Finally! Award nights will count towards elite status in 2018
Jan 1, 2018, 3:59 pm
#91
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Hyatt Discoverist, SEIBU PRINCE CLUB Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 20,432
I wonder if there is a case to be made from the credit card nights? For example, look at the section describing club lounge awards:
2. Redeeming Explorist Club Lounge Access Awards. Explorist Club Lounge Access Awards are valid for one (1) year from the date of issuance and must be redeemed in connection with reservations with a checkout date before the expiration of the Explorist Club Lounge Access Award. Explorist Club Lounge Access Awards can be tracked through the “My Awards” section of the Member’s account. A Member must redeem an Explorist Club Lounge Access Award prior to check-in for the underlying reservation. Explorist Club Lounge Access Awards are redeemable only at participating Hyatt hotels and resorts that have a Club lounge and are not valid at Hyatt Place, Hyatt House, Miraval, Hyatt Zilara, Hyatt Ziva, or Hyatt Residence Club hotels and resorts, or M life Resorts. Explorist Club Lounge Access Awards are valid on nights for which the Member has paid an Eligible Rate or has redeemed points for a standard-room Free Night Award, Suite Free Night Award, or a Points + Cash Award, up to a maximum of seven (7) consecutive nights. Not valid in connection with any Free Night Award other than those identified above, including, without limitation, Hyatt Credit Card premium and anniversary Free Night Awards, 5-brand Free Night Awards, Category 1-4 Free Night Awards (defined below) or any other promotional Free Night Award. Breakfast will not be provided to a Member at participating hotels or resorts without an accessible Club lounge. Club lounge access is subject to availability and space limitations. Explorist Club Lounge Access Awards are not redeemable when making a reservation at hotels or resorts that have not yet opened. (A Member making such a reservation will need to contact Hyatt after the applicable hotel or resort has opened (but before check-in for the underlying reservation) in order to determine whether (s)he may redeem an Explorist Club Lounge Access Award at that hotel or resort.)
Jan 1, 2018, 5:06 pm
#92
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: United 1K, AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3
hailstorm - You know, that is a good question. Perhaps I was too broad in saying, "regardless of the instrument you use, all freebie nights count for elite re-qual." So in the sections describing and defining Free Night Awards, I see now that reference to the Hyatt CC award nights is conspicuously absent. That unfortunately may be the definitive answer. But then, we have the section you quote above. And, virtually the same language is also stated in the "Redeeming Suite Upgrade Awards" paragraph, which I always read really to verify that Globalists can use the four suite upgrades on paid nights or point redemption nights but not when using the five brand awards, Cat1-4 awards, Cat1-7 awards, or Hyatt CC award nights, etc.
But of course that language does say, No other Free Night Awards, including without limitation, Hyatt Credit Card premium and anniversary Free Night Awards. So both of those sections use the defined, capitalized term "Free Night Awards." Ha, we got them! If only. I would agree that using the capitalized, defined term can possibly be read to further define that Free Night Awards include the Hyatt CC award nights, but unfortunately the absence of inclusion of Hyatt CC award nights in the sections that do specifically define Free Award Nights is problematic.
Still, we have that phrase, that awards be may be "earned by qualifying Members as a benefit in the Programor as a part of a related promotional offer from Hyatt." It may turn on the phrase, "earned by qualifying Members as a benefit in the Program" and whether that includes Hyatt CC award nights (i.e., is earning those awards from holding and using the Hyatt CC an actual benefit of the WOH Program, or, a benefit of the Hyatt CC Chase program?) You could argue that both ways I think. Or perhaps one could argue, if Hyatt CC Chase program terms are not that specific on this point, then that second part of the phrase applies - the CC awards are a "related promotional offer from Hyatt." Of course Hyatt could argue, no, those CC awards are a promotional offer from Chase. And round we go.
So idk ... perhaps the specific Ts/Cs of the Hyatt CC Chase program do speak to whether the Chase program defines those CC award nights as "Free Night Awards" within the context of the WOH Program?
