MarkOK

I suppose I haven't paid enough attention to loyalty programs until this year to notice. (started gold passport something like 10 years ago, miraculously always had at least one stay every so often to keep from losing points, but this is the first year I have paid attention to 'status' benefits, let alone point promotions). So, I guess I can't miss what I never really knew I had. Nor do I really care about promos in general. All I really know is that at a base, Hyatt points seem to be worth about double what Marriot or Hilton points are worth anyways.

MarkOK

Ummmmm, I kind of feel like ---everyone---- does that kind of stupid spam stuff though where they put something in the heading that sounds exiting only to list the standard offerings. (example, an email the other day from six flags --- "Dine for Free during Frightfest!!!" only to read in the body that they are just trying to sell me their food-season pass thing that they are always trying to sell ((I love rollercoasters, but I don't eat at Six flags often, because it is downright bad food))

As for the 'screw your employer' thing, does anyone really do that with the double points rate? I feel like that if caught (does it say it on the invoice?), I would have a nightmare of bureaucrats swarm and audit every aspect of my travel going back years.

notquiteaff

You don't care about what you pay for the room? Even if someone else pays for your hotel stays, points and free nights are essentially a kickback to you. There is a whole site that pretty much evolves around this... it is called Flyertalk

A dollar is about 112 times worth what a Japanes Yen is worth. You need to not only look at the redemption value, but also how many you earn. Jobs in Japan pay a lot more Yens

I wonder if the turmoil at WoH has lead to paralysis.

notquiteaff

My employer's travel booking system would simply not offer that rate.

MarkOK

I just discovered Flyertalk a few months ago too! Luckily I found it now as it has been invaluable at really doing the critical calculations regarding travel programs right as my travel really ramps ups (about twice as much work travel as before, but really, it more about 4 times more personal-leisure and semi-leisure travel). The reason I say 'in general' I don't like promos, it is because I like booking travel in advance when I find great deals without the waiting/play games with promos. If a promo can help me along the way getting more, then I guess that would be great of course, but if it makes me regret or make less valuable some of my early comfortable price-value-shopping work, then I will feel cheated.

In a world that has no promotions (which is the ignorant world I have lived in for a long time), I've found Hyatt earn/redemption to be so much better than others. I am apparently not advanced enough in this arena to feel out/expect/miss promos. I suppose I can do my homework to see what I am should be missing!

Kacee

That's flat wrong. The Hyatt rebate is much lower than Hilton or Marriott.

craigthemif

Not really...

Hyatt - 5 points per $ - 7.5-8.5% rebate
Hilton - 15 points per $ - 7.5% rebate
Marriott - 10 points per $ - 7.5-8.5% rebate

Status has different implications. But the base scenario is pretty standard, which is why promos skew the decision for many FT-ers.

bigguyinpasadena

It is a duplicate to what SPG has been running for a while now without the odious two night stay requirement.

Those who have high spend or who can expense their stays like this sort of promo. Those of us who are leisure travelers or on a budget (paying out of their own pocket-I fall into this camp) do not care for it.

bigguyinpasadena

As well as the earning rate one has to take into consideration the amount of points needed for redemption at like properties. I feel HGP is a very good return on investment when redeeming especially at "aspirational" properties.

bigguyinpasadena

Unfortunately the scales have fallen from your eyes at a time when this game is just not that much fun anymore
If World of Hyatt works for you and your business/leisure travel patterns then I encourage you to stick with it as I have had wonderful experiences with Hyatt.

Unfortunately World of Hurt launched their outrageous new program requirements in such a ham handed manner that many of us former Hyatt loyalists (notice the use of the small "l" ) have soured on the program altogether

With that said you should consider which program you are most likely to make top tier with- it really does make a difference.

craigthemif

That's the point of having a Hyatt point "worth" 1.5 cents and a Hilton point worth 0.5 cents in my quickie analysis.

