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Oneworld - the eventual quiet winner
So - with the looks of a long term row developing, some thoughts:
1) LH will NOT get 380 slots into India. EK will probably beat them to it (given they know how to work Indian governments) 2) 9W/AI will get left out of a major alliance till this settles down. 3) Most importantly - the quiet gainer and first and probably only Indian airline to join a major alliance is going to be Kingfisher - who is all set to join oneworld. They changed RBD's from July 27th to cut over to oneworld systems (U for biz redemptions and X for eco redemptions) At the end of the day - Dr. Mallya is having the last laugh, with Willie Walsh by his side... |
At the moment you are correct. Before we go any further, lets agree not to use silly arguments such as use AI sucks Skyteam sucks, DL sucks. It leads to endless arguments and baseless accusations such as Yaatri wants AI to join Star Alliance, eventually leading to the thread being closed.
Lets leave it at AI is bad but LH is not perfect. What remains to be seen is Who blinks first between AI/GoI and Star Alliance How badly AI/GoI want to be in Star Alliance It was reported in What went wrong with Air India's entry into Star Alliance? that Of the 27 member airlines at Star Alliance, 25 voted against AI in July when the airline was due to join the global network. The Ministry of Civil Aviation and AI officials had expectations entirely at odds with this. AI still has the option of joining Skyteam. provided they are willing to accept, that for whatever reasons, they were not good enough in the eyes of member airlines of Star Alliance. The smart thing for AI would be to go for Skyteam. Frequent Flyers of member airlines of Star Alliance weren't going to give AI what it so desperately needs and wants.
Star Alliance is the biggest loser in 5 scenarios above, LH in 4, 9W in 3, AI in 2 Skyteam is a loser in only two of the six scenarios. IMHO here is the list of losers in order of biggest to least. Star Alliance Lufthansa Jet Airways Air India Skyteam Alliances are not as important an entity as airlines in my opinion, as a good alliance has bad airlines. In a losing situation Lufthansa is the biggest loser and DL the least, as LH stands to lose what it has, while DL just won't get what it doesn't have. As to Mallya, he will have plenty of opportunities to open his big mouth and embarrass himself. BLR-SFO nonstop anyone? It doesn't even fly to NA yet. Finally one little question. Is their a minor alliance? :p |
Originally Posted by avm2806
(Post 16844069)
At the end of the day - Dr. Mallya is having the last laugh, with Willie Walsh by his side...
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Unless of course the government of India throws a real tantrum and decides that no Indian carrier gets to join an alliance until AI has. They have said a number of times that they want AI to have the advantage of being 'first mover', it is not beyond the realms of possibility for them to decide to block IT at the last minute out of pure spite. Has OW announced an approximate date for IT's accession yet?
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Originally Posted by kiwiandrew
(Post 16845291)
Has OW announced an approximate date for IT's accession yet?
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Originally Posted by kiwiandrew
(Post 16845291)
Unless of course the government of India throws a real tantrum and decides that no Indian carrier gets to join an alliance until AI has. They have said a number of times that they want AI to have the advantage of being 'first mover', it is not beyond the realms of possibility for them to decide to block IT at the last minute out of pure spite. Has OW announced an approximate date for IT's accession yet?
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Originally Posted by Keyser
(Post 16845021)
its all good right now but with all its financial problems lets hope it doesn't go under in another year or so....
As we all know, there is little love for AI. AI has no loyal flyers, on the contrary there are people who would not fly AI under any circumstances. My position on AI has been quite clear, I would fly AI if I could earn status and redeemable miles.
Originally Posted by Keyser
(Post 16845511)
first quarter of 2012....
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skyteam has a horribly poor network in India - but if as a result AF gets some of the slots LH might lose, I won't mind. They're a pretty good airline inflight (and much better food and wine than LH, naturellement) if you can stand CDG for a few hours.