TLDR: If you had to pin me down on whether the Hyatt CC award nights will count towards elite re-qual nights, just under the WOH terms, I would have to say No. But again, not knowing if the Chase program terms may somehow define the CC award nights as Free Night Awards under WOH.
But of course that language does say, No other Free Night Awards, including without limitation, Hyatt Credit Card premium and anniversary Free Night Awards. So both of those sections use the defined, capitalized term "Free Night Awards." Ha, we got them! If only. I would agree that using the capitalized, defined term can possibly be read to further define that Free Night Awards include the Hyatt CC award nights, but unfortunately the absence of inclusion of Hyatt CC award nights in the sections that do specifically define Free Award Nights is problematic.
Still, we have that phrase, that awards be may be "earned by qualifying Members as a benefit in the Programor as a part of a related promotional offer from Hyatt." It may turn on the phrase, "earned by qualifying Members as a benefit in the Program" and whether that includes Hyatt CC award nights (i.e., is earning those awards from holding and using the Hyatt CC an actual benefit of the WOH Program, or, a benefit of the Hyatt CC Chase program?) You could argue that both ways I think. Or perhaps one could argue, if Hyatt CC Chase program terms are not that specific on this point, then that second part of the phrase applies - the CC awards are a "related promotional offer from Hyatt." Of course Hyatt could argue, no, those CC awards are a promotional offer from Chase. And round we go.
So idk ... perhaps the specific Ts/Cs of the Hyatt CC Chase program do speak to whether the Chase program defines those CC award nights as "Free Night Awards" within the context of the WOH Program?
TLDR: If you had to pin me down on whether the Hyatt CC award nights will count towards elite re-qual nights, just under the WOH terms, I would have to say No. But again, not knowing if the Chase program terms may somehow define the CC award nights as Free Night Awards under WOH.
Jan 1, 2018, 5:19 pm
#93
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, SPG/Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, UA silver, Jetblue Mosaic
Posts: 161
You guys are so funny. Anniversary nights, Sign up nights and promotional free nights always counted as eligible nights for me even when award nights didn't count.
Jan 1, 2018, 6:02 pm
#94
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: United 1K, AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3
Ok so there may be hope here on Hyatt CC awards counting as status level re-qual nights. You all have to let me know, since I don't have the Hyatt CC: do the CC anniversary free nights etc appear in your Hyatt account page awards section, like the five brand awards, Cat1-4 - Cat1-7 awards, etc? If they do, then I revise my opinion above, since effectively that means redeeming the Hyatt CC award nights really is no different than redeeming any of those other award nights.
From the Chase terms: "Hyatt Credit Card Anniversary Free Night Award is good for one (1) night in any available standard room within 12 months from issuance at any Hyatt hotel or resorts designated as Category 1 through 4 under the World of Hyatt program."
So the Chase program terms do in fact use that defined, capitalized term. So I think you could argue that a plain meaning read of the WOH Program Ts/Cs, which reference earning Tier Qualifying Nights as, "pays an Eligible Rate or redeems a Free Night Award", contemplates an inclusive, broad definition of "Free Night Award".
Hyatt may make some clarifications in their support section etc but I guess I like to see if the real "legally" binding contract - the WOH Program Ts/Cs - really do support that the Hyatt CC award nights count for status re-qual nights. I think they may, we just rely on a broad, inclusive meaning of "Free Night Award".
Three posts, oh man I am really on a roll now.
From the Chase terms: "Hyatt Credit Card Anniversary Free Night Award is good for one (1) night in any available standard room within 12 months from issuance at any Hyatt hotel or resorts designated as Category 1 through 4 under the World of Hyatt program."
So the Chase program terms do in fact use that defined, capitalized term. So I think you could argue that a plain meaning read of the WOH Program Ts/Cs, which reference earning Tier Qualifying Nights as, "pays an Eligible Rate or redeems a Free Night Award", contemplates an inclusive, broad definition of "Free Night Award".
