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Is WOH losing control to enforce hotels to make standard redemption rooms available?

Is WOH losing control to enforce hotels to make standard redemption rooms available?

Old Jun 1, 22, 12:26 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by churning View Post
Andaz San Diego is the F'ing worst with these games. They won't even let you pay CASH to book a single damn Saturday night many weekends. That being said, I love the property and consider it a battle of wits to get what I want with points. I generally win in the end.

But it is freaking annoying. Marriott doesn't let its properties play these stupid games. This is a legitimate complaint to have against Hyatt and something that I think Hyatt needs to nip in the butt before it pisses more and more people off. They don't have the footprint to fall back on.
There are all kinds of Marriotts that have two night minimum stays over weekends. Marriott also formally got rid of the old Starwood "if there is a base room for cash you can book it for points." Any Marriott just needs to make *one* standard room available for points, regardless of how many standard rooms there are, and the hotel is compliant with Bonvoy redemption availability rules. Marriott doesn't need to play availability "games" since they can (and many hotels do) use capacity controls.

Originally Posted by myperks View Post
Does Ventana Big Sur fall under “playing with availability” or is it just that great of a property?
My experience with the Ventana is they are quite generous with elite benefits and are happy to make standard rooms (and premium rooms) available on points...it's just a very small hotel with high demand.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 12:49 am
  #17  
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The old SPG rule had some hotels playing games with room categories, so that there would only be a couple base level rooms (tiny single rooms in some properties before SPG said that rooms for two people were required to be included) when the hotel had seemingly similar but higher categories that transacted for the same cash rates.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 12:50 am
  #18  
 
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Hilton is far worse with all the high end hotels have extremely narrow definitions of standard room, for example Waldorf Beverly Hills only has AdA kings, no regular kings available as standard.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 12:51 am
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by boolean64 View Post
My experience with the Ventana is they are quite generous with elite benefits and are happy to make standard rooms (and premium rooms) available on points...it's just a very small hotel with high demand.
by this logic, Andaz Maui and Park Hyatt Aviara and others are in high demand as well. as for elite benefits, seems like the ones mentioned are all quite fairly good EXCEPT FOR MAYBE the Centric Waikiki with still no breakfast service.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 6:11 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by 777 global mile hound View Post
not up to date interested to learn more
I’m relatively inexperienced with Accor myself but they seem to have no blackout or capacity restrictions for putting points toward award stays even during special event time frames and you can pay as much or as little of your stay under a qualifying rate with points as long as it’s in 20 Euro or equivalent in local currency chunks.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 6:16 am
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by 777 global mile hound View Post
If a hotel has the blessing of Hyatt to implement its own rules I’d at least
like to see disclosure when I go to book like we reserve the right to limit award bookings to a 2 or 3 night min
of course it’s a double standard as they wont do it on a revenue room
But to not disclose is poor form.I had a Hyatt Conceirge look into this and they too were stumped they couldn’t book a room for an entire year
I definitely wouldn’t expect any disclosure. It’s one of those things that Hyatt has for people “in the know”.

I too was befuddled as I couldn’t seem to find even a single day available at HC Waikiki. I called Hyatt and was told “they’re just a really busy property”. Which makes no sense even in the lowest season you’d expect 10-20 days available scattered about. So I called back a week later spoke to a new agent and he was able to find 1 single day available a random day in October. It was at this point I reached out directly to the hotel’s GM who informed me of the minimum stay policy.

I needed a 1 night because I was using a Cat 1-4 Cert and the Pay My Way Feature hadn’t been created yet.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 10:26 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by myperks View Post
by this logic, Andaz Maui and Park Hyatt Aviara and others are in high demand as well. as for elite benefits, seems like the ones mentioned are all quite fairly good EXCEPT FOR MAYBE the Centric Waikiki with still no breakfast service.
I disagree. I'm very familiar with booking at both the Ventana and the Andaz Maui. Andaz Maui not only limits room categories but also plays games about only being available if you book exactly 3 days or 8 days or 10 days whereas cash stays can book any length of stay. And they basically categorize the rooms at the end of the hallway as "standard" but the rooms one room in as non-standard. They have figured out how to go above and beyond in gaming the system.

