Jan 6, 2016, 2:55 pm
Last edit by: bhrubin
I have an upcoming stay and read the entire thread. I saw some common themes, and thought it would be useful to start a wiki. Please feel free to update or correct anything. I haven't stayed here, so the information is based on the contents of the thread:
- Diamond Suite Upgrades are NOT available at this property.
- Diamond members receive a complimentary full breakfast for up to 4 guests.
- The beds are very firm platform beds. I saw a few posts where a foam pad for the top of the bed was requested.
- Docked cruise ships that may obstruct the view from the Harbour view rooms.
- The hotel is 4 stories.
The concierge desk offers a weekly tour of the Rocks on Saturday.
Link that shows when cruise ships will be docked opposite the hotel:
https://www.portauthoritynsw.com.au/...ruise-schedule
Room Types and Floorplans:
https://www.scribd.com/document/3404...t-Sydney-Rooms
Expert Review posted in Luxury Forum: http://www.flyertalk.com/hotel-reviews/r-wonderful-park-hyatt-sydney-stay-and-city-harbor-view-with-a-few-caveats-1943
- Diamond Suite Upgrades are NOT available at this property.
- Diamond members receive a complimentary full breakfast for up to 4 guests.
- The beds are very firm platform beds. I saw a few posts where a foam pad for the top of the bed was requested.
- Docked cruise ships that may obstruct the view from the Harbour view rooms.
- The hotel is 4 stories.
The concierge desk offers a weekly tour of the Rocks on Saturday.
Link that shows when cruise ships will be docked opposite the hotel:
https://www.portauthoritynsw.com.au/...ruise-schedule
Room Types and Floorplans:
https://www.scribd.com/document/3404...t-Sydney-Rooms
Expert Review posted in Luxury Forum: http://www.flyertalk.com/hotel-reviews/r-wonderful-park-hyatt-sydney-stay-and-city-harbor-view-with-a-few-caveats-1943
Park Hyatt Sydney (Post-Reno) REVIEW - MASTER THREAD
Aug 12, 2012, 1:59 pm
#91
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP 3 MM
Posts: 4,576
Aug 13, 2012, 1:52 pm
#92
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: AA LT PLT 3 MM+, BA (very) Blue, CO nobody
Posts: 2,640
While this is a beautiful facility with outstanding service (we stayed here for 3 nights on Hyatt's CC Free nights) I would never pay those rates to stay there.
The location, IMO, is nowhere near as convenient as that of Four Seasons or Shangri La and comparable rooms can be had at either one of those hotels for roughly half the price without sacrificing any comforts; in fact, often better deals that include club/harbor/opera views AND breakfast can be had at 4 Seasons/Shangri La.
This is a hotel to stay at for points or on company's dime - not on my own.
JMO.
The location, IMO, is nowhere near as convenient as that of Four Seasons or Shangri La and comparable rooms can be had at either one of those hotels for roughly half the price without sacrificing any comforts; in fact, often better deals that include club/harbor/opera views AND breakfast can be had at 4 Seasons/Shangri La.
This is a hotel to stay at for points or on company's dime - not on my own.
JMO.
Aug 13, 2012, 9:36 pm
#93
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP 3 MM
Posts: 4,576
The standard rooms at the FS are tiny and would not be comparable to a standard room at the PH. Perhaps the junior suites could be comparable but they are well more than roughly half the cost of a standard room at the PH.
Aug 18, 2012, 12:09 pm
#94
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: AA LT PLT 3 MM+, BA (very) Blue, CO nobody
Posts: 2,640
PH - basic room 40 sq.m. @$960
FS - basic room 26 sq.m @ $413
Next category up:
PH - City Deluxe 75 sq.m. @ $1110 (Opera Deluxe @ $1440)
FS - Premier 53 sq.m. @ $623
So, a FS 53 sq.m. at $623 is 2/3 cost of a smaller PH 40 sq.m. room at $960.
In fact, when comparing these two rooms, the one at FS is exactly (not just roughly) half the price when priced /sq. m. ($12 vs $24/sq. m)
Personally, especially given the better location, I'll take the larger FS room for 2/3 price of the smaller PH room.
YMMV.
Last edited by Paulchili; Aug 18, 2012 at 2:14 pm
Aug 18, 2012, 11:46 pm
#95
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Programs: Qantas, Gold Passport, SPG
Posts: 104
PH Sydney is a very popular choice for Wedding Night guests. Hence there is very high demand and their average occupancy is over 90% and their average room rate double the nearest comparable property. Def a special occasion hotel.
I don't think it is valid to compare PH to any other Sydney property. PH is first, daylight is second. Even @ $1000 a night. Australia has not had a recession. There are plenty of people ready willing and able to pay that amount and more.
I don't think it is valid to compare PH to any other Sydney property. PH is first, daylight is second. Even @ $1000 a night. Australia has not had a recession. There are plenty of people ready willing and able to pay that amount and more.
Aug 19, 2012, 6:42 am
#96
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 308
Picking a random date (first weekend in March 2013):
PH - basic room 40 sq.m. @$960
FS - basic room 26 sq.m @ $413
Next category up:
PH - City Deluxe 75 sq.m. @ $1110 (Opera Deluxe @ $1440)
FS - Premier 53 sq.m. @ $623
So, a FS 53 sq.m. at $623 is 2/3 cost of a smaller PH 40 sq.m. room at $960.
In fact, when comparing these two rooms, the one at FS is exactly (not just roughly) half the price when priced /sq. m. ($12 vs $24/sq. m)
Personally, especially given the better location, I'll take the larger FS room for 2/3 price of the smaller PH room.
YMMV.
PH - basic room 40 sq.m. @$960
FS - basic room 26 sq.m @ $413
Next category up:
PH - City Deluxe 75 sq.m. @ $1110 (Opera Deluxe @ $1440)
FS - Premier 53 sq.m. @ $623
So, a FS 53 sq.m. at $623 