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Originally Posted by hserus
(Post 16848276)
skyteam has a horribly poor network in India - but if as a result AF gets some of the slots LH might lose, I won't mind. They're a pretty good airline inflight (and much better food and wine than LH, naturellement) if you can stand CDG for a few hours.
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Originally Posted by yulred
(Post 16848468)
Does it? I thought AF/KL were tied up with 9W for domestic flights. I know the old KL had a lot of tie-ups with 9W. 9W has a pretty decent domestic system. Of course, I have no clue about what, if any, ST miles one can accrue on them, but then again, the domestic routes aren't all that long (assuming ST pax connect in BOM, DEL, BLR), so they won't be missing out on much.
When I'm flying long haul to the states or Europe, the last thing I want to do is to fly domestic to DEL or BOM and connect from there, just adds several wasted hours to my travel time. |
Originally Posted by yulred
(Post 16848468)
Does it? I thought AF/KL were tied up with 9W for domestic flights. I know the old KL had a lot of tie-ups with 9W. 9W has a pretty decent domestic system. Of course, I have no clue about what, if any, ST miles one can accrue on them, but then again, the domestic routes aren't all that long (assuming ST pax connect in BOM, DEL, BLR), so they won't be missing out on much.
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Originally Posted by hserus
(Post 16848507)
Poor as in, AF/KL used to fly to a lot more Indian cities than they currently do (like my home city MAA - where I was plat on AF till they withdrew the direct flight on a 343). They withdrew all those flights and replaced them with interline deals (not even codeshares, the airline will sell you tickets with those segments on IT / 9W flight codes).
When I'm flying long haul to the states or Europe, the last thing I want to do is to fly domestic to DEL or BOM and connect from there, just adds several wasted hours to my travel time. |
Nonstop to europe from my city (MAA) will do very well indeed. I dont particularly care about their connectivity to other cities.
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
(Post 16848650)
I am not sure about other Skyteam carriers, but you can earn DL miles, (redeemable miles, not status miles) on 9W and IT. With the new terminal in DEL, connecting in DEL is much easier than it used to be, or is in BOM.
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
(Post 16844605)
At the moment you are correct. Before we go any further, lets agree not to use silly arguments such as use AI sucks Skyteam sucks, DL sucks. It leads to endless arguments and baseless accusations such as Yaatri wants AI to join Star Alliance, eventually leading to the thread being closed.
Lets leave it at AI is bad but LH is not perfect. What remains to be seen is Who blinks first between AI/GoI and Star Alliance How badly AI/GoI want to be in Star Alliance It was reported in What went wrong with Air India's entry into Star Alliance? that . The Ministry of Civil Aviation and AI officials had expectations entirely at odds with this. AI still has the option of joining Skyteam. provided they are willing to accept, that for whatever reasons, they were not good enough in the eyes of member airlines of Star Alliance. The smart thing for AI would be to go for Skyteam. Frequent Flyers of member airlines of Star Alliance weren't going to give AI what it so desperately needs and wants.
Star Alliance is the biggest loser in 5 scenarios above, LH in 4, 9W in 3, AI in 2 Skyteam is a loser in only two of the six scenarios. IMHO here is the list of losers in order of biggest to least. Star Alliance Lufthansa Jet Airways Air India Skyteam Alliances are not as important an entity as airlines in my opinion, as a good alliance has bad airlines. In a losing situation Lufthansa is the biggest loser and DL the least, as LH stands to lose what it has, while DL just won't get what it doesn't have. As to Mallya, he will have plenty of opportunities to open his big mouth and embarrass himself. BLR-SFO nonstop anyone? It doesn't even fly to NA yet. Finally one little question. Is their a minor alliance? :p Anyway the situation at the moment is so murky that anything can happen. I'm actually glad to see LH finally being on the receiving end for once, having failed with their usual perfected recipe of cajoling, arrogant behavior, chicanery and GoG unabashed support, political and financial alike.Good also to see GoI, albeit in their own twisted way, imposing some kind of strategic policy on air transport, and trying to enforce it against external demands. |
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