Hyatt may make some clarifications in their support section etc but I guess I like to see if the real "legally" binding contract - the WOH Program Ts/Cs - really do support that the Hyatt CC award nights count for status re-qual nights. I think they may, we just rely on a broad, inclusive meaning of "Free Night Award".
Three posts, oh man I am really on a roll now.
Last edited by Uniterson; Jan 1, 2018 at 6:27 pm
Jan 1, 2018, 6:42 pm
#95
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Hyatt Discoverist, SEIBU PRINCE CLUB Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 20,432
Ok so there may be hope here on Hyatt CC awards counting as status level re-qual nights. You all have to let me know, since I don't have the Hyatt CC: do the CC anniversary free nights etc appear in your Hyatt account page awards section, like the five brand awards, Cat1-4 - Cat1-7 awards, etc? If they do, then I revise my opinion above, since effectively that means redeeming the Hyatt CC award nights really is no different than redeeming any of those other award nights.
Jan 2, 2018, 7:11 am
#96
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: PHL
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AA Gold, FB Gold, ITA Volare Executive
Posts: 3,294
Thanks for all the feedback
Say the room rate on a PH Category 7 is $900/night, but you really want to stay there.
All points would be 30,000 points, in which case you are getting a return of 3 cents a point.
Points + cash would be $300 + 15,000 points, or 4 cents a point.
Now the all points stay will get a night stay credit, just like with points + cash, but I would still find the points + cash a better use of points.
I admit that there is an assumption built into all of this, that "you really want to stay there" on a $900 night. If the night were much lower, as you might find at PH NYC, then cash would beat both. If you would never want to stay/pay ($ or points) at any of these places, then this would all be moot. But the larger point (pun partially intended) is that I think the conventional wisdom is backwards (that Cat 1 and Cat 7 are the worst use of points + cash). Calculated correctly (cents per point in value relative to cash price, they are the best). I'm too lazy to Google it myself at the moment, but there is empirical as well as theoretical evidence for this. Frequent Miler a month or so back linked to the site that gives value for points for hotels, and one could see clearly that points at Hyatt are worth the most at Category 7s. Again, I stress that those calculations were relative to the observed distribution of all actual hotel prices.
All points would be 30,000 points, in which case you are getting a return of 3 cents a point.
Points + cash would be $300 + 15,000 points, or 4 cents a point.
Now the all points stay will get a night stay credit, just like with points + cash, but I would still find the points + cash a better use of points.
I admit that there is an assumption built into all of this, that "you really want to stay there" on a $900 night. If the night were much lower, as you might find at PH NYC, then cash would beat both. If you would never want to stay/pay ($ or points) at any of these places, then this would all be moot. But the larger point (pun partially intended) is that I think the conventional wisdom is backwards (that Cat 1 and Cat 7 are the worst use of points + cash). Calculated correctly (cents per point in value relative to cash price, they are the best). I'm too lazy to Google it myself at the moment, but there is empirical as well as theoretical evidence for this. Frequent Miler a month or so back linked to the site that gives value for points for hotels, and one could see clearly that points at Hyatt are worth the most at Category 7s. Again, I stress that those calculations were relative to the observed distribution of all actual hotel prices.
i think the real value of Hyatt points should be based on all your Hyatt stays, not just on a $900/night category 7 Hyatt property. For examples, if you only stay at category 7s with an average price of $900/night, surely it's reasonable to value 1 Hyatt pt = 3 cents, and it's rational to buy points when they are sold less than 3 cents. But people also stay at other categories with a much lower average rate . Therefore, most people value Hyatt point at around 1.5 cent each. In the example of cash+point you gave, you basically buy back points at 2 cents each ($300/15,000 pts). Not a good deal since one would pay greater than 1.5 ct/pt. Personally, I value Hyatt points at 1 ct/pt, since some hotels play games and free night is not always available for redeeming. Again, the idea is that the point valuation should be based on all stays, not just on a single night.