Ventana has base rooms and base rooms with fireplaces. At least the rooms are materially different. And I have personally booked a room with fireplace on points so they are sometimes more liberal with inventory than they have to be. And while they may have two day minimums on the weekends, that is more of their policy overall than just their points strategy. They are also way more generous with suite availability on points and treat globalists quite well on more than standard suite upgrades at checkin.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 10:39 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by boolean64 View Post
I disagree. I'm very familiar with booking at both the Ventana and the Andaz Maui. Andaz Maui not only limits room categories but also plays games about only being available if you book exactly 3 days or 8 days or 10 days whereas cash stays can book any length of stay. And they basically categorize the rooms at the end of the hallway as "standard" but the rooms one room in as non-standard. They have figured out how to go above and beyond in gaming the system.

Ventana has base rooms and base rooms with fireplaces. At least the rooms are materially different. And I have personally booked a room with fireplace on points so they are sometimes more liberal with inventory than they have to be. And while they may have two day minimums on the weekends, that is more of their policy overall than just their points strategy. They are also way more generous with suite availability on points and treat globalists quite well on more than standard suite upgrades at checkin.
Ventana being a Cat 8 just isn’t that desirable, their cash rates are insanely inflated. What was it like a year ago cash rates were $600-$1,000 now they’re about triple that because they provide some meals that honestly don’t cost them that much? It’s a huge leap from category 7 to category 8 (10k points vs. Jumping Cat 6 to Cat 7 only 5k points), on top of that the new Peak pricing making it 45k points half the year.

Ventana definitely isn’t Miraval quality though with their cash rates they could try to fool many people.

As for Andaz Maui it’s a very large property I see no need to limit award availability especially as they take advantage of category changes and peak pricing. But they see that strategy working because if you limit the supply of something it suddenly because more desirable and people are willing to pay more for it.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 10:54 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by Matt4200 View Post
Ventana being a Cat 8 just isn’t that desirable, their cash rates are insanely inflated. What was it like a year ago cash rates were $600-$1,000 now they’re about triple that because they provide some meals that honestly don’t cost them that much? It’s a huge leap from category 7 to category 8 (10k points vs. Jumping Cat 6 to Cat 7 only 5k points), on top of that the new Peak pricing making it 45k points half the year.

Ventana definitely isn’t Miraval quality though with their cash rates they could try to fool many people.

As for Andaz Maui it’s a very large property I see no need to limit award availability especially as they take advantage of category changes and peak pricing. But they see that strategy working because if you limit the supply of something it suddenly because more desirable and people are willing to pay more for it.
Agree with all of this. Off topic but the cash prices are part of the craziness of the Bay Area right now. Same thing with restaurants. They are just throwing out stupid numbers for prix fixe and seeing if they can get away with it. And with all the money sloshing around, they tend to get away with it...as does the Ventana.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 11:28 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by boolean64 View Post
I disagree. I'm very familiar with booking at both the Ventana and the Andaz Maui. Andaz Maui not only limits room categories but also plays games about only being available if you book exactly 3 days or 8 days or 10 days whereas cash stays can book any length of stay. And they basically categorize the rooms at the end of the hallway as "standard" but the rooms one room in as non-standard. They have figured out how to go above and beyond in gaming the system.

Ventana has base rooms and base rooms with fireplaces. At least the rooms are materially different. And I have personally booked a room with fireplace on points so they are sometimes more liberal with inventory than they have to be. And while they may have two day minimums on the weekends, that is more of their policy overall than just their points strategy. They are also way more generous with suite availability on points and treat globalists quite well on more than standard suite upgrades at checkin.
Base rooms at Ventana are booked into King Beds now, as opposed to previously in King Beds with Fireplace or King Beds with fireplace ADA. They don’t even have an ADA standard room anymore. The base rooms and one up with fireplace is essentially the same room (fireplace at Ventana and “view” at Andaz Maui)(plus it’s my understanding that all rooms at Ventana have fireplaces). So that to me would fall under “reclassification.” Upgrading globalists to premium suites is not an award blocking strategy, it’s more of a revenue strategy to increase occupancy % from awards. Not a lot of people will pay $3k for their premium suites. However at Andaz Maui, it’s priced so it’s more “affordable” for the general pop (can’t believe I’m saying $750+ is “affordable” but it is what it is).

is Andaz Maui more egregious than Ventana? Probably. But Ventana is doing exactly the same. Some sort of minimum stay, can’t do single night weekends… etc.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 11:43 am
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by myperks View Post

is Andaz Maui more egregious than Ventana? Probably. But Ventana is doing exactly the same. Some sort of minimum stay, can’t do single night weekends… etc.
There is a very big difference between having an overall policy of two night minimums on weekends for both cash and point stays (which many many hotels in the general monterey/carmel area have not to mention napa) and ONLY being able to book 3 nights or 8 nights and nothing in between for points stays but not applying the same restrictions for cash stays. This minimum night gaming is the main driver of difficulty in booking the andaz maui, especially for a place where people tend to want to stay more than 3 nights but can't afford to stay 8 nights.

