Nov 6, 2016, 5:33 am
World of Hyatt [Pre-Launch]
Dec 29, 2016, 11:48 am
#2281
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
It wasn't how I wanted it to go, but this World of Hyatt devaluation has pushed me back into dealing with Hilton and Marriott/SPG far more than would be the case if Hyatt GoldPassporr would have been left as is. My next ten regular paid stays for the next 30 days are mostly at Marriott/SPG properties with a few leftovers for Hilton. If it weren't for the WOH devaluation, Hyatt would have had at least half of those upcoming stays within the next 30 days.
Love it!
Dec 29, 2016, 12:40 pm
#2282
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,027
I know we've rehashed all of the comparisons endlessly, but I'm left staring at:
SPG: 40 nights to Platinum (due to 10 nights via ccs, with no spend needed)
Hyatt: 60 nights to Diamond/Gist
Pretty significant difference for me, especially since award nights and multiple rooms count toward that 40.
50% more for somewhat comparable benefits.
SPG: 40 nights to Platinum (due to 10 nights via ccs, with no spend needed)
Hyatt: 60 nights to Diamond/Gist
Pretty significant difference for me, especially since award nights and multiple rooms count toward that 40.
50% more for somewhat comparable benefits.
Dec 29, 2016, 1:56 pm
#2283
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: California
Programs: Hyatt Global, Marriot Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 2,282
Dec 29, 2016, 1:59 pm
#2284
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: California
Programs: Hyatt Global, Marriot Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 2,282
What they are telling themselves.
http://s2.q4cdn.com/278413729/files/...esentation.pdf
This covers many things, including WoH. They have glowing feedback on WoH from stakeholders, if you don't count guests as being stakeholders.
This covers many things, including WoH. They have glowing feedback on WoH from stakeholders, if you don't count guests as being stakeholders.
Dec 29, 2016, 2:00 pm
#2285
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: ORD-LAS
Programs: UA MM 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 4,419
Hopefully Hyatt realizes that 60 nights is too much for it's limited portfolio. 50 Nights is stretching it, but it's doable. 60 will really be hard. They should do 30 stays/50 nights. Hopefully they rethink this. Hyatt is very good with listening to it's customers so hopefully they make the change soon.
Dec 29, 2016, 2:19 pm
#2286
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stockholm
Programs: Various
Posts: 3,368
http://s2.q4cdn.com/278413729/files/...esentation.pdf
This covers many things, including WoH. They have glowing feedback on WoH from stakeholders, if you don't count guests as being stakeholders.
This covers many things, including WoH. They have glowing feedback on WoH from stakeholders, if you don't count guests as being stakeholders.
I'll read this one carefully later but what I saw immediately is the average revenue per member. An average Diamond spends $16,800/year. That's a whole lot more than I thought. The median revenue would be interesting to see.
Dec 29, 2016, 2:26 pm
#2287
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,027
That's 2015. 2016 introduced the SPG match, and I'll bet that number plunged significantly.
Dec 29, 2016, 2:34 pm
#2288
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stockholm
Programs: Various
Posts: 3,368
You're absolutely right. I missed that part and I also agree with what you're saying. The presentation also taught me that penetration is better in Europe than in the Americas. At least if we count per "Consuming Class Households".
Dec 29, 2016, 2:40 pm
#2289
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,566
As I recall from a similar pdf in 2013 or so, the average diamond was spending about 13k IIRC. Interesting. I think on average, the microcosm that is FT will have far less impact than they are telling themselves they will. There are definitely some parts of WoH that I do not like at all, so I am hoping there will be some changes and fixes though. I think the people who expect that Hyatt will collapse under the impact of tons of fleeing 25 night a year diamonds will be disappointed.
Incidentally, page 6 shows you all you need to know about Hyatt in the last few years with the magic words..."since IPO."
Lot of interesting stuff in there. Shows a lot of strength in the hotel market and Hyatt specifically. No wonder they are willing to make these kind of changes. Do people think that Diamonds alone are driving stuff like a 600 basis point increase in owned/leased hotel margin and a 900 basis point increase in EBITDA margin? There are SO many more customers that are not diamonds that even if 90% of the largely empty threats on here are followed through, there will be little impact on Hyatt it seems. Good lord though...this thing is CHOCK FULL of empty corporate speak buzzwords. I would not say that going up 9 countries in coverage over 7 years is exactly "impressive." Although somehow they think they are going to go up at least 17 more countries in the next 3 years?? I would LOVE to see that but I highly doubt it.