Absent from this and every other analysis I've seen on the value of points is that it varies for everybody. If you have so many points there is no hope of spending them all in your lifetime, then the value of new points is zero. If you have a more modest number of points, then the value that matters is the value when you spend them this week, next month, or years from now, which may be unknown.
you are looking at it the wrong way. Your 15000 points that you are saving are costing you $300 plush tax hyatt points can easily be bought from hyatt at 1.7 when they have promos which would cost you only $255 so why pay $330 to keep 15k points when they shouldn't cost you more than $255 (or less possibly)
I disagree mostly. Pts are worth what you will end up redeeming them for. If you can't redeem your pts for more than 2 cents per point, then Cat 7 pts+cash is a bad deal. If you routinely have no problem redeeming your pts for more than 2 cents per point, then pts+cash for cat 7 can be a good deal (assuming the cash price is above 600$).
I have earned (through various means, including credit card sign up bonus), bought (at 1.7 cents per point), and in turn burned/booked slightly more than 200,000 pts in the last 6 months -- my redemption range is 2.2 -5.5 cents per point, and my average is 3.5 cents per point. I have ~9K points in my balance right now.
That being said, if I was given 200,000 pts right now and told to burn them by rebooking my current cash bookings, my redemption would be about 1.7 cents per points (as I rebook at the highest return out there in my current bookings). If I have 2 years to use 200,000 pts though, I would wager that I would have travel in 2019 where they can be redeemed for 3+ cents/pt.
Cat 1 and Cat 7 pts+cash can be a bad deal and can be a good deal all depending on your current stash of points and your upcoming travel plans. This isn't something we can paint with a broad brush. Personally, my BEST redemptions (5+ cents/pt) have been Cat-1 cash+pts bookings when the cash rate is high. Will that always be my case? Probably not (since I got globalite breakfast benefit, my cat 1 booking days at HP/HHs are mostly over).
I have earned (through various means, including credit card sign up bonus), bought (at 1.7 cents per point), and in turn burned/booked slightly more than 200,000 pts in the last 6 months -- my redemption range is 2.2 -5.5 cents per point, and my average is 3.5 cents per point. I have ~9K points in my balance right now.
That being said, if I was given 200,000 pts right now and told to burn them by rebooking my current cash bookings, my redemption would be about 1.7 cents per points (as I rebook at the highest return out there in my current bookings). If I have 2 years to use 200,000 pts though, I would wager that I would have travel in 2019 where they can be redeemed for 3+ cents/pt.
Cat 1 and Cat 7 pts+cash can be a bad deal and can be a good deal all depending on your current stash of points and your upcoming travel plans. This isn't something we can paint with a broad brush. Personally, my BEST redemptions (5+ cents/pt) have been Cat-1 cash+pts bookings when the cash rate is high. Will that always be my case? Probably not (since I got globalite breakfast benefit, my cat 1 booking days at HP/HHs are mostly over).
We shouldn't mix up the directions of the money flow. The buy price of a Hyatt Point is not the same as a sell price of a Hyatt point. Just because you can buy at 1.7 cents doesn't mean you should sell at 1.71 or greater. When you are exercising C&P, you are selling points. The goal isn't any "profit" above 1.70 it's maximizing "profit".
I agree, as pointed out before, the profit calculation only works when you would actually pay that amount to stay there.
I agree, as pointed out before, the profit calculation only works when you would actually pay that amount to stay there.
But I am struck that my attitude toward Hyatt points seems to differ so from my attitude toward IHG points where, like bknets88, I am constantly thinking of posted room prices in terms of how I could pay for them at points levels with points that I'll purchase just for that purpose. Whereas for Hyatt points, I am constantly thinking about earning them through bonuses on credit card sign-ups (Chase UR points) or card spend, where essentially I minimal-value them at 2 cents (toward future Hyatt purchases) and then think about opportunity costs (applying for a different card and making spend on that one; using a different card at a restaurant). Anyhow, I see now that if one is willing to be a more active Hyatt points purchaser, the points qualification toward status opens up an option that can in some circumstances be more useful than C+P.
