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WoH 2023 Category Changes to Take Effect on Mar 28

WoH 2023 Category Changes to Take Effect on Mar 28

Old Mar 4, 23, 9:09 am
  #136  
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Hilton was already the Delta SkyMiles of the hotel loyalty program world when it came to devaluing the points and the program even before the Hilton Aspire card. The Hilton Aspire card didn’t worsen a devaluation trend that Hilton was already driving hard, even as it does make for hamsters on the hamster wheel and all that it means.

Hilton Diamond was so week for so long that being Hilton Gold was just about as good as Diamond for most of my time on FT. If the Aspire came with further narrowing the gap between Hilton Gold and Diamond status, then I must have missed that.

Originally Posted by UA-NYC
Does not compute. FNA availability = points availability.

the whole goal of a 1-4 cert is precisely to redeem for $200+ - not $75.
1. Standard rooms available for points redemption ≠ FNA availability.

Standard room availability for Cat 1-4 FNA is more restricted than standard room availability for points at Category 1-4 properties.

2. Published rate of $200 per standard room night at a Hyatt hotel probably mean lower than $75 cost per standard room night booked using Cat 1-4 cents.

Cost refers to the money cost that Hyatt faces when it’s Hyatt — not the guest — being charged money for rooms booked using loyalty program redemption instruments.

Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 4, 23 at 9:20 am
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Old Mar 4, 23, 9:11 am
  #137  
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Originally Posted by craigthemif
This is why we can't have nice things...

Marriott "lets" you add points so that they are free to charge more points. Everybody loses out. (except Marriott)

Instead of people complaining about "I can't spend Cat 1-4 certificates usefully", how's about a little perspective. A $95 annual fee shouldn't get you $500 room nights in Manhattan. It does get you hundreds of hotels costing $200-300...

But if Chase want to sell credit cards based on cardholders getting a free night in New York, then they should negotiate that kind of deal with Hyatt...
Agree fully
I’ve brought this up in this forum that Hyatt should do the same allowing folks to add points to their cat 1-4 certificates like IHG and Marriott do.Oddly I was subjected to angry upset comments like Marriott sucks and Hyatt should never copy them One could debate that Hyatt now has the worst annual free credit card night out of all the major programs.

IMO Hyatt is in crisis with what they have put out with these devaluations because they don’t make enough sense systemwide
Some of their only hope especially when demand will eventually cool off is to refresh / improve the program.It’s had a material affect on my business as much as I prefer Hyatts customer service.
Sadly many of us have not only witnessed the devaluation of point awards @ Hyatt but insulting suite downgrades ,lesser breakfast benefits and the gaming of standard room awards by select hotels with Hyatt doing near nothing to eliminate the business behavior.

Have not seen any material improvement since Jeff Zidell left Hyatts program and he at least personally interacted and engaged with members to hear the voice of the customer.All that said devaluations aside IHG has done the best job of refreshing their program
As I now see Hyatt currency highly compromised or less desirable I will spend less on their credit card and move toward cash back credit cards and go stronger where I still see better experiences and value with stronger currency.So cherry pick.I’m glad I had the most fun over these last 20 years plus while the going was real good 👍
All that said there will always be some of the hotels who still shine in and out of program offering both fair value and a solid experience
I’ll be holding onto those keepers

Last edited by 777 global mile hound; Mar 4, 23 at 9:26 am
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Old Mar 4, 23, 9:24 am
  #138  
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Insulting suite downgrades and lesser breakfast benefits has been way less of an issue with Hyatt than with the other major hotel loyalty programs. Suites and breakfast benefits are strongpoints of Hyatt’s program for those eligible for such benefits.