I have said this before, and I stand by it now. The idea that you need to spend $20,000 to get Diamond is absurd. You company wide ADR is $182 a night (about what it was a few years ago from what I read, which is interesting). You want me to spend the equivalent of 110 nights a year at your company ADR to get Diamond??? That is ridiculous! The spend requirement is just way too high. I think if you are spending 10% more than the company wide ADR multiplied by 60 nights a year...that should be fine...i.e. $12k a year. Average of almost 17000 a year per Diamond means there have to be some SERIOUS outliers out there though. I mean, how many people spend that kind of money, even while doing nights? I broke 60 nights this year for the first time, and still spent about 40% LESS than the average.
Incidentally, page 6 shows you all you need to know about Hyatt in the last few years with the magic words..."since IPO."
Lot of interesting stuff in there. Shows a lot of strength in the hotel market and Hyatt specifically. No wonder they are willing to make these kind of changes. Do people think that Diamonds alone are driving stuff like a 600 basis point increase in owned/leased hotel margin and a 900 basis point increase in EBITDA margin? There are SO many more customers that are not diamonds that even if 90% of the largely empty threats on here are followed through, there will be little impact on Hyatt it seems. Good lord though...this thing is CHOCK FULL of empty corporate speak buzzwords. I would not say that going up 9 countries in coverage over 7 years is exactly "impressive." Although somehow they think they are going to go up at least 17 more countries in the next 3 years?? I would LOVE to see that but I highly doubt it.
I have said this before, and I stand by it now. The idea that you need to spend $20,000 to get Diamond is absurd. You company wide ADR is $182 a night (about what it was a few years ago from what I read, which is interesting). You want me to spend the equivalent of 110 nights a year at your company ADR to get Diamond??? That is ridiculous! The spend requirement is just way too high. I think if you are spending 10% more than the company wide ADR multiplied by 60 nights a year...that should be fine...i.e. $12k a year. Average of almost 17000 a year per Diamond means there have to be some SERIOUS outliers out there though. I mean, how many people spend that kind of money, even while doing nights? I broke 60 nights this year for the first time, and still spent about 40% LESS than the average.
Last edited by antonius66; Dec 29, 2016 at 2:55 pm
Dec 29, 2016, 2:49 pm
#2290
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston,Texas,USA
Programs: Starwood Gold, HH Diamond,Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 961
http://s2.q4cdn.com/278413729/files/...esentation.pdf
This covers many things, including WoH. They have glowing feedback on WoH from stakeholders, if you don't count guests as being stakeholders.
This covers many things, including WoH. They have glowing feedback on WoH from stakeholders, if you don't count guests as being stakeholders.
Booking with Amex FHR delivered me a beautiful suite last night at the Westin in Austin, along with breakfast , and a
$ 50.00 credit to apply. I will miss the DSU's but it's not the end of my world. It's sad really that their management bought into this WOH nonsense
Dec 29, 2016, 4:16 pm
#2291
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,987
As I recall from a similar pdf in 2013 or so, the average diamond was spending about 13k IIRC. Interesting. I think on average, the microcosm that is FT will have far less impact than they are telling themselves they will. There are definitely some parts of WoH that I do not like at all, so I am hoping there will be some changes and fixes though. I think the people who expect that Hyatt will collapse under the impact of tons of fleeing 25 night a year diamonds will be disappointed.
Incidentally, page 6 shows you all you need to know about Hyatt in the last few years with the magic words..."since IPO."
Lot of interesting stuff in there. Shows a lot of strength in the hotel market and Hyatt specifically. No wonder they are willing to make these kind of changes. Do people think that Diamonds alone are driving stuff like a 600 basis point increase in owned/leased hotel margin and a 900 basis point increase in EBITDA margin? There are SO many more customers that are not diamonds that even if 90% of the largely empty threats on here are followed through, there will be little impact on Hyatt it seems. Good lord though...this thing is CHOCK FULL of empty corporate speak buzzwords. I would not say that going up 9 countries in coverage over 7 years is exactly "impressive." Although somehow they think they are going to go up at least 17 more countries in the next 3 years?? I would LOVE to see that but I highly doubt it.
I have said this before, and I stand by it now. The idea that you need to spend $20,000 to get Diamond is absurd. You company wide ADR is $182 a night (about what it was a few years ago from what I read, which is interesting). You want me to spend the equivalent of 110 nights a year at your company ADR to get Diamond??? That is ridiculous! The spend requirement is just way too high. I think if you are spending 10% more than the company wide ADR multiplied by 60 nights a year...that should be fine...i.e. $12k a year. Average of almost 17000 a year per Diamond means there have to be some SERIOUS outliers out there though. I mean, how many people spend that kind of money, even while doing nights? I broke 60 nights this year for the first time, and still spent about 40% LESS than the average.
Incidentally, page 6 shows you all you need to know about Hyatt in the last few years with the magic words..."since IPO."