Jan 2, 2018, 10:19 am
#97
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: CMH, West Coast
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, oneworld emerald
Posts: 2,741
This announcement would have been exciting and further engendered my Hyatt loyalty if it had been done in 2015 or 2016. Now? Who cares, this is lipstick on a pig
Jan 2, 2018, 1:57 pm
#98
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: Delta DM | Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 169
I reached out to Hyatt's Twitter team regarding whether awards earned in 2017 but redeemed in 2018 would count as elite qualifying nights. They replied with the following:
...As for your question about award nights, the date of stay completion is what matters instead of when the award was earned. So any stays you have using awards in 2018 should count as qualifying stays as long as you are also staying in the room. Are there any other questions I may help with today? ^MilaM
Jan 2, 2018, 4:29 pm
#99
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,566
This kind of stuff baffles me to no end. What exactly was so much more incredible in 2016 that would have made this addition super exciting but now this is just garbage? The program has definitely had some issues in the last year, but I'm really continually confused by the people that just act like it is completely without any redeeming value at all.
Jan 2, 2018, 4:46 pm
#100
Join Date: Apr 2007
Programs: QF, VA, AC, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 3,779
This kind of stuff baffles me to no end. What exactly was so much more incredible in 2016 that would have made this addition super exciting but now this is just garbage? The program has definitely had some issues in the last year, but I'm really continually confused by the people that just act like it is completely without any redeeming value at all.
To me, as I stated above, I consider this window dressing. The overarching problem of finding a Hyatt hotel to spend the night out in order to reach the uber high top tier requirement still persists.
Jan 2, 2018, 5:07 pm
#102
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Stilllwater OK (SWO)
Programs: AAdvantage ExecPlat, World of Hyatt Globalist, plain "member" of Marriott, IHG, enterprise, etc.
Posts: 1,844
My stay from Dec 27 - Jan 1 posted. It was 1 night cat 1-4 award (which I put on Dec 27-28th) and 4 nights cash on a merged reservation. I got 4 nights credit for 2018, thus my Cat1-4 did NOT count for status even if it was thrown in a stay that ended and posted in 2018. Makes sense and is fair enough as the night I had it credited for was in 2017.
Jan 3, 2018, 1:40 am
#103
Moderator, El Al and Marriott Bonvoy, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ*G, Mar LTT, Hyatt Glb, AA LTG, LY, HH, IC, BA, DL, UA SLV
Posts: 12,018
My stay from Dec 27 - Jan 1 posted. It was 1 night cat 1-4 award (which I put on Dec 27-28th) and 4 nights cash on a merged reservation. I got 4 nights credit for 2018, thus my Cat1-4 did NOT count for status even if it was thrown in a stay that ended and posted in 2018. Makes sense and is fair enough as the night I had it credited for was in 2017.
Jan 3, 2018, 3:12 am
#104
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA & UK -- AA EXP 3.5MM, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, Avis President's Club
Posts: 6,411
Hyatt program changes are like a pendulum. They vary back and forth. Allowing stay credit on award nights is a swing in our (guests') direction. The next swing will likely be in their (hotels') direction. That's how pendulums work. I've tried most of the other programs and I didn't find anything that could convince me to switch allegiances. So I wait for each swing of the pendulum.
Jan 3, 2018, 9:30 am
#105
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: CMH, West Coast
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, oneworld emerald
Posts: 2,741
This kind of stuff baffles me to no end. What exactly was so much more incredible in 2016 that would have made this addition super exciting but now this is just garbage? The program has definitely had some issues in the last year, but I'm really continually confused by the people that just act like it is completely without any redeeming value at all.
2018=60 nights
I'm not a road warrior, and I literally cannot spend two months per year of my life in HYATTS, not just hotel rooms in general. So yes, the old program was incredibly useful to me, and the new one is pure garbage, with zero redeeming value for me whatsoever.