Finally! Award nights will count towards elite status in 2018
Dec 31, 2017, 5:13 am
#77
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, SPG/Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, UA silver, Jetblue Mosaic
Posts: 161
Say the room rate on a PH Category 7 is $900/night, but you really want to stay there.
All points would be 30,000 points, in which case you are getting a return of 3 cents a point.
Points + cash would be $300 + 15,000 points, or 4 cents a point.
Now the all points stay will get a night stay credit, just like with points + cash, but I would still find the points + cash a better use of points.
I admit that there is an assumption built into all of this, that "you really want to stay there" on a $900 night. If the night were much lower, as you might find at PH NYC, then cash would beat both. If you would never want to stay/pay ($ or points) at any of these places, then this would all be moot. But the larger point (pun partially intended) is that I think the conventional wisdom is backwards (that Cat 1 and Cat 7 are the worst use of points + cash). Calculated correctly (cents per point in value relative to cash price, they are the best). I'm too lazy to Google it myself at the moment, but there is empirical as well as theoretical evidence for this. Frequent Miler a month or so back linked to the site that gives value for points for hotels, and one could see clearly that points at Hyatt are worth the most at Category 7s. Again, I stress that those calculations were relative to the observed distribution of all actual hotel prices.
All points would be 30,000 points, in which case you are getting a return of 3 cents a point.
Points + cash would be $300 + 15,000 points, or 4 cents a point.
Now the all points stay will get a night stay credit, just like with points + cash, but I would still find the points + cash a better use of points.
I admit that there is an assumption built into all of this, that "you really want to stay there" on a $900 night. If the night were much lower, as you might find at PH NYC, then cash would beat both. If you would never want to stay/pay ($ or points) at any of these places, then this would all be moot. But the larger point (pun partially intended) is that I think the conventional wisdom is backwards (that Cat 1 and Cat 7 are the worst use of points + cash). Calculated correctly (cents per point in value relative to cash price, they are the best). I'm too lazy to Google it myself at the moment, but there is empirical as well as theoretical evidence for this. Frequent Miler a month or so back linked to the site that gives value for points for hotels, and one could see clearly that points at Hyatt are worth the most at Category 7s. Again, I stress that those calculations were relative to the observed distribution of all actual hotel prices.
Dec 31, 2017, 7:23 am
#79
formerly a193991
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zulu Romeo Hotel
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Dec 31, 2017, 8:35 am
#80
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
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you are looking at it the wrong way. Your 15000 points that you are saving are costing you $300 plush tax hyatt points can easily be bought from hyatt at 1.7 when they have promos which would cost you only $255 so why pay $330 to keep 15k points when they shouldn't cost you more than $255 (or less possibly)
Dec 31, 2017, 8:44 am
#81
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, SPG/Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, UA silver, Jetblue Mosaic
Posts: 161
Dec 31, 2017, 12:37 pm
#82
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Stilllwater OK (SWO)
Programs: AAdvantage ExecPlat, World of Hyatt Globalist, plain "member" of Marriott, IHG, enterprise, etc.
Posts: 1,847
I have earned (through various means, including credit card sign up bonus), bought (at 1.7 cents per point), and in turn burned/booked slightly more than 200,000 pts in the last 6 months -- my redemption range is 2.2 -5.5 cents per point, and my average is 3.5 cents per point. I have ~9K points in my balance right now.
That being said, if I was given 200,000 pts right now and told to burn them by rebooking my current cash bookings, my redemption would be about 1.7 cents per points (as I rebook at the highest return out there in my current bookings). If I have 2 years to use 200,000 pts though, I would wager that I would have travel in 2019 where they can be redeemed for 3+ cents/pt.
Cat 1 and Cat 7 pts+cash can be a bad deal and can be a good deal all depending on your current stash of points and your upcoming travel plans. This isn't something we can paint with a broad brush. Personally, my BEST redemptions (5+ cents/pt) have been Cat-1 cash+pts bookings when the cash rate is high. Will that always be my case? Probably not (since I got globalite breakfast benefit, my cat 1 booking days at HP/HHs are mostly over).
Dec 31, 2017, 12:38 pm
#83
Moderator: Hyatt Gold Passport & Star Alliance
Join Date: May 1998
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Posts: 12,087
Dec 31, 2017, 12:42 pm
#84
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Stilllwater OK (SWO)
Programs: AAdvantage ExecPlat, World of Hyatt Globalist, plain "member" of Marriott, IHG, enterprise, etc.
Posts: 1,847
Dec 31, 2017, 2:38 pm
#85
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, Florida
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Spire, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,009
Good news. Oddly, I didn't get the email announcement.
EDIT: Having now searched my email, it appears I haven't received any Hyatt emails in many months except those that were triggered by a reservation, checkout, or status qualification. Bizarre. My email and communication preferences remain unchanged.
EDIT: Having now searched my email, it appears I haven't received any Hyatt emails in many months except those that were triggered by a reservation, checkout, or status qualification. Bizarre. My email and communication preferences remain unchanged.
