NJUPINTHEAIR

As many of you know, for some time, I have been a big booster of Hyatt hotels and their Gold Passport Program.

In addition, I have criticized those FT posters who (IMHO) have "nickel and dimed" Hyatt by earning Stay and/or FFN credit by merely having a minor room charge -- i.e., by making a $1.00 phone call, or the like.

Furthermore, up until today, I have had uniformly good service from Hyatt Gold Passport.

Well, no longer.

I have just gotten off the phone with both Ms. Erica Gordon of Gold Passport, and her supervisor, Ms. Rhonda Welburn. Neither of them were willing to credit my wife's GP account -- even as a courtesy -- for the GP points my wife should have earned from her approximately $200.00 (I believe it was near this amount but do not at this time have the bill in front of me) in spa charges, although Ms. Welburn did relent and agree to credit my wife with "stay" credit towards her elite status earnings for this year.

Please understand that Ms. Welburn was fully aware that my wife's current stay count (not including this contested stay) stands at 22 for the year, and that mine currently stands at 26. Moreover, she also is aware that we are both Hyatt GP Diamond members.

In addition, I informed Ms. Welburn that in the past, we have had GP points credited for spa services -- specifically at both the Kauai and Bonita Springs properties -- although to be fair, I incorrectly indicated that such charges appeared under my wife's account -- In this I was in error. Hyatt GP points were credited for such services to my account.

Moreover, Ms. Welburn indicated to me that such charges were treated by the Beaver Creek property tantamount to those of an outside vendor and thus not eligible for GP points. I informed her that there was nothing said to us that such charges would not earn GP points and that it was the responsibility of the property to do make us aware of this if they were not eligible for GP earnings, inasmuch as the online advertisement for the Allegria Spa clearly left one with the impression that this entity was part and parcel of the hotel:

http://beavercreek.hyatt.com/propert...pa/index.jhtml
(Emphasis Added)

Or, how about this:

http://www.hyatt.com/corporate/resorts/spa.jhtml
(Emphasis Added)

If that were not enough, I specifically referenced her to the Hyatt GP points earning page:

http://www.goldpassport.com/terms/ea...snav=4&gpnav=0

and its apparently controlling Subparagraph 3, which states the following:


I then asked Ms. Welburn just how many spas Hyatt had. She was unable to provide me a number but she did concede that there were many spas at Hyatt resorts (and hotels?). I then followed by stating that given that there were a large number of such spas and that the charges for treatments therefrom could be quite considerable, just where in the above paragraph does it specifically alert someone to the apparently very real fact that spa services might not qualify for GP earnings?

After all, one would think that with such an abundance of spas at Hyatt, that at least some mention would have been made in the Hyatt GP terms and conditions -- as they are with respect to restaurant charges.

She said that spa charges are considered as "services provided by outside vendors." I countered that (1). that was not the case that we were accustomed to when we utilized spa services at Bonita Springs and the Kauai properties; (2). the advertising for such spa services, as I have demonstrated above, makes more than a colorable case leading one to believe that spas could very easily be seen as part and parcel of the hotel, and not as separate outside vendors; and again (3). that inasmuch as spas are quite ubiquitous among the many Hyatt hotels and resorts, and that since no specific mention of them is made, at all, in the above subparagraph, it is quite deceptive to lump them together as an afterthought, as merely services provided by "outside vendors;" as if spa services were comparable to those involving a lease of a rental car, or other like things, that clearly can be differentiated from standard hotel services and which would clearly be encompassed by that subject phrase.

Not winning that argument, she then tried to negate my request for GP point credit for the spa services by then asking who actually had "paid" for the charges -- adding that if I had used my credit card, that negated my claim for GP points under my wife's stay, even though the reservation was made under her name, and we had used one of her FFNs for the stay.

Fortunately, she could not even win on this pathetic "interpretation" of Hyatt's rules, as the stay was split between a credit card solely in my name, and one whose account number we jointly share. I never before -- and hope never again -- to hear this sort ridiculous of argument from a member of Hyatt GP, as to who exactly "paid" for the room, irrespective of whose name was on the reservation, or under whose name the reservation was made. There have been countless threads on this exact issue in this forum -- to which the Hyatt GP Concierge has never raised any issue with before -- as well as my own personal experience, that it matters not a whit, who actually "paid" for the room. This argument is nothing more than a "red herring," for regardless of whose name the credit card is in, if there are legitimate charges to the room, then Hyatt GP points and stay credit have always been considered to be earned legitimately. Period.

Ms. Welburn then informed me that she would not under any circumstances provide a "courtesy" Hyatt GP adjustment to my wife's account for merely the Hyatt GP points that would have been earned from the spa services. She advised that my wife would only earn Hyatt GP points if, and only if, they were not followed by an asterisk on the hotel bill -- which I do not have at my ready disposal at the moment.

