Please help FlyI Stop Service to LAX starting 10/01/2005
 

Hello Everyone,

Please give me some guidance because I am not sure what to do I booked 2 tickets to LAX from WashingtonDC for 10/07/05-10/15/05 last month and I just got a call from flyi and was told that they 'll stop flying to LAX. They said they can fly my family to Las Vegas or San Diego instead. I told them that these two cities are at least several hours away from LAX and I have already booked the Hotel and Car rental. Please let me WHat is my right. Could I tell them to book family on another airline.

Please let me know soon.
Thanks

You are out of luck... They really don't even have to offer LAS or SAN. Midwest Airlines stopped flying to New Orleans and told me that my ticket (almost 4 months away) could either be refunded or applied towards another fare. Well it was a GREAT fare and I would have to pay lots to get somewhere else.... And they have interline agreements with other airlines - Indy Air does not....

Welcome to Flyertalk, sonple. :)

Your only real right is to demand a refund. If I were you, I'd try to get a refund ASAP. My money is on FlyI shutting down prior to October 1. If you wait until DH shuts down, it will be too late.

Log on to Southwest's website and buy tickets there. BWI-LAX is reasonable. Not as cheap as your FlyI tix, but then again, WN isn't out of money and isn't canceling its routes. WN isn't always the cheapest, but their fares are always fair.

The other option is Jetblue out of Long Beach.

Good point. JetBlue is currently about $30 cheaper than WN for those dates. Actual fares will vary depending on time of day the OP wishes to fly. On B6, about $255 all in per person. Not bad.

The refund will NOT be pulled out from underneath you, but I advise you to call to receive one immediately.


Cheers.

Thank You
 

Thank you everyone for your sugestions. I called flyi and changed my flight to Las Vegas instead.
Thanks again,
Sonple

:confused:

Ok - but don't come back and complain if your FlyI trip blows up on you - you were warned. ;)

Good luck. :)

You know, if you are serious, I would be more then willing to take you up on that bet. I have some FlyI tickets booked as far as November and I am not the least bit worried about them closing shop. Chapter 11 - maybe, possibly. Shutting down - no way.

I'll take that bet. DH has nothing to offer prospective DIP financiers so Ch 11 is not going to happen.

DIP do not care about the viability of the business model - it is a bridge loan andthey have first liens on unencumbered assets...I think you mean that no one will offer exit financing or equity investment in to DH.

True....the DIp lenders are in it for themselves.

But what's left at FlyI that is still unencumbered? Pretty much nothing from what I have read.

DC

I meant exactly what I said...in order to get DIP financing they would have offer up something of value. They have nothing left so Ch 11 is not an option.

DH is going directly into receivership and I would bet before the holidays.

Alright, I will gladly take you up on that bet ^

yevlesh2,

I'd take the bet too. If for no other reason, I kind of like being on the side which very few other people are on, including all the experts. What would it say about the value of industry experts if we are right? Plus, it makes the odds more risky, but also there's a bigger payout if you win. :)

Second, practically speaking, why do so many people think they know exactly what DH does and does not have or that they know exactly who DH is or is not negotiating with? Again, as I've said in the other thread on CH. 11, I'm certainly not guaranteeing their efforts will be fruitful and salvage the airline, but the belief that the carrier has nothing to offer is quite in the dark.


Cheers.

Do we have any accurate statements on what unencumbered assets they have?
There may be some hidden ones that could extract value. (Maybe jetBlue would like their ORD gate? Or perhaps their reservation system and computers has some value?) The Airbus planes could fetch some value - but I'm guessing those are pretty much all spoken for (and then some) And the RJs? With the cutbacks expected from DL and NW, there may not be much local demand for them... Then there is the flying certificate, and local airport operations... Maybe the someone like the 'yet to launch' "virgin usa" could really use some of those assets to help their launch. Could a merger be a possibility? Or a liquidation? Or a prepackaged Ch. 11? Or some miracle in the business model that turns a profit? Or more saviors that come to help? Plenty of things could happen...