Last edited by joe_miami; Dec 31, 2017 at 2:49 pm
Dec 31, 2017, 3:26 pm
#86
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: usa
Programs: Free agent, value for my money
Posts: 149
Dec 31, 2017, 8:48 pm
#87
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,313
We shouldn't mix up the directions of the money flow. The buy price of a Hyatt Point is not the same as a sell price of a Hyatt point. Just because you can buy at 1.7 cents doesn't mean you should sell at 1.71 or greater. When you are exercising C&P, you are selling points. The goal isn't any "profit" above 1.70 it's maximizing "profit".
I agree, as pointed out before, the profit calculation only works when you would actually pay that amount to stay there.
I agree, as pointed out before, the profit calculation only works when you would actually pay that amount to stay there.
Jan 1, 2018, 12:07 pm
#88
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 155
Onemileatatime confirmed with Hyatt that GofH will give elite stay credit to actual person staying in room provided the confirmation shows up in that person's Hyatt acct
Jan 1, 2018, 2:19 pm
#89
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: United 1K, AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3
Hello. Thought I should perhaps post some hopefully helpful info after reading this website for so long.
RE: "Do free night awards count as tier qualifying nights?" - the Hyatt Ts/Cs has been updated. The answer is - Yes. The relevant definition of "Tier Qualifying Night" has been updated in the Ts/Cs effective January 1, 2018. You can see below (from Appendix C) that Hyatt added "or redeems a Free Night Award" to the definition. So we now have real confirmation that freebie nights will count towards elite status re-qualification.
"a) Tier-Qualifying Nights. A Member may earn elite status based on the number of nights the Member (i) stays at a Hyatt hotel or resort or an M life Rewards destination; (ii) pays an Eligible Rate or redeems a Free Night Award; and (iii) associates his or her valid Program membership number with the reservation (either at the time of reservation or check-in or by requesting retroactive credit for the night in accordance with Hyatt’s procedures) during the applicable measuring period (each a “Tier-Qualifying Night”);"
Then In section (b) of Appendix B that discusses "Free Night Awards", all of the prior description is still there. So we know that a "Free Night Award" means redeeming your points, using a Five Brand night award, using a Cat1-4 or Cat1-7 night award, etc- all of those are defined as "Free Night Awards". So regardless of what instrument use you, our freebie nights in 2018 all count as tier qualifying nights for purposes of elite status re-qualification.
In addition, Section (a) of Appendix B further defines a "Free Night Award" as follows: "Free Night Awards and Room Upgrade Awards may be: (i) available to Members who redeem a specified number of points or (ii) earned by qualifying Members as a benefit in the Program or as a part of a related promotional offer from Hyatt." So here, points redemptions are clear, and I read the "earned as a benefit of the program" part as meaning those Five Brand, Cat1-4, Cat1-7, etc awards, since they all are earned by specific activity in the WOH program (eg, stay at five different brands, hit 30 nights, hit 60 nights, etc).
I wondered how Hyatt would handle the change in the Ts/Cs (eg, change the definition of "Eligible Rate"?), but you can see from the revised Ts/Cs that they simply added "or redeems a Free Night Award" to the definition of a "Tier Qualifying Night".
Also of note: my Hyatt account now officially says - "55 Qualifying Nights to Globalist". But I am sure like you all, it will be curious to see what goodies we get at those 55 nights. It seems fairly settled that the Cat1-7 free night cert for hitting 60 nights does indeed mean, you have to hit 60 nights. That award is not linked to re-qual for Globalist. But while the Ts/Cs seem to clearly(ish) say that for the four suite upgrade awards, we get them "Upon achieving (or re-achieving) Globalist status by satisfying the Tier-Qualifying Night requirement...", well, we will have to see what happens when one of you early re-qualifiers hits 55 nights this year.
Also, the Hyatt Ts/Cs have been updated for expiration dates of the Cat1-4 and Cat1-7 freebie night awards. I do think this description in the Ts/Cs is meant to confirm that previously such free nights expired after 120 days, but awards issued in 2018 and going forward will now expire after 180 days. I do not believe that there is any real confusion about such award you may have gotten in 2017 (which will indeed expire after 120 days) not counting as a tier qualifying night in 2018. Its when you use the freebie night award (in 2018, of course) that counts. There is no reference to these awards issued in 2017 not counting as tier qualifying nights.
So if you hit 60 nights in December 2017, for instance (as I did, purposefully), then when you use the Cat1-7 freebie night award you got for hitting that milestone, sometime in the next four months, that freebie night will certainly count as as one of the 55 Tier Qualifying Nights we need to re-qual for Globalist this year.
"The Category 1-4 Free Night Award [and the Category 1-7 Free Night Award] is valid for one hundred and eighty (180) days from the date of issuance and must be redeemed for a reservation with a checkout date before the expiration of the award. (Category 1-4 Free Night Awards [and Category 1-7 Free Night Awards] issued prior to January 1, 2018 are valid for one hundred and twenty (120) days from the date of issuance.)"
Hopefully this is helpful to you all and not too much analysis. I'm a corporate transactional attorney so this stuff just seems to tumble out of me.