The gaming of standard room awards by select hotels at Hyatt is walking a course already followed by other major hotel loyalty programs in the run up to their neutering the concept of published hotel award categories and fixed award pricing. But even with that, these 2023 Hyatt devaluations on top of the devaluation from Hyatt’s three tier pricing per category are far more of an issue than the gaming of standard room availability has been with Hyatt.
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Old Mar 4, 23, 12:01 pm
  #139  
 
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Originally Posted by JetAway
I would like to see Hyatt offset this devaluation nonsense with a high dollar, high value credit card. Somewhat like the AmEx Hilton Aspire (which I have and like). $500-$600 annual fee with Globalist status. Yes, I can hear the cries of "it will devalue Globalist and open the gates." But someone willing to spend $600 on a Hyatt branded credit card should be the type of Globalist Hyatt would value.
So what Im hearing is basically anyone willing to spend $600 should be Globalist which just doesnt sound rightat all.


This would be basically anyone with an upcoming vacation trip. Sign up a month before your trip and get that weeklong vacation booking for the family from two queens up to a suite saving thousands. Then there will be those who literally dont travel at all and just get it just so they can do Guest of Honor bookings for their kids, relatives, etc.

Theres already avenues to accelerated Globalist, its exceedingly idiotic to have a direct way just by paying an annual fee.

Its just opening the floodgates and would be very destructive to Hyatt, to Hotel Operators, and to Hyatt loyalists.

The reason its fine for Hilton is there are no real benefits to being a Diamond its been watered down to nothing. I stayed recently at a DoubleTree they had a Junior Suite available which I confirmed prior to arrival and was told I would receive it if it was available at check in. When I checked in they again confirmed it was available and said Id receive it. Then they gave me the keys to a 1 King Bed on the Executive Floor, where the Executive Lounge wasnt even open and hadnt been open in 2 years. I went down and asked, the agent said while yes the Junior Suite is available and yes the program benefits do allow that upgrade you will not be getting it because its a $200 price difference. I even called CS to inquire they agreed I should receive the upgrade but they cannot force the property to process the upgrade. Whereas with Hyatt they have a good system and can work with hotels on behalf of Globalists to ensure they receive their earned benefits.

After that I decided just to let Diamond status die out as its abundantly evident that since too many people have Diamond the benefits have been watered down to nothing. I earned Diamond status I didnt get it from a Credit Card so it was a bit of a punch to the gut so to speak.

So in short no Hyatt should never create a credit card that gives automatic Globalist status for a fee.

In case you didnt know Hyatt does offer a status match all the way to Globalist through AA. Its from their ConciergeKey level members which IIRC are people who spend 50k a year with AA. Hyatt has decided that these will be the people who get automatic Globalist status, and it takes almost 100x as much spend as the suggested $600 Annual Fee Card. Though sadly theres no direct reciprocity with AA anymore.
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Last edited by Matt4200; Mar 4, 23 at 12:14 pm
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Old Mar 4, 23, 12:25 pm
  #140  
 
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Ever since Hilton came out with the Aspire card, elite recognition at properties has been very poor that I no longer stay at Hiltons.

I am glad Hyatt makes it difficult to earn Globalist status, but the mattress runs at MGM properties is making it easy as well
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Old Mar 4, 23, 12:51 pm
  #141  
 
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Originally Posted by BaconSF
Ever since Hilton came out with the Aspire card, elite recognition at properties has been very poor that I no longer stay at Hiltons.

I am glad Hyatt makes it difficult to earn Globalist status, but the mattress runs at MGM properties is making it easy as well
I feel like MGM MRs can make it easier, but certainly not easy as you still need to get all the way to 60. I think many Globalists dont even stay with MGM at all, and the majority that do only do so for less than 10 nights a year.

Someone looking to make Globalist starting at 0 would heavily avoid MGM due to the hefty resort fees which wouldnt be waived until Explorist status, even then many people still have nights that they fight for 1-2 months to get credited from MGM.

You could also argue any high net worth people could get Globalist status easily with Hyatt. It requires no stays and only 140k spent on the WOH credit Card. Sadly Ive seen people spend this much just on shoes and apparel. Meaning that one purchase could earn them Globalist and a good chunk of points.

So yeah theres many avenues which each attract a different type of person which is good as it draws in more people.
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Old Mar 4, 23, 1:11 pm
  #142  
 
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[QUOTE=Matt4200;35060895]It’s just opening the floodgates and would be very destructive to Hyatt, to Hotel Operators, and to Hyatt loyalists. (as quoted).