Also, Ventana has been booking into King Beds since they first re-opened as an Alila. I booked a points stay into a regular king bed very shortly after it opened.

Could Ventana be more liberal in points availability for their base rooms with fireplace? Probably. But the two properties are absolutely NOT engaging in the exact same practices.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 12:09 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by boolean64 View Post
There is a very big difference between having an overall policy of two night minimums on weekends for both cash and point stays (which many many hotels in the general monterey/carmel area have not to mention napa) and ONLY being able to book 3 nights or 8 nights and nothing in between for points stays but not applying the same restrictions for cash stays. This minimum night gaming is the main driver of difficulty in booking the andaz maui, especially for a place where people tend to want to stay more than 3 nights but can't afford to stay 8 nights.

Also, Ventana has been booking into King Beds since they first re-opened as an Alila. I booked a points stay into a regular king bed very shortly after it opened.

Could Ventana be more liberal in points availability for their base rooms with fireplace? Probably. But the two properties are absolutely NOT engaging in the exact same practices.
I can book single night Andaz Maui right now for a few dates in 2022 including one Saturday in Nov. When I add a second night, the “standard” room becomes not available for cash or award…

I guess we can both be in agreement the number of allocated standard rooms for standard redemption affects how we perceive the property playing games with awards. Lots of other factors that was can just speculate on including the millions of other members wanting the same room.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 2:03 pm
  #28  
 
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Seems like this is strongly biased towards southern California and Hawaii properties. Am I reading this right?

BTW -- I think just about all hotels in my hometown (a college town) require 2 nights be booked for any football weekend (even on cash rates). That includes Bonvoy and Hilton properties (but no Hyatts). So, if hotel owners are accustomed to this, can Hyatt 'dictate' this without peaving them off?

Last edited by MarkOK; Jun 1, 22 at 2:10 pm
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Old Jun 1, 22, 3:14 pm
  #29  
 
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I do think these award games end up acting as a devaluation of the program, and yet another reason to use points fast and not hold them.

I should also say that based on what (little) I know of reimbursements for award rooms, I absolutely see why these hotels attempt to limit their award stays. I'd further guess that guests on award stays spend less than guests on paid stays (largely due to that spending fallacy of 'another $300 isn't a big deal if we're already spending $1000/night').

And why should Hyatt attempt to change anything? They don't seem to be losing customers in a meaningful way here and they do need to keep these hotels happy.
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Old Jun 1, 22, 5:48 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by MarkOK View Post
Seems like this is strongly biased towards southern California and Hawaii properties. Am I reading this right?

BTW -- I think just about all hotels in my hometown (a college town) require 2 nights be booked for any football weekend (even on cash rates). That includes Bonvoy and Hilton properties (but no Hyatts). So, if hotel owners are accustomed to this, can Hyatt 'dictate' this without peaving them off?
Hyatt sets the rules in the end not owners.During Covid they relaxed rules
I do know many years ago Hilton made sure that they had full control over redemption so hotels had less chance of reallocating redemption space
So hotels weren’t gaming the availability any longer
I’m not certain if that’s still the case
Now a days they just charge a higher amount of points with so called premium rooms cough cough

Back in the day Hyatt could be sold out of revenue rooms yet award redemption rooms which were
set aside per each hotel separately
guests could book sold out hotels if the allotted space on points was still available
Really came in handy sometimes especially in New York

Hyatt needs transparency and to monitor the bad actors and weed them out one by one
It’s about long term damage and continued trust in the relationship
It’s costing them many thousands from myself alone as I cut back the amount of nights I’m staying
and make sure I’m spending in other programs more frequently to leave all my options open if the gaming continues,
There was a time historically when Hyatt was likely the most trustworthy of all the programs.
Hope they get a handle on this going forward.If not where does the cancer spread next? to which hotels?
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