited by Yaatri; Aug 3, 2012 at 2:30 pm
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Old Aug 2, 2012, 7:13 pm
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
This is precisely the stand that GoI has taken.
No. GoI has had a "dog in the manger" stand towards airlines and alliances all along.
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