Hilton does great with the crowd that think "10 points per $ must be better than 5" without knowing how much a free night costs.

solewalker

Actually ...
To get a free cat-1 Hilton night, you only need to spend $333 (15 points as a base member doing Miles & Miles) sans promo.

To get a free cat-1 Hyatt night, you need to spend $1000 (5 points as a base member) sans promo.

Of course, the cat-1 Hiltons are few and far between.

Hilton promotions do tend to rain points, and as an elite, it's more normal to get between 25-30+ points per dollar spent.

bigguyinpasadena

And I agree with your analysis. However every time this comes up some Marriott loyalist pops up with the argument about MR "earning more points per dollar spent" without looking at the redemption side.

Marriott Rewards point redemption for higher end properties is absolutely insane IMO. Hyatt is still within reason all things considered.

MarkOK

What I find less rewarding about Marriott is more to do with redemption values and ability to earn points on credit. You may earn 'twice as many' points, but more often than not, you need more than twice as many points on the redemption side.

A cat 1 Hyatt Place/House equivalent (5K WoH points) in the Marriot system is usually about a cat 3 (15K points). A cat 2 Hyatt (8K points) often compares to Marriot Cat 4s-6s (20k+ points). etc If you get Marriot point saver nights, it equals out a bit in the mid-tier cases. That is gross comparison as in both networks there are some hotels that are at an inflated category and some at an under-valued category. I am sure you can find favorable comparisons the other way too, depending on what you consider 'equivalent'. But IMO, Marriott NEEDS promotions to be competitive more than Hyatt does. I have less experience first-hand with Hilton honors, but the analysis I've done seems to be the same as with marriot (perhaps even worst?).

What is the real kicker is on credit card points earning. 1$ per 1 pt on 'all other purchases' whether through Ultimate Rewards card or through the respective Marriott or Hyatt credit cards is practically twice or more as valuable on the Hyatt side compared to the Marriott side. The only advantage to Marriott is footprint, but that doesn't impact me as much as it may impact all of you. And as far as earning status, no matter the old goldpassport or hilton honors, etc, I would earn status based on nights before stays, and in a 'normal' year, I could land at Marriot Silver (which is rather poor), Hilton Silver (bad) or stretch to make Gold, or make WoH Explorist. In an heavy travel year (which I will have next year), I can make 60 night top status with Hilton or WoH, but Marriot Platinum would be too much of a stretch at 75 nights. I value WoH Explorists > Marriot Silver or even Hilton Gold, and I value WoH Glob> hilton diamond or Marriot Gold. Now, perhaps Marriot gold>WoH explorists, so that 50 night arena is where one has to decide whether to go Marriot Gold or stretch 10 nights somewhere to make WoH explorists. But anyways, when I look at where I want to focus my points and travel, I find it almost 'too easy' to get tons of Hyatt points through credit card spending and hotel stays that I wonder if I will be able to keep finding ways to redeem them at great valuations (my points and point+cash stays both this year and next are all at pt values >2.6 cents per point, and many are ~5 cents/pt). Promos could be great if they fit my planned travel anyways, they could also be meaningless to me if they require certain hoops that are too difficult to jump through, and since I feel flush on points anyways, then I am not going to want to go through any hoops or spend more money just to get promo points that I may have to 'burn' someday at only 1-1.5 cent per point -- in other words, not sure the math would work out.

notquiteaff

Where does the 10 points per dollar come from?

Ignoring promos, base level Honors members earn 10+5 Honors points or 10 points + 1 mile per dollar. To keep it simple, the fairest comparison between Hilton and Hyatt is the first choice, so 15 points per dollar.

http://hiltonhonors3.hilton.com/en/e...ing/index.html

Hyatt base level members earn 5 points per dollar spent.

I agree with your general point that you need to take into consideration the cost of redemption. But also the earnings rate, and promos make a huge difference. And the potential to earn points through other means. E.g, I get 3 Hyatt points per dollar spent at a Hyatt. My Hilton Surpass gives me 12 points (which is great unless you stay at international properties and pay 2.7% Forex fees).