World of Hyatt [Pre-Launch]

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Old Jan 17, 17, 12:53 am
  #2566  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
I was trying to find a nice PC way to say, "those who spend more money should be treated better than cheap *ss freeloaders."

Better?
If that is their intent, or if that is "how it should be", then they should merely go on a spend-only basis.

The new program still rewards the biggest freeloaders, those who were already spending 50+ nights in the cheapest possible Hyatts on their employer's money.

WoH will drive more business toward lower-end properties because these super-freeloaders will now have to spend 60 nights rather than the previous 50, but it will significantly reduce the number of mid-spend (US8-12K) guests while having no effect on the stay pattern of the very high-end group.

When Diamond was attainable, Hyatt got 90-100% of my 40-45 leisure nights and 10-12K spend each year. Since Explorist is not worth the effort, that percentage will likely drop to 0-50%. Lost revenue, pure and simple.

And I find it unimaginable that 20K spend is the breakeven point for Dia/Glob benefits. In many if not most cases, the benefits represent extremely little actual cost to the property, especially as a percentage of the room rate - a slightly larger room, a later checkout, an extra mouth for a buffet style breakfast...

From another perspective, Hyatt is taking a very big gamble by eliminating a stay requirement while Hilton and SPG maintain theirs. Maybe Hyatt is setting a trend, and then again, maybe not.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 1:09 am
  #2567  
 
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Originally Posted by woresu View Post
This expires in 120 days?
Yes, it's an enhancement. That way you get the opportunity to use it right after you earn it.

Or, Hyatt knows that most people will have these expire unused because they aren't able to take multiple vacations in a year. Methinks someone gave Hyatt's management a secret briefing on breakage rates and how to achieve high breakage rates. This should work pretty well.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 1:14 am
  #2568  
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
I was trying to find a nice PC way to say, "those who spend more money should be treated better than cheap *ss freeloaders."

Better?
No, you are still parroting what is being spoon fed by GP.... it's cost cutting, nothing more.
Plenty of intelligent posts here that make the point that 60 nights is not attainable because people are staying at the high/medium priced properties and there's simply not enough of them worldwide or 2 months only at Hyatts is a bit much..... significant lost revenue it is from those members.
Most aren't that interested in staying at HH/HP's, not exactly freeloaders.

Last edited by RTW1; Jan 17, 17 at 1:20 am
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Old Jan 17, 17, 1:17 am
  #2569  
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Originally Posted by iflyjetz View Post
Yes, it's an enhancement. That way you get the opportunity to use it right after you earn it.

Or, Hyatt knows that most people will have these expire unused because they aren't able to take multiple vacations in a year. Methinks someone gave Hyatt's management a secret briefing on breakage rates and how to achieve high breakage rates. This should work pretty well.
Exactly.... I'm normally flexible with my vacations. But having to wait for an award to post and then finding a decent property that still has availability for the night I would want within 2,5-3 months will be difficult. So these will be likely spent at lesser properties or not at all.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 1:22 am
  #2570  
 
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Originally Posted by RTW1 View Post
No, you are still parroting what is being spoon fed by GP.... it's cost cutting, nothing more.
Plenty of intelligent posts here that make the point that 60 nights is not attainable because people are staying at the high/medium priced properties and there's simply not enough of them worldwide..... significant lost revenue it is from those members. Most aren't that interested in staying at HH/HP's, not exactly freeloaders.
The problem isn't simply that it is unattainable. I've been a 30-35 nighter and could make 55 if I tried a bit. But it's simply not worth it. It's laughable that they are touting free water and a once-in-a-lifetime award night for staying at five brands. Give me something worth seeking and I'll seek it. Reward me by calling me a Globalist and I won't. The only good think about "Globalist" is it expires at the end of a year.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 1:40 am
  #2571  
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Originally Posted by JackE View Post
The problem isn't simply that it is unattainable. I've been a 30-35 nighter and could make 55 if I tried a bit.
I re-qualified with 50 nights last year but it took quite an effort with a travel year where I didn't visit the US. The reality is that there are plenty of destination where Hyatt has no presence. I'm off to New Zealand next month for instance. So I should stay in hotels for 100+days this year to make the 60 nights.