Never mind, that when one books a spa appointment, one is not told that such services are not considered as emanating from the hotel -- despite the fact that they appear on the hotel bill -- nor, is one ever told that one will not earn Hyatt GP points for such services, nor that such charges will be followed by an asterisk to advise one -- only after the fact -- that such charges are considered separate and apart from other hotel "services."

Such nonsensical double-talk as that which I have received from Ms Welburn, Manager of Gold Passport, is what I would have expected from a faceless government bureaucrat, and a badly informed one, at that. It is not what I heretofore had come to expect from someone in Hyatt GP, let alone an individual who has risen to the level of being a supervisor in that program.

Finally, Ms. Welburn was fully aware of my keen displeasure with her overall response to my complaints and l made her fully aware that I had intended to e-mail more than a few individuals within the Hyatt corporate structure concerning this imbroglio and her halfhearted, and IMHO, totally unimpressive manner in which she has chosen to deal with this issue. Like the government bureaucrat that I have made her out to be, she was equally nonplused with the manner in which I advised her I would express my displeasure.

Until such time as my wife and I gain a clearer understanding as to what is, and is not, subject to Hyatt GP point accumulation, as well as an apology for the pedestrian way in which this complaint was handled by Ms. Welburn, neither my wife, nor I, will ever again utilize any of the Hyatt spas and their many services.

In addition, inasmuch as Subparagraph 3 above, indicates that Restaurant charges are allowable for Hyatt GP earnings "(except at outlets not operated by the hotel)," we henceforth, shall deem all restaurants to be so circumscribed under such an exception, unless specifically notified or advised to the contrary. Therefore, we are unlikely to patronize Hyatt hotel restaurants such as the Melrose, nor Nomi for dinner anymore. I have chosen these restaurants, because we recently had the pleasure of dining at these venues, and had charged approximately $450.00 for dinner at the former and $625.00 at the latter, respectively.

I hope that it is abundantly clear to Hyatt and Hyatt GP management, that two can play the "nickel and dime" game.

SethLevy

Sometimes Hyatt's customer service department is hit or miss. I recently had a customer service rep tell me she could not even tell me whether a hotel had FFN avaialbility until I gave her my GP account number and answered security questions. I hung-up on her and called back and the next agent answered my question without the drama.

Simply put, some people are just plain stupid and this includes some of hyatt's employees and managers. I suspect had you simply introduced these agents to the dial tone and called back, you would have received a more complete and accurate answer to your question.

NJUPINTHEAIR

Thanks Seth. I did expect more from the Manager, however, and that is why I asked to speak to her.

Now, I have not only publicized herein, but have sent it to the President of Hyatt Consumer Affairs and the Director of the Gold Passport program. Unfortunately, I was informed that Ms. Karen Smith was not in today.

I specifically indicated that I truly hoped that I would not have to further publicize this in other forums.

Mary2e

I can't be 100% sure, but I would swear we got points for spa charges in
Maui and Orlando. The beauty salon charges in Orlando were not eligible, but I believe the spa was.

I will look at my hotel bill tonight and let you know.

Mary

787

As always a very thorough post NJ. Considering the prices at Beaver Creek spa I had to wonder if you spent more time composing it, than your wife spent in the spa.

This is obviously a very uninformed statement. My wife and I have always gotten points at Hyatt spas, and in fact if I knew a resort spa would not incur any points I would be inclined to patronize other local spa’s, since they are normally a better value. I have had a few instances when I found out after the fact that a restaurant was a contracted service. IMO contracted services at Hyatt’s should be clearly identified.

NJUPINTHEAIR

Thank you all for your comments!

Although I have yet to find the applicable receipt, as yet, I did find receipts for 2 of my prior stays at the Bonita Springs property and in each instance we received points for the Stillwater Spa.

In addition, on the receipt for the Kauai property, we received points for the Anara spa.

Also, I came across the $145.00 Dinner at the Lone Eagle Grill at the Tahoe resort, and the brunch bill for $120.00 at the Terrace restaurant at the Park Hyatt Stanhope -- all now imperiled by a poorly trained Hyatt GP "Manager."

I would be very interested in what other spas do or do not provide Hyatt GP points and, of course, I will let you know just what and how my Park Hyatt Beaver Creek receipt for the Allegria spa is denoted.

In addition, I will keep you abreast of whether or not I am contacted by GP management, and also whether or not I will feel compelled to start circulating this post among the various travel troubleshooters who inhabit newpaper, magazine and internet websites.

Nothing can ruin an excellent program more than uninformed and improperly trained staff.

Thanks again for your comments.

I should add one additional point. Until further notice, my wife and I simply will utilize the spas at Marriott/Renaissance resorts for on each and every occassion we have indulged in their services, we always have received Marriott Rewards points for such services, no questions asked.

