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Serious Privacy violation at Grand Hyatt Jakarta - What to do?

Serious Privacy violation at Grand Hyatt Jakarta - What to do?

Old Mar 20, 2019, 5:59 pm
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by birdiedouble
I think you misinterpreted my message. The hotel (and their employees) are clearly responsible for their actions, however I think the OP needs to be more proactive here rather than relying on a conversation 15 months prior and FD agents who may or may not care (for a number if reasons) whether they respect her privacy. It's really not clear why this particular person is a "threat" to the OP and drawing a connection to a sexual assault is a stretch given what we know and don't know about this situation. A criminal assault is much different than being in a city with someone who "bothers" you for some unknown reason. I just think the OP needs to act differently if they can't rely on this particular property to respect their wishes and expectations. Sometimes you just need to move on rather than expect a situation to change after multiple attempts to change it.
If this was supposed to be your message, then it was very poorly stated. I mentioned the scenario of a guest being sexually assaulted after an FD agent improperly gave out keys to the guest's room to strangers who were not registered to the room because, appallingly, that exact scenario has occurred several times in recent years. 'Devious people found a way around the rules' in those occurrences - should the response really be that the victims should have been more proactive? Obviously no hotel can guarantee guest safety and security under all circumstances and against any threat, but that fact certainly does not relieve the hotel of the obligation to protect its paying guests. Policies and procedures are (or should be) in place and FD agents shouldn't be disclosing guest information to strangers any more than they should be handing out room keys to drunken strangers who aren't registered guests.

Originally Posted by LondonElite
There is no way to ensure the hotel will be able to promise complete anonymity. What should happen and what happens in practice are often very different. If it were really important to me to be fully incognito, I would book a different hotel and under a different name. I might wear a disguise. But expecting the hotel to be fully watertight with my identity is unrealistic.
As mentioned above, there is no way a hotel can ensure guest safety and security either - but that is not a good rationale for blaming the victim. There's always a line where anyone's expectations will be crossed (is it unrealistic to expect that FD agents not hand out keys to drunken strangers?), so while your expectations may be different, the simple reality is that topic property should have done a lot better in this situation.
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Old Mar 20, 2019, 6:48 pm
  #77  
 
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Conversation has being going around in circles for a while now. Making an attempt to summarize:

*OP is right to believe that his wishes for privacy were mishandled by the hotel.
*mitigating factor: OP could have been more proactive in double checking his wishes were on record, rather than relying on 15 month old instructions being remembered.


OP has 2 options now

1) You wish to keep using the hotel if possible and avoid hassle of switching loyalty.
Answers:
-write a clear complaimt to corporate stating what you expect in the future, demand guarantees.
-optionally, ask for compensation you deem appropriate.
-when staying in the future, double or triple check when checking in that your privacy is guaranteed. Demand written statement if possible. Use an alias if necessary.
If you are not happy with guarantees offered switch to 2)

2) switch loyalty to another hotel.
-do still make your demands very clear and obtain guarantees in writing if possible, each stay.
-optionally try to obtain compensation for hyatt in form of a partial refund or something that wont bind you to the hotel.

for extra peace of mind:
-test the hotels! Have a friend do a fake stalk and see what happens.
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Old Mar 20, 2019, 9:45 pm
  #78  
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This thread is one big strawman.

No one is asking anyone to shield anyone from anything, nor to guarantee safety. The expectation is just that the hotel not give out information about guests. This expectation should be standard, and should not require special instructions. It's just common sense.
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Old Mar 21, 2019, 12:03 pm
  #79  
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler
This thread is one big strawman.

No one is asking anyone to shield anyone from anything, nor to guarantee safety. The expectation is just that the hotel not give out information about guests. This expectation should be standard, and should not require special instructions. It's just common sense.
i disagree - far more people will be inconvenienced if hotels start refusing to provide common sense information.. calling to check if your family member, friend colleague etc already arrived is fairly normal if people do not have other means of communication.
Should hotels refuse to transfer phone calls to individual rooms too if specific guest name is requested?