But you are also right that the benefits are simply not worth it. I could convince myself that 30-40 nights was worth it, but not 60. But those Expl benefits are even more pathetic.
And the latest info seems to suggest that DSU's might be linked to the 60 night threshold not Glob status, so they provide even less value than what you would assume.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 6:21 am
  #2572  
 
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Originally Posted by OsakaWino View Post
The new program still rewards the biggest freeloaders, those who were already spending 50+ nights in the cheapest possible Hyatts on their employer's money.
Not always. Rumour has it there are certain road warriors with sufficiently flexible travel policies (or at companies with sufficiently incompetent expense/compliance staff ) whose work travel is geared around spending as much as possible of their employer's money to earn as many points for themselves as possible. They then aim to vacation using these points, and as little as possible of their own money.

WOH is great for these folks (DSU on points stays, no resort fees), but I'm not sure I'd call this loyalty.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 8:30 am
  #2573  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
I was trying to find a nice PC way to say, "those who spend more money should be treated better than cheap *ss freeloaders."

Better?
Congrats to Hyatt for bringing the same stupid, pointless, self-aggrandizing, crap-on-others, false zero-sum game discussion here which has been plaguing DL/UA/AA forums since introduction of spend requirements for elite status.

The crux of the argument is the quote above, in a sense of "those cheap gamers that game the system with their cheap mileage (and now mattress) runs to get this vaunted exalted top elite status that I "worked" so hard to get "for real" (because *my* flying/sleeping in a hotel is more legitimate based on terms I've just invented), and now they're "taking away" my benefits (by being present on the same plane or in the same hotel lounge I guess)."

The fundamental misconception, of course, being that those special elite benefits are only realized when one is actually flying or staying at a hotel. So if one got status-matched, or did a bunch of cheap HP/HH stays (or cheap flights in case of the airlines), they wouldn't normally do to get Diamond/Glob, and then went back to their normal patterns, they are not in fact taking up anyone's space for DSUs, lounges, or upgrades, because they're not staying/flying as much as those who do 60+ nights / 100K miles.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 9:34 am
  #2574  
 
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Originally Posted by OsakaWino View Post
If that is their intent, or if that is "how it should be", then they should merely go on a spend-only basis.

The new program still rewards the biggest freeloaders, those who were already spending 50+ nights in the cheapest possible Hyatts on their employer's money.
I'm not an expert on the Hyatt Passport program, nor have I studied it in any detail enough to forecast the potential positive/adverse effects of these changes on everyone. I ONLY pointed where, from my view, the new change where status is conferred for $20K absent of any other trivial requirement is a welcome change from the past. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally Posted by OsakaWino View Post
WoH will drive more business toward lower-end properties because these super-freeloaders will now have to spend 60 nights rather than the previous 50, but it will significantly reduce the number of mid-spend (US8-12K) guests while having no effect on the stay pattern of the very high-end group.
Earlier, I posted where I felt eliminating the stays, but keeping the nights at 50, or even lowering to 40/45, would likely yield better results. However, I can only assume Hyatt has considered this and rejected it. Perhaps, it would have been better with the following to earn Glob: (1) 60 stays; (2) 30 stays and 50K points earned (no bonuses, transfers, and other assorted cheesy stuff); and, (3) 100K points earned. Would you find this more palatable and fair?

Originally Posted by OsakaWino View Post
When Diamond was attainable, Hyatt got 90-100% of my 40-45 leisure nights and 10-12K spend each year. Since Explorist is not worth the effort, that percentage will likely drop to 0-50%. Lost revenue, pure and simple.
Aside from being a consumer, my knowledge of the Hospitality industry is limited. However, I'd wager your profile would be a valuable and welcomed addition to any Hotel chain. I don't Hyatt's intention is to drive you away, but they're probably betting on the following: (1) the mass Corp consumer (aforementioned HP freeloaders) offer a reliable revenue stream and are not price sensitive (its the shareholders money, after all); (2) at least force them to stay 60 to be more aligned with their peer group; and, (3) take a chance that you'll be unable to find a similar Hotel rewards program with commensurate rewards value. In your case, what they've missed, is we as consumers could just take our money and stay at the Boutique hotels where "top drawer" service is the main driver of revenue, not gimmicky rebates.

Originally Posted by OsakaWino View Post
And I find it unimaginable that 20K spend is the breakeven point for Dia/Glob benefits. In many if not most cases, the benefits represent extremely little actual cost to the property, especially as a percentage of the room rate - a slightly larger room, a later checkout, an extra mouth for a buffet style breakfast...
I have no idea if it's the equilibrium point, but only suggesting WOH feels this is the amount where they're comfortable on waiving all requirements to confer top tier status.