Everytime I skim this thread I keep thinking the thread title infers

"Please help FlyI Stop Service to LAX starting 10/01/2005"

instead of

"Please help, FlyI Stop Service to LAX starting 10/01/2005"

That comma makes a world of difference ;)

You aren't the only one that sees it that way. Actually the reason I clicked on the thread, couldn't understand why someone would want to organize an effort to so that FlyI would stop service to LAX.

:D

Reminds me of why so many people oughtta read Eats, Shoots & Leaves. :)

From a quick perusal of the 2004 annual report, as of March 28,2005:

FlyI owned 0 319's and 8 CRj's... 6 319's are scheduled to be purchased in 2006 and 10 more in 2007.

they leased 8 319's and 74 CRj's (24 of which are scheduled to be returned)

All gates and airport facilaties at IAD are leased or used via a 60 day user permit (the Airbus gates) The Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority is the owner. Maintenance hangars/space in IAD, MCO, and CAE are leased as are the flight simulators..and corporate office space....

They do have slot authority for JFK and HPN, but whether they can sell these is unclear to me. They have gotten them as a "new entrant carrier" and using the exception for Rj's.

Add in the changes over the past six months to aircraft deliveries, etc...and I don't see much that FlyI has to use as collateral for DIP money. Nothing for them to sell.

As to what someone else might find attractive (the Virgin USA theory) well the gates in IAD that FlyI control are not useable for anything other than RJ ops. Though I bet UAL would like to get those back under its control and be rid of Terminal G. And I believe the ORD gate is actually leased from Continental.

DC

Is the EWR gate for Indy a RJ Gate? Could Jetblue use it to alevate the possible problems caused by late flights going out of just 2 gates?

On the original issue, you can sometimes get a Jetblue roundtrip from LAS to LGB for under $100 to continue your trip.

Unless you really want to go to LAS instead, I'd cancel the flight and buy the Jetblue or AA or UA flight instead to get to LAX on the days you wanted. The UA non-stop is pricing around $220 right now.

Get out Quick
 

Sad to say but Independence is not Delta or Northwest - All reports are they Independence will be in bankrupt before the end of the month - probably out of business.

My guess is the folks who are trying to save US, UA, DL, and NW will gladly sacrifice this little airline. It cuts capacity and fares may go up. Yes Jet blue and Southwest may pick up some of the slack but until JetBlue puts its new smaller planes in service, these airlines will not be flying to places like Columbia, SC and Charlestown, WV.

The lack of Independence means the legacy airlines can charge higher fares.

If I had tickets for travel on Independence, I would move fast to get on another airline. Unfortunately, those moves will quicken the demise.

I wish you luck, although I hope you paid for the tickets with a credit card...

People have been saying that DH is weeks away from liquidation since early this year (or before) and they have all been wrong. Ultimately we are all just armchair quarterbacks, but I still think that there are actually a lot of people out there that DH can tap for money. The numerous "best of" awards that DH has been given recently shows that they are an airline that people love to fly and will continue to fly if given the chance... their only roadblock is financial. Investors notice that sort of thing, and know that if they can help DH get over the financial hump they can cash in on the success. Not to say that it won't be bumpy, but there is still hope.
We will see.

For real? JFK and and HPN are not slot controlled, so I had no idea there were landing rights or what not to be sold. Perhaps JFK is being confused with LGA? LGA is slot controlled.

Spampurse, I agree with you on this one. I have yet to see *ANY* real reports of a BK filing coming soon. Everybody here makes generic references to "reports" without even bothering to post a link to a real report.

See for your self.....

http://www.flyi.com/company/annualreports/2004.pdf

page 15 under the subheading of slots.....