No, it would absolutely not open the floodgates (which seems to be a popular meme here on FT). Most people would not apply for, and pay for, an expensive hotel credit card just to get a free breakfast and the possibility of an upgrade.
And I have had great luck with my Hilton Aspire Diamond status, especially in Europe. Nice upgrades (twice to suites), excellent executive lounges, welcoming amenity, etc.
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Old Mar 4, 23, 1:24 pm
  #143  
 
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[QUOTE=JetAway;35061075]
Originally Posted by Matt4200
Its just opening the floodgates and would be very destructive to Hyatt, to Hotel Operators, and to Hyatt loyalists. (as quoted).

No, it would absolutely not open the floodgates (which seems to be a popular meme here on FT). Most people would not apply for, and pay for, an expensive hotel credit card just to get a free breakfast and the possibility of an upgrade.
And I have had great luck with my Hilton Aspire Diamond status, especially in Europe. Nice upgrades (twice to suites), excellent executive lounges, welcoming amenity, etc.
Basically anyone who has a vacation planned for their family (which is tens of thousands of people) would see it apply pay the fee and boom Globalist. Breakfast alone would pay off the fee on that one vacation. Average Breakfast cost per person in destinations like Hawaii - Maui is $40 pp for a family of 4 thats $160 + gratuity $190 a day, average stay length in Hawaii is 5 days thats ~$1,000. Then theres the upgrade value thats anywhere from $200-$1,000 per night difference amounting to thousands saved on one single trip alone.

Thats just one example, $600 is literally nothing to be able to hold Globalist status and the benefits conferred. Hyatt definitely took note of this once the Globalist Lite rush came in, promptly closed that door and pushed them out saying good riddance.

Hiltons program is literally trash I would much rather hold elite status with IHG which is seriously saying something. Their points are worthless, promos arent good, and elite recognition is horrible in the US.
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Old Mar 4, 23, 3:20 pm
  #144  
 
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Originally Posted by 777 global mile hound
Have not seen any material improvement since Jeff Zidell left Hyatts program and he at least personally interacted and engaged with members to hear the voice of the customer.All that said devaluations aside IHG has done the best job of refreshing their program
Interesting bit on IHG, since it's never occurred to me to explore their program. Since you've got street credit (with me anyway), I'll take it as a cue to look into their program.
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Old Mar 4, 23, 3:28 pm
  #145  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti
Interesting bit on IHG, since it's never occurred to me to explore their program. Since you've got street credit (with me anyway), I'll take it as a cue to look into their program.
yeah, status used to mean nothing for IHG, but after the refresh they have milestone awards similar to Hyatt.

got an comp upgrade + free breakfast + late checkout at intercontinental Phuket with diamond elite status
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Old Mar 4, 23, 3:39 pm
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Matt4200
I feel like MGM MR’s can make it easier, but certainly not easy as you still need to get all the way to 60. ...
Someone looking to make Globalist starting at 0 would heavily avoid MGM due to the hefty resort fees which wouldn’t be waived until Explorist status, even then many people still have nights that they fight for 1-2 months to get credited from MGM.
Seems to me that some MGM properties in LAS, even with resort fee, are still significantly cheaper than Hyatt's own properties. E.g. early April, Excalibur wants $37 / night + $35 resort fee. The Hyatt Place down the road is $152. So if I wanted to mattress-run part of the way to Globalist, I would probably do it at the Excalibur. Fortunately I am not really motivated enough to work my way to Globalist. I would, however, be interested in a more useful credit card (doesn't necessarily have to give outright Globalist status, but perhaps enough night credit to start half-way to the finish line).