Originally Posted by OsakaWino View Post
From another perspective, Hyatt is taking a very big gamble by eliminating a stay requirement while Hilton and SPG maintain theirs. Maybe Hyatt is setting a trend, and then again, maybe not.
Only speaking for myself, but if I were to spend $25K per year at hotels, I certainly wouldn't spend it where freeloaders will earn top tier status while I'm being treated as a 2nd class citizen. There's no way I'm going to pay top dollar to allow a transfer to these folks. Same reason I'll refuse to buy F class flights where Airlines give it away for free.

Last edited by Markie; Jan 17, 17 at 11:47 pm
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Old Jan 17, 17, 9:40 am
  #2575  
 
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Originally Posted by RTW1 View Post
No, you are still parroting what is being spoon fed by GP.... it's cost cutting, nothing more.
Plenty of intelligent posts here that make the point that 60 nights is not attainable because people are staying at the high/medium priced properties and there's simply not enough of them worldwide or 2 months only at Hyatts is a bit much..... significant lost revenue it is from those members.
Most aren't that interested in staying at HH/HP's, not exactly freeloaders.
Again, I'm not asserting the new WOH is perfect. I'm only pointing out one aspect where I find the change positive. I'm really indifferent to the rest, aside from their sophomoric effort on the rebranding.

If I can't make 60 nights, then I'll find a better place to spend my money. No one is saying anyone has to stay with the program. Consumers with money to spend will always find a product that fits their needs better when an existing one no longer does.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 9:44 am
  #2576  
 
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Originally Posted by akcae View Post
Congrats to Hyatt for bringing the same stupid, pointless, self-aggrandizing, crap-on-others, false zero-sum game discussion here which has been plaguing DL/UA/AA forums since introduction of spend requirements for elite status.
This has been debated ad nauseam on here and elsewhere. There's very little to gain for us to continue arguments where I'm sure we both have heard many times.

So, we'll agree to disagree, since there's no way I'll convince you, and you certainly aren't going alter my views.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 9:47 am
  #2577  
 
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Originally Posted by shorthauldad View Post
Not always. Rumour has it there are certain road warriors with sufficiently flexible travel policies (or at companies with sufficiently incompetent expense/compliance staff ) whose work travel is geared around spending as much as possible of their employer's money to earn as many points for themselves as possible. They then aim to vacation using these points, and as little as possible of their own money.

WOH is great for these folks (DSU on points stays, no resort fees), but I'm not sure I'd call this loyalty.
Of course, Hyatt is seeking to maximize rev/profit. I mean, are they going to minimize it to be nice? It's a FOR PROFIT enterprise, after all.

If the above is true, then their changes make perfect sense. Capture a group who is price insensitive and in essence bribe them for the revenue. It's a very efficient transfer of wealth from Shareholders to Hyatt.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 9:51 am
  #2578  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
Only speaking for myself, but if I were to spend $25K per year at hotels, I certainly wouldn't spend it where freeloaders will earn top tier status while I'm being treated as a 2nd class citizen. There's no way I'm going to pay top dollar to allow a transfer to these folks. Same reason I'll refuse to buy F class flights where Airlines give it away for free.
I spent about 25k at Hyatt alone last year, and I'm certainly not spending that much again this year when their Park Hyatt's and Andaz properties in the US are mediocre when compared to other premium hotels.

Also, hotels aren't stupid. they see how much you've spent at their properties, and where you've stayed, they always treat people who spend money as regulars better than those who gain status on cheap stays.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 9:54 am
  #2579  
 
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When this first happened, I figured there would be enough of a blowback and fuss that Hyatt might change their mind. Then Hyatt proceeded to do that AMA, I sort of figured they HAD to back down and amend it, the amateur-night way it was rolled out had stopped being comical and started being ridiculous.

Now I doubt we'll see any changes, unless the Priztker family sees actual economic harm that can be tied to the change.
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Old Jan 17, 17, 10:13 am
  #2580  
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So here's what happened when UA implemented PQD while at the same time cutting elite benes . . .

First there was a bunch of talk in the UA forum about "thinning the herd" by getting rid of the "cheap mileage runners" and how that would improve the elite experience for those "high value flyers" who remained.

Then UA found they were losing a bunch of frequent flyer business, particularly 1Ks who it turned out were material to their profitability. So they "gifted" status to a whole bunch of people last year (annoying the heck out of those self-proclaimed "HVFs"), while at the same time upping the PQMs on discount front cabin fares (P and A) to 200%, which had the effect of making it easier to qualify for status while flying less.

So the ranks are once again full of 1Ks, but benefits continue to be cut, with upgrades nearing extinction.

That is the basic "loyalty" program model in 2017, and there is no reason to believe that the essential trajectory of WoH will be materially different.
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