Penny wise and pound foolish, IMHO.

Bondiboy

Your post has prompted me to register after several years of lurking.

I wish you success, because if you are successful in your arguments, then, based upon the same logic (no warnings that the charges are not eligible for GP points etc.) then Hyatt will be obliges to give me retro-cred for about 10 years of car parking/garage charges, in-house movies, shop purchases, etc.

I shall be watching the outcome of your claim with baited breath.

NJUPINTHEAIR

Well, I am glad that you joined the community, but I hate to burst your bubble in that it is common knowledge that parking/garage fees may or may not be considered as charges.

On the other hand, I think that you have a good argument re in-house-movies. These things should be clearly designated in the T & C. Shop purchases are dicey, as I generally understand them to be outside vendors... however, Marriott awards points for their gift shops, so this should likewise be covered by GP points. Other high end shop, however, I do not agree with unless it is clearly indicated, or you ask.

However with respect to spa charges, which my experience and the post of those above, and I bet others, indicates that these are charges that one receives GP points for, and it may be that the Beaver Creek is in the minority. In that case, I believe the onus is on the GP program and/or the hotel to clearly indicate that points will not be awarded, inasmuch as the experience of a number of us demonstrates that such services do earn GP points and since the applicable subpararagraph gives no hint, at all, that such services would not earn GP points, the failure to award same is, IMHO, squarely the responsibility of those actors to inform you of this case before you purchase these services.

Football Fan

From reading the part you quoted, it appears movies are excluded.

NJUPINTHEAIR

Attorney 28 is right Bondi Boy, you are SOL on that one.

gregorygrady

I think you have a valid complaint as this is the one thing that bothers me about the GP program. You don't know what will get you points. When I buy a $150 meal in a Hyatt, I want to get my ~1000 GP points for that meal. I take that into account when deciding to eat there. If not, I'm sure I could go down the street and get a nice $50 meal somewhere else. Likewise, I spent ~$500 early this year at Hyatt Maui on activities. I could have probably signed up for those same activities in Lahaina for half the price, but I figured I'd be getting points for it and it was convenient, so I bought at inflated prices through Hyatt. And of course, no points.
Why can't Hyatt just not allow you to charge it to your room if it will not garner you points? That's not too difficult. I don't understand this. We all have credit cards that we can charge to. And too be so chinsey to not give points for parking and in-room movies, what's the deal? It's an extra 50 points they'd have to give me for parking. That's like 50 cents, will that break the bank for them? I know it won't because other times I have called up and some nice C.S. agent has noticed that I didn't get a GP2000 bonus credited to my account and they just apply it. That's like 40X as many points as a silly in-room movie that I was given. So I don't know what the deal is, but I agree that it is quite annoying that you don't know until several days after you check out whether or not you get points for various things you bought during your stay. BTW, I agree with the other poster, just call Hyatt GP back right now and you'll probably get a nice agent who will credit your account immediately with the points.

NJUPINTHEAIR

Amen to that brother Gregory! As I noted, penny wise and pound foolish. And, I don't disagree with the call back option; however, this is a Manager of the GP program for heaven's sake.

If anyone had the authority to award the GP points as a courtesy, she had, and yet, she was firm on only awarding them if they were not followed by an asterisk!

That is why I specifically asked her if she was sure she wanted to take this tack and that I was going to contact various individuals in the corporate structure, as well as report this whole thing on FT. She could have cared less. So be it.

Until I hear otherwise and am adequately compensated for the troubles -- they should be glad that my billable hour is far less than my wife's!! -- we will refrain from racking up large incidental charges at Hyatt.

Hello nickel, hello dime! I will be getting alot of use out of you guys for the forseeable future.

gregorygrady

Nope, only until 3/1/05.

NJUPINTHEAIR

Nope. I meant that, as we incur these sort of charges on paid stays, as well, not just on FFNs/points stays.

gregorygrady

Ahhh, now I understand. Just watch out and don't let this strategy backfire on you for award stays before 3/1/05. Like I said above, since I only received 16 GP Points for ~$500 in charges when I went to Maui in March, I decided to do the same thing as you propose when I returned to Hyatt Maui in June. I decided not to spend a penny there because they obviously didn't appreicate my spending on luau's, sunset cruises, etc. So I spent only a minimal $20 on valet parking and giftshop charges in June in order to get stay and FFN credit. Unfortunately it came back and bit me in the a$$ because they didn't give me stay/FFN credit, turns out both of those were "Ineligible Charges" as Karen would say.

So to learn a valuable lesson from my mistake, during this next FFN promo, first thing when you set your foot in the door on an AWARD stay, WALK OVER TO THAT PHONE, PICK IT UP, AND DIAL 411 AND ASK FOR THE NUMBER OF THE NEAREST PIZZA HUT!!!