Slots. Slots are reservations for takeoffs and landings at specified times and are required by
governmental authorities to operate at certain airports within the United States. Independence Air has
rights to and utilizes takeoff and landing slots at New York-Kennedy, and White Plains, New York
airports. Airlines may acquire slots by governmental grant, by lease or purchase from other airlines, or
by loan when another airline does not use a slot but desires to avoid governmental reallocation of a
slot for lack of use. All leased and loaned slots are subject to renewal and termination provisions.
Under law presently in effect, slot regulation at Kennedy airport is scheduled to end after January 1,
2007. The rules also provide that, in addition to those slots currently held by carriers, operators of
regional jet aircraft and new entrant air carriers may apply for, and the Secretary of Transportation
must grant, additional slots at New York-Kennedy in order to permit the carriers to offer new service,
increase existing service or upgrade to regional jet service in qualifying smaller communities. There is
no limit on the number of slots a carrier may request. Prior to the commencement of services by
Independence Air, Independence Air requested and obtained from the FAA, under the provisions of
current law, slots necessary to operate its flight schedule to and from New York Kennedy Airport. The
New York Kennedy Airport slots are permanent, subject to loss due to nonuse. To the extent
Independence Air would seek to operate narrow-body aircraft at Kennedy or any other slot controlled
airport, it will have to either purchase or lease slots from another air carrier or be qualified to obtain
such slots under the then current regulatory regime. Slots at White Plains, New York airport are held
in the name of Independence Air and are sufficient to conduct operations at the airport. As a result of
congestion at Chicago O’Hare Airport, on January 21, 2004, the FAA entered an Order requiring the
two largest O’Hare carriers, United Airlines and American Airlines, to reduce their O’Hare flight
schedules, including the schedules operated by carriers affiliated with these major carriers. The FAA
order was subsequently extended until October 2004. Prior to its expiration, the FAA, on August 18,
2004, issued another order setting limits through April 30, 2005 on the number of air carrier arrivals at
O’Hare during peak hours to reduce the level of airport congestion and applied the terms of the order
to all domestic carriers operating at O’Hare, including Independence Air. The FAA has proposed to
extend the effectiveness of this order until October 30, 2005 during which time the FAA has indicated
that it intends to propose and adopt a longer term, more permanent solution to the issue of O’Hare
airport delays. At the current time, Independence Air has sufficient rights to conduct flights at O’Hare
during the controlled hours. Should the FAA propose additional limits on Independence Air flight
arrivals, it may not be able to develop a flight schedule that maximizes Independence Air’s revenue
opportunities.

Weird. I wonder if that section of the report is technically accurate. If an airport is slot controlled, it is slot controlled for all users on an IFR flight plan, both airline and general aviation. That means joe in the Cessna (if IFR) and Hillary in the private jet both have to call a special FAA phone number within a certain window to obtain their arrival/departure slot. I have never seen slot control procedures for JFK and HPN, which is why I question the accuracy of that section of the report.

That does sound accurate based on what I have heard. I recall JetBlue getting a huge amount of slots at JFK for their launch. Part of how they did this was by promising the flight service to upstate New York. As I recall, DCA, JFK, ORD, and LGA were the slot controlled airports in the US. ORD and LGA both had them lifted, however, LGA had some huge amounts of congestion, and pretty much had them back in place.

FlyI was perhaps one of the causes of the O'Hare restrictions. Their service launched with a large number of flights around the time O'hare was really choking on capacity. They got plenty of bad press for launching frequent, seemingling redundant RJ service at the time. However, the DOT stepped in and brokered a deal with United and American that would reduce flights; though ironically, the 'new entrant' and regional exemptions would pretty much let FlyI come in and will.

HPN is its own thing. I believe the neighbors (wealthy Connecticut and Westchester) are against the airport, and thus have restrictions on passenger capacity. (Though ironically, it seems the corporate business jets are the noisiest planes - but those are what they themselves are flying on.)

JFK slots are scheduled to be completely phased out by Jan 1, 2007, IIRC, so those slots are of limited value.

Having been based in NY twice in my flying career...I know that both LGA and JFK have the slot program. (JFK might be only during the high travel times of the day) And as others have posted the Act signed in 2001 ( i think that was the year) removed the slots immediately from a couple of airports and phased them out in others...

LGA technically still had slots but no limits if there was new entrant service or via new markets with RJ's....basically turned it into a CF with 1 hour+ Taxi IN times....so they reestablished the slots for all flights temporarily....

Yet another example of the right hand (Congress) demanding/implimenting without the left (FAA/local airports authority) knowing the effects of said changes...

And HPN is not so much slot controlled via the FAA/DOT as it is from the local airport authority.

DC