RE: "Do free night awards count as tier qualifying nights?" - the Hyatt Ts/Cs has been updated. The answer is - Yes. The relevant definition of "Tier Qualifying Night" has been updated in the Ts/Cs effective January 1, 2018. You can see below (from Appendix C) that Hyatt added "or redeems a Free Night Award" to the definition. So we now have real confirmation that freebie nights will count towards elite status re-qualification.
"a) Tier-Qualifying Nights. A Member may earn elite status based on the number of nights the Member (i) stays at a Hyatt hotel or resort or an M life Rewards destination; (ii) pays an Eligible Rate or redeems a Free Night Award; and (iii) associates his or her valid Program membership number with the reservation (either at the time of reservation or check-in or by requesting retroactive credit for the night in accordance with Hyatt’s procedures) during the applicable measuring period (each a “Tier-Qualifying Night”);"
Then In section (b) of Appendix B that discusses "Free Night Awards", all of the prior description is still there. So we know that a "Free Night Award" means redeeming your points, using a Five Brand night award, using a Cat1-4 or Cat1-7 night award, etc- all of those are defined as "Free Night Awards". So regardless of what instrument use you, our freebie nights in 2018 all count as tier qualifying nights for purposes of elite status re-qualification.
In addition, Section (a) of Appendix B further defines a "Free Night Award" as follows: "Free Night Awards and Room Upgrade Awards may be: (i) available to Members who redeem a specified number of points or (ii) earned by qualifying Members as a benefit in the Program or as a part of a related promotional offer from Hyatt." So here, points redemptions are clear, and I read the "earned as a benefit of the program" part as meaning those Five Brand, Cat1-4, Cat1-7, etc awards, since they all are earned by specific activity in the WOH program (eg, stay at five different brands, hit 30 nights, hit 60 nights, etc).
I wondered how Hyatt would handle the change in the Ts/Cs (eg, change the definition of "Eligible Rate"?), but you can see from the revised Ts/Cs that they simply added "or redeems a Free Night Award" to the definition of a "Tier Qualifying Night".
Also of note: my Hyatt account now officially says - "55 Qualifying Nights to Globalist". But I am sure like you all, it will be curious to see what goodies we get at those 55 nights. It seems fairly settled that the Cat1-7 free night cert for hitting 60 nights does indeed mean, you have to hit 60 nights. That award is not linked to re-qual for Globalist. But while the Ts/Cs seem to clearly(ish) say that for the four suite upgrade awards, we get them "Upon achieving (or re-achieving) Globalist status by satisfying the Tier-Qualifying Night requirement...", well, we will have to see what happens when one of you early re-qualifiers hits 55 nights this year.
Also, the Hyatt Ts/Cs have been updated for expiration dates of the Cat1-4 and Cat1-7 freebie night awards. I do think this description in the Ts/Cs is meant to confirm that previously such free nights expired after 120 days, but awards issued in 2018 and going forward will now expire after 180 days. I do not believe that there is any real confusion about such award you may have gotten in 2017 (which will indeed expire after 120 days) not counting as a tier qualifying night in 2018. Its when you use the freebie night award (in 2018, of course) that counts. There is no reference to these awards issued in 2017 not counting as tier qualifying nights.
So if you hit 60 nights in December 2017, for instance (as I did, purposefully), then when you use the Cat1-7 freebie night award you got for hitting that milestone, sometime in the next four months, that freebie night will certainly count as as one of the 55 Tier Qualifying Nights we need to re-qual for Globalist this year.
"The Category 1-4 Free Night Award [and the Category 1-7 Free Night Award] is valid for one hundred and eighty (180) days from the date of issuance and must be redeemed for a reservation with a checkout date before the expiration of the award. (Category 1-4 Free Night Awards [and Category 1-7 Free Night Awards] issued prior to January 1, 2018 are valid for one hundred and twenty (120) days from the date of issuance.)"
Hopefully this is helpful to you all and not too much analysis. I'm a corporate transactional attorney so this stuff just seems to tumble out of me.
Last edited by Uniterson; Jan 1, 2018 at 2:51 pm
Jan 1, 2018, 3:57 pm
#90
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,561
Just a bit of experience here. I was at 54 nights before the end of the year and had an 8 night P+C reservation that ended yesterday (12/31). This morning I got the "another year of Globalist" email. My account shows 55 nights to requal.
However, I now also have the Cat 1-7 award in my account with an expiration of 4/30/2018 (i.e. 120 days). It was not in my account yesterday as the stay had not posted (and therefore could not have been redeemed). I would deem this as "issued" on 1/1 which would qualify under the new rules, but of course it was linked to 2017 nights, so I can see their case. I wonder if I could fight for the 180 day expiration
My TSUs are in there with a 12/31/18 expiration date as well
However, I now also have the Cat 1-7 award in my account with an expiration of 4/30/2018 (i.e. 120 days). It was not in my account yesterday as the stay had not posted (and therefore could not have been redeemed). I would deem this as "issued" on 1/1 which would qualify under the new rules, but of course it was linked to 2017 nights, so I can see their case. I wonder if I could fight for the 180 day expiration
My TSUs are in there with a 12/31/18 expiration date as well