Violation of privacy would be disclosing personal information - cc dob etc, perhaps disclosing actual room number - doesnt seem to be the case here.

if op wants to hide from someone i d suggest staying at another hotel that is not known to that undesirable contact.
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Old Mar 21, 2019, 3:52 pm
  #80  
 
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Originally Posted by LondonElite
I appreciate your situation, but to take a slightly different perspective, I don't think you can expect a hotel to be a shield for your problem with this person. Either it is serious or it isn't (and I'm not going to speculate beyond that). If it really is serious and you want to or have to stay in that hotel, then you should check in under a different name or come to an understanding with the hotel that you are logged as Mr X.
Let's make this about you for a moment. Lets say, for whatever reason, someone wants to do you harm. Could be a partner, a colleague, whatever. Do you want to wait until that person attacks you in the hotel lobby after calling around to figure out where you're staying, and THEN call the police after the fact? Or do you think, just perhaps, random strangers should not be able to get info about whether you're staying there or not before hand, making it just that much harder to do you harm?

I'm sorry, but you absolutely SHOULD expect at least that from the hotel you're staying at, and if they give out any information at all about you and someone shows up and does you harm, that hotel should absolutely be liable for significant damages in a lawsuit to follow.

All they have to do is simply always say "I'm sorry, we are not able to give out guest information" and that's that.
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Old Mar 21, 2019, 6:28 pm
  #81  
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Originally Posted by skywalkerLAX
Huh? You can very well expect a hotel to not give out ANY information related to a guest.

Usually when you call a hotel and ask for a guest name the only answer is: a) We don't have a guest with this name b) Mr. X isn't answering his phone.

Anything else is a serious problem and the OP should contact the General Manager of the property.
If sometimes one and sometimes the other, that's giving out information. Better: "I don't have access to that information. If you give me a message, I'll pass it on to someone who does, and if the person is actually staying here we'll forward the message."
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Old Mar 21, 2019, 7:33 pm
  #82  
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Originally Posted by azepine00
calling to check if your family member, friend colleague etc already arrived is fairly normal if people do not have other means of communication.
What? No it isn't.
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Old Mar 22, 2019, 12:14 am
  #83  
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Originally Posted by PTK346
With all due respect, at this point the tenor of the OPs continuing posts suggests to this reader that OP is looking for validation of a predetermined conclusion, rather than simply for others' expectations "about situations like this." The good thing about FT is that you will have plenty of supportive opinions to choose from!
I do like this, thank you.

Yes, after the first dozen or so posts, I did have my personal feeling on the situation validated. I wanted to make sure i was being reasonable to be upset, and also suggestions on escalation. I received that early, and otherwise have just been continuing the conversation.
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Old Mar 22, 2019, 12:20 am
  #84  
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Originally Posted by ehallison
I wonder if staying at a different hotel would even solve the OP's problem. If the stalker knows you will be attending these types of events and doesn't track you down at the Hyatt, then s/he will try other nearby hotels. Although another hotel might SAY they have better procedures in place to protect guests' privacy, as the OP has just discovered, you never know when an accidental privacy violation will occur.

Maybe AirBnb is the answer.
I don't know if it would have. I have no idea how many other hotels this person may have contacted, or been willing to contact. I do stay in other Jakarta hotels also, I just prefer the GH due to status.

Also, a few comments that OP (myself) should "fix my personal situation". It's not quite as simple as some of you think. If it was just a bad personal debt or annoying ex, it wouldn't be an issue.
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Old Mar 22, 2019, 12:38 am
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Jeff
Let's make this about you for a moment. Lets say, for whatever reason, someone wants to do you harm. Could be a partner, a colleague, whatever. Do you want to wait until that person attacks you in the hotel lobby after calling around to figure out where you're staying, and THEN call the police after the fact? Or do you think, just perhaps, random strangers should not be able to get info about whether you're staying there or not before hand, making it just that much harder to do you harm?

I'm sorry, but you absolutely SHOULD expect at least that from the hotel you're staying at, and if they give out any information at all about you and someone shows up and does you harm, that hotel should absolutely be liable for significant damages in a lawsuit to follow.

