telescopic

Hola,

I have done a few flights between LHR and MAD now and have questions on terminal T4/S:

- is there any rhyme or reason as to how flights are split between T4 and T4S? The MAD wiki suggests T4 is only for Schengen/Domestic and T4S for non-Schengen/non-domestic which would suggest UK flights should be out of T4S. Most, but not all, seem to be out of T4 instead. It doesn't seem to be based on operated carrier or airport either.

- Most UK bound flights out of T4 seem to be from H gates (H1-8 if I recall), which has passport control before being able to access these specific gates only, other gates are freely accessible. Presumably this is due to UK not being in Schengen even though it is in EU (for now)? Has this always been the procedure or is this something new/temporary?

LupineChemist

IB narrowbody flights to LHR leave from T4 main while BA and IB widebody flights to LHR leave from T4S.

The mini non-Schengen zone has always been that way and is used basically specifically for UK and Ireland flights that don't need a security check on arrival.

craigthemif

I would also assume that it gives IB more flexibility with aircraft rotations since the majority of widebodies would be serving international routes whilst the narrowbodies would be usually on domestic and Schengen routes. Saves towing airplanes back and forth...

BA6501

DUB, MAN, EDI, CWL, BHX, DBV, SPU, ZAG, ORK etc also leave from there.

When IB moved most LHR flights to that area quite a number of years back now, it was stated that it was "for convenience".

It doesn't really give IB more flexibility unless the passengers are bussed in/out. Therefore you'll often see a certain aircraft doing MAD-LHR-MAD-LHR-MAD in a day. Where IB has flexibility is at T4S between S gates and M gates (same gate, different levels, S is non-Schengen and M is Schengen) - often seen with the morning ORY flight (inbound from DKR), the late BSL flight (out to TLV/DME), and other similar cases (e.g. CMN/RAK).

LupineChemist

I know there's at least one gate, and I would assume a second on the other side that have boarding from both the Schengen and non-Schengen side of the control point. They can just put a plane at one of those two if they want to rotate into a Schengen service.

Also, using buses does happen. It's also common for US flights in T4S where you have to go through the secondary control but the plane may be somewhere else.

telescopic

So, is the main reason an IB choice for operational flexibility or is T4 unable to accommodate wide-body aircraft (easily or at all)? It is confusing as it seems all BA operated flights, even on narrow-body aircraft, are out of T4S which isn't something I was expecting to find given the IB-BA harmonization.

Listing destinations, the obvious other UK one out of T4 is LGW, I remember seeing quiet a few including on Iberia Express. Besides UK and Eire (non-Schengen) Croatia (Schengen) is not always T4, it varies between T4 and T4S, even for same narrowbody aircraft. Other similar destinations like PRG, BUD, VIE, etc. also do this alternating between T4 and T4S but, importantly, they do not use these special H gates but regular ones like J40-60.

BA6501

Yes I've been bussed a couple of times inbound from ORY when the aircraft was going to LHR - lovely disembarking onto a jetbridge and then being taken down stairs to a bus!

I believe T4 cannot accommodate wide-body aircraft, it would also be quite a hassle. The A340 that goes to LHR often arrives only about 1h30 earlier from South America, and most passengers are connecting from that inbound "wave". Much easier to just keep them and the aircraft in T4S rather than towing it across and bussing everyone over. Certainly the pre-arrival video onboard states "you will be arriving into T4S" with no doubt about it, regardless of whether it's a Schengen or non-Schengen flight.

Croatia is not Schengen. Schengen flights (ORY, PRG, BUD, VIE...) departing from T4S are only for Iberia's convenience and depart from the lower (very quiet!) level of the building, M gates, which is accessed just before immigration. This would be because the aircraft is inbound/outbound from/to a non-Schengen destination - or simply because T4 is full (unlikely). The other time this could happen is if it is operated by an A330/A340.

LupineChemist

The mid haul 319 also tends to stay at T4S, so if you get that for a Schengen flight, it's likely to be M. Though I had one last month direct from T4 so there's no hard and fast rule for that one.

Another point to add, for people connecting to non-Schengen from LHR arriving in T4, they have a bus that will take you directly to T4S without passing immigration.

telescopic

You are correct, Croatia is not Schengen, my mistake.

OK, so among other things I have learned if I want to fly out of T4S to LHR I best go on BA unless IB3166 (the A340 flight early evening) is an option for my schedule.

BA6501

Exactly.

MAD-LCY (BA) used to depart from T4, however. It was in T4S until about 5 years ago then moved.

Ldnn1

Yes, and it's worth saying that if it does suit your schedule, IB3166 is a very good way to fly this shorthaul route, whether in J or Y.

Note it can be an A340 or A330 - both have the same hard product.