Lot of interesting stuff in there. Shows a lot of strength in the hotel market and Hyatt specifically. No wonder they are willing to make these kind of changes. Do people think that Diamonds alone are driving stuff like a 600 basis point increase in owned/leased hotel margin and a 900 basis point increase in EBITDA margin? There are SO many more customers that are not diamonds that even if 90% of the largely empty threats on here are followed through, there will be little impact on Hyatt it seems. Good lord though...this thing is CHOCK FULL of empty corporate speak buzzwords. I would not say that going up 9 countries in coverage over 7 years is exactly "impressive." Although somehow they think they are going to go up at least 17 more countries in the next 3 years?? I would LOVE to see that but I highly doubt it.
I have said this before, and I stand by it now. The idea that you need to spend $20,000 to get Diamond is absurd. You company wide ADR is $182 a night (about what it was a few years ago from what I read, which is interesting). You want me to spend the equivalent of 110 nights a year at your company ADR to get Diamond??? That is ridiculous! The spend requirement is just way too high. I think if you are spending 10% more than the company wide ADR multiplied by 60 nights a year...that should be fine...i.e. $12k a year. Average of almost 17000 a year per Diamond means there have to be some SERIOUS outliers out there though. I mean, how many people spend that kind of money, even while doing nights? I broke 60 nights this year for the first time, and still spent about 40% LESS than the average.
I have said this many times the equity capitol groups are sucking up all these properties and draining them. Witness the Waikiki Hyatt. Once owned by a Japanese businessman, great great property then sold to GS, who began to dismantle all the amenities, car was first to go, then closed the Colony, etc. No and I mean no exterior maintenance then sold to Blackstone who also sucked it dry all caught up and major major exterior work and infrastructure work needed. Now a Korean gentleman has bought it and we all including employees are collectively holding their breath. Blackstone/GS went about redoing the 3 floor area but shrank the pool, food and beverage just tanked here.
That my friends is equity capitol. I know because my company builds or reflags hotels as part of our business.
Dec 29, 2016, 4:34 pm
#2292
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,989
I have said this before, and I stand by it now. The idea that you need to spend $20,000 to get Diamond is absurd. You company wide ADR is $182 a night (about what it was a few years ago from what I read, which is interesting). You want me to spend the equivalent of 110 nights a year at your company ADR to get Diamond??? That is ridiculous! The spend requirement is just way too high. I think if you are spending 10% more than the company wide ADR multiplied by 60 nights a year...that should be fine...i.e. $12k a year. Average of almost 17000 a year per Diamond means there have to be some SERIOUS outliers out there though. I mean, how many people spend that kind of money, even while doing nights? I broke 60 nights this year for the first time, and still spent about 40% LESS than the average.
So they are selling Diamond-like benefits for peanuts to pull corporate volume. There is no way that their corporate customers are generating anywhere near the ADR, so there must be a huge group of suckers, for lack of a better word, who are paying full, un-discounted rack rates.
Dec 29, 2016, 4:48 pm
#2293
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,987
One of the corporate codes I am entitled to use gets club access or free breakfast and high-speed internet in Asia and gives a rate approx 35% better than the best prepaid rate.
So they are selling Diamond-like benefits for peanuts to pull corporate volume. There is no way that their corporate customers are generating anywhere near the ADR, so there must be a huge group of suckers, for lack of a better word, who are paying full, un-discounted rack rates.
So they are selling Diamond-like benefits for peanuts to pull corporate volume. There is no way that their corporate customers are generating anywhere near the ADR, so there must be a huge group of suckers, for lack of a better word, who are paying full, un-discounted rack rates.
Dec 29, 2016, 5:05 pm
#2294
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: BCT. Formerly known as attorney28
Programs: LH HON,BA GGL GfL,Hyatt LT Glob,Mrtt LT P,Hilt LT D,IC Amb,Acc P,GHA Tit,LHW Strlg,Sixt/Av/Hz D/Pres
Posts: 6,823
Dec 29, 2016, 7:03 pm
#2295
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, American Air, National Car
Posts: 1,131
I know we've rehashed all of the comparisons endlessly, but I'm left staring at:
SPG: 40 nights to Platinum (due to 10 nights via ccs, with no spend needed)
Hyatt: 60 nights to Diamond/Gist
Pretty significant difference for me, especially since award nights and multiple rooms count toward that 40.
50% more for somewhat comparable benefits.
SPG: 40 nights to Platinum (due to 10 nights via ccs, with no spend needed)
Hyatt: 60 nights to Diamond/Gist
Pretty significant difference for me, especially since award nights and multiple rooms count toward that 40.
50% more for somewhat comparable benefits.