All they have to do is simply always say "I'm sorry, we are not able to give out guest information" and that's that.
I would never have an expectation that a hotel is a safe house in a witness protection sense. Yes, it should be the case that no personal information is given out, but this is designed for privacy and not for protection reasons. Its a hotel after all. The lawsuit thing will never work, of course, except possibly in the US.
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Old Mar 22, 2019, 12:43 am
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Originally Posted by sethb
If sometimes one and sometimes the other, that's giving out information. Better: "I don't have access to that information. If you give me a message, I'll pass it on to someone who does, and if the person is actually staying here we'll forward the message."
Nice, but Ive never experienced something so oblique in thousands of hotel stays.

Originally Posted by VegasGambler
What? No it isn't.
From experience at both normal business hotels and luxury properties around the world, I can tell you that this is exactly my experience. Could you let me know if my colleague Mr Pink has checked in yet? Usually results in yes, he checked in 20 minutes ago. This most recently happened at President Woodrow Wilson in Geneva.
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Old Mar 22, 2019, 5:14 am
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler
What? No it isn't.
Yes, it is.

Given the cost differential in making phone calls and other issues that could arise, calling up the hotel to make contact or get an update about a family members safe arrival to the hotel is entirely within the realm of normal. And if something goes wrong and the expected place of stay has no record of checking in the person, that may signify a problem and could help limit the scope of when and where something went wrong in such a way as to make a major difference in the safety/security of the traveler and/or in the ability of authorities to get to work about what went wrong and to get any perpetrators of say a crime.

If a female relative of mine is traveling to DEL by herself and planning to use typical tourist means of travel from the airport to a hotel, you can bet that Ill be wanting to be contacted by or make contact with such relative or be asking the hotel (at the very least) about whether or not the guest has checked in and to put me through on the phone if Ive not heard anything by or around an anticipated time of contact of sort with/from the relative.

Its also within the realm of normal in relation to business contacts trying to reach a business associate on a trip.

Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 22, 2019 at 5:21 am
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Old Mar 22, 2019, 12:24 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder

If a female relative of mine is traveling to DEL by herself and planning to use typical tourist means of travel from the airport to a hotel, you can bet that Ill be wanting to be contacted by or make contact with such relative or be asking the hotel (at the very least) about whether or not the guest has checked in and to put me through on the phone if Ive not heard anything by or around an anticipated time of contact of sort with/from the relative.
I'm sure you love your male relatives also, and you probably should call and check on them too since the majority of adult murder/kidnapping/robbery/etc. victims are male.
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Old Mar 23, 2019, 1:13 pm
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Originally Posted by HoustonConsultant
I'm sure you love your male relatives also, and you probably should call and check on them too since the majority of adult murder/kidnapping/robbery/etc. victims are male.
I do at times, but it depends on the destination and circumstances.

Adult female tourist traveling alone in India are at risk of what you mentioned no less risk than for adult male tourists traveling alone but also at greater risk of an additional crime than male adult tourists traveling alone there: rape. And I have zero doubt that India is more risky for women traveling alone than for men traveling alone.
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Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 23, 2019 at 1:22 pm
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Old Mar 24, 2019, 4:25 pm
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Originally Posted by AtomicLush
I am very confused by some of the responses on here. First of all, things like your name, arrival information, length of stay, etc. can all be considered personal information under certain data protection laws. Most of these laws require consent prior to disclosure of such personal info (or unless such disclosure is required to provide certain services that cannot be opted out of). The hotel's privacy policy can also come into play as well, see https://www.hyatt.com/info/privacy-policy Clearly giving out your personal info to a "troublesome person" or a stalker (or actually anyone else) is not within the hotel's disclosure rights without consent. You did not give such consent and therefore your privacy rights were violated. It's not about applying a "stealth mode" at the hotel - these are basic privacy rights. If Hyatt corporate does not take this seriously, ask to be escalated to their data privacy team to discuss the issue.
It's Jakarta, so laws would be specific to that country.
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