FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Hyatt | World of Hyatt (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hyatt-world-hyatt-418/)
-   -   Hyatt free night redemption in NYC out of whack? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hyatt-world-hyatt/1950501-hyatt-free-night-redemption-nyc-out-whack.html)

hotelfanatic Jan 11, 19 1:22 pm

Hyatt free night redemption in NYC out of whack?
 
I often use points to stay in NYC and begin to noticed how out of whack it is compared to Marriott.

Most Manhattan properties need at minimum 20K per night. Where as Marriott offers decent properties starting @ 25K. If you use 1:3 ratio, Hyatt is over charging IMHO.
For example, I love the Chelsea Hyatt House which charge 20K/night. Marriott is building a Moxy next door with opening date this Spring @ Cat 5 which is 35K Marriott points.
They also have a Moxy downtown at Cat 4 (25K).

Is it time for Hyatt to adjust NYC redemption rates to be on par with its competitors?

spgplat21 Jan 11, 19 2:55 pm


Originally Posted by hotelfanatic (Post 30642383)
I often use points to stay in NYC and begin to noticed how out of whack it is compared to Marriott.

Most Manhattan properties need at minimum 20K per night. Where as Marriott offers decent properties starting @ 25K. If you use 1:3 ratio, Hyatt is over charging IMHO.
For example, I love the Chelsea Hyatt House which charge 20K/night. Marriott is building a Moxy next door with opening date this Spring @ Cat 5 which is 35K Marriott points.
They also have a Moxy downtown at Cat 4 (25K).

Is it time for Hyatt to adjust NYC redemption rates to be on par with its competitors?

I agree they are currently high compared to Marriott, but after Marriott implements peak pricing and the new category later this year, they will be pretty close (especially at the higher end). Even with that though, Hyatt should have done a 5th night free a long time ago and 2 or 3 of the lower end NYC properties should still be Cat. 4 properties. I'm sure the Cat 1-4 CC nights were a huge part of those properties becoming Cat. 5, but the cash prices rarely, if ever, justify the Cat. 5 pricing.

craigthemif Jan 12, 19 10:21 am

So stay at the Marriotts.
There's no way that a Moxy or Residence Inn is of the standard of the Hyatts in Manhattan. Maybe the one Hyatt Place...

There's little doubt in my mind that the Marriotts in NYC will end up at peak pricing nearly year round and that category creep will take them higher before 2020...

Kacee Jan 12, 19 10:41 am


Originally Posted by craigthemif (Post 30645597)
So stay at the Marriotts.

Yep. Marriott has like 5x the options of Hyatt in NYC, and a wider pricing range. And Hyatt is a less attractive option in NYC since the Andazs have gone downhill. But the programs offer clear choices, and I don't see much point complaining that one is "too expensive." Moreover, based just on cash rates, the PHNYC will certainly be a better deal than SR or Chatawal once Marriott introduces Cat 8 and peak pricing (presumably in March).


Originally Posted by craigthemif (Post 30645597)
There's no way that a Moxy or Residence Inn is of the standard of the Hyatts in Manhattan. Maybe the one Hyatt Place...

Well I do think some of the RIs are comparable to, if not better than, Hyatt Herald Square, which is IMO a terrible value at 25k points. But that's no more ridiculous than, say the Edition at 60k Marriott.

I've got RI Downtown/Wall Street booked using a 25k point cert in January and really happy with that deal . . . .

hotelfanatic Jan 13, 19 3:31 pm

HHS at 25K/night - that is what I meant out of whack.

I understand the Moxy is a very good option and I will probably take that over the HH in Chelsea. The issue with me is I have almost 4X Hyatt pts than Marriott (normalized value at 3:1). So I try to use my Hyatt as much as I can.

Kacee Jan 13, 19 3:58 pm


Originally Posted by hotelfanatic (Post 30650356)
HHS at 25K/night - that is what I meant out of whack.

Yes that's just silly. Same with Andaz WS.


Originally Posted by hotelfanatic (Post 30650356)
The issue with me is I have almost 4X Hyatt pts than Marriott (normalized value at 3:1).

You mean 3 marriott for 1 hyatt? I think it's more like 1.75:1, particularly if you calculate in the airline transfer option.

jameswes Jan 13, 19 4:20 pm


Originally Posted by Kacee (Post 30650458)
You mean 3 marriott for 1 hyatt? I think it's more like 1.75:1, particularly if you calculate in the airline transfer option.

That at all to say that these are definitive values, but Marriott points dropped in value once the Travel Packages got severely devalued, and are likely to drop again once the new category and peak pricing is implemented.

TPG has had Hyatt pretty steady around 1.7-1.8 cents/point, and I feel like that's pretty fair. I typically get ~2, but still pretty close.
TPG has had Marriott at 0.9c. That feels close too.

So really roughly, 1 Hyatt points = 2 Marriott points. And I have a feeling that Marriott points are going to devalue slightly over the next few months.

Kacee Jan 13, 19 4:28 pm


Originally Posted by jameswes (Post 30650536)
TPG has had Hyatt pretty steady around 1.7-1.8 cents/point, and I feel like that's pretty fair. I typically get ~2, but still pretty close.

TPG also has Hilton at .6 cpp, so credibility of those valuations is an issue. I value Hyatt points at no more than 1.5 cents. Just look at the NYC redemptions. Sure you can get 2 cents, but there are an awful lot of redemptions out there at 1 cpp or less.

Regardless, I said 1.75:1, so you're quibbling over a 12.5% difference. And 1.75:1 is a lot closer to reality than the 3:1 OP cited.

hotelfanatic Jan 13, 19 9:47 pm

the ratio is very much dependent on the city. For example, I visit Raleigh often and stay at the Hyatt House Raleigh Brier Creek for 5K a night. The Aloft next door goes for 17.5K a night. I think the Aloft and HH are pretty comparable. So what does this all mean, I don't know :) I think the ratio between Hyatt and Marriott points is a lot more complex than a ratio of 1:1.75:, 1: 2 , or 1:3. Maybe we need to throw in a city or region to be more accurate. Is there a thread that does a good job on the analysis of comparing points between Marriott and Hyatt?

The reason I always though it was 1:3 was I saw Hyatt and SPG to be about the same.

Kacee Jan 13, 19 11:09 pm

It's an inexact calculation for sure.

Originally Posted by hotelfanatic (Post 30651427)
The reason I always though it was 1:3 was I saw Hyatt and SPG to be about the same.

Not the same. SPG (and now Marriott) got a valuation premium for the airline transfer with 25% bonus (20k SPG = 25k airline miles).

MarkOK Jan 14, 19 7:08 am

I agree that NYC properties are out of whack pt wise. For me, it stands out like a sore thumb in WoH's program. The pt redemption values (compared to cash rates) at most of those properties consistently appear to be 0.8-1.2 cents/pt, compared to 1.2-2.0+ cents/pt across Hyatt as a whole.

All of them in Manhattan (and Jersey city) should be a category less with the exception of the PH and Andaz 5th avenue. A couple of these could really be two categories less.

Let's compare to Paris. If Paris HR Etoile, which is just a handful of metro stops from just about any of the main attractions in Paris, can be a Cat 4 (which I think is appropriate), then GH NYC can be too.

Let's compare to Chicago that has centrally located Hyatts that range from Cat3 to cat6.

There is nothing 'special' about being in Manhattan, nor about the quality of hotels in Hyatt's portfolio there, nor about their cash rates, to justify putting practically every property at a cat 6


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 7:55 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.