Originally Posted by Matt4200
Then there will be those who literally don’t travel at all and just get it just so they can do Guest of Honor bookings for their kids, relatives, etc.
Well, since you need certs or tons of points to make GoH bookings, those non-travelers would then have to charge up a storm on their shiny new card. And as you point out in another post, that's already a way to get Globalist status, so not really a new concern:

Originally Posted by Matt4200
You could also argue any high net worth people could get Globalist status easily with Hyatt. It requires no stays and only 140k spent on the WOH credit Card. Sadly I’ve seen people spend this much just on shoes and apparel. Meaning that one purchase could earn them Globalist and a good chunk of points.
Looks like my taste of shoes and clothes doesn't qualify me for Globalist.
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Last edited by notquiteaff; Mar 4, 23 at 3:55 pm
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Old Mar 4, 23, 3:53 pm
  #147  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
1. Standard rooms available for points redemption ≠ FNA availability.

Standard room availability for Cat 1-4 FNA is more restricted than standard room availability for points at Category 1-4 properties.
Can you point to a single live example of this at this moment to make your case?

At the CAA (a popular 1-4 cert destination until this change due to property and room rates) for example, I have never, ever seen this the case, with many DPs past few years. Zero difference.
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Old Mar 4, 23, 3:56 pm
  #148  
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Originally Posted by BaconSF
I am glad Hyatt makes it difficult to earn Globalist status, but the mattress runs at MGM properties is making it easy as well
MGM easier for sure, but this is likely a very niche behavior by a drop in the bucket of us FTer types. Unless you live in Vegas there are high costs to making that happen.

A CC on the other hand is incredibly easy.
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Old Mar 4, 23, 6:27 pm
  #149  
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Hilton Diamond was already weak for benefits at most properties in North America even well before the Aspire card came out.

When the major US loyalty programs in the travel space devalue their status benefits for most of their elite status customers, then that is when they may become more likely to push higher fee bank card products selling upper end elite tier status. Given how little most Hyatt elites get out of being Discoverist and Explorist and the devaluation of the points since the introduction of the three tier award pricing per hotel category, Hyatt is probably closer to following the path of Hilton and Marriott today than it was in 2019 in terms of yet another Hyatt bank card product.

Originally Posted by UA-NYC
Can you point to a single live example of this at this moment to make your case?
Of course, I can and will this time. Take the closest Hyatt brand property to where I am Sunday night before flying out Monday:

Malmo, Story Hotel, March 5-6 (2023). Available for 5k points for the night, but not available for the Cat 1-4 FNA.

Last month, ran into many such situations across various Hyatt properties — in some cases even for nights where the point rates were as low as 3500 per night. And FNA availability being worse than points availability is not new to this year or even last year.

Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 4, 23 at 6:38 pm
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Old Mar 4, 23, 8:44 pm
  #150  
 
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Originally Posted by 777 global mile hound
Agree fully
Ive brought this up in this forum that Hyatt should do the same allowing folks to add points to their cat 1-4 certificates like IHG and Marriott do.Oddly I was subjected to angry upset comments like Marriott sucks and Hyatt should never copy them One could debate that Hyatt now has the worst annual free credit card night out of all the major programs.

IMO Hyatt is in crisis with what they have put out with these devaluations because they dont make enough sense systemwide
Some of their only hope especially when demand will eventually cool off is to refresh / improve the program.Its had a material affect on my business as much as I prefer Hyatts customer service.
Sadly many of us have not only witnessed the devaluation of point awards @ Hyatt but insulting suite downgrades ,lesser breakfast benefits and the gaming of standard room awards by select hotels with Hyatt doing near nothing to eliminate the business behavior.

Have not seen any material improvement since Jeff Zidell left Hyatts program and he at least personally interacted and engaged with members to hear the voice of the customer.All that said devaluations aside IHG has done the best job of refreshing their program
As I now see Hyatt currency highly compromised or less desirable I will spend less on their credit card and move toward cash back credit cards and go stronger where I still see better experiences and value with stronger currency.So cherry pick.Im glad I had the most fun over these last 20 years plus while the going was real good 👍
All that said there will always be some of the hotels who still shine in and out of program offering both fair value and a solid experience
Ill be holding onto those keepers
when does hyatt do suite down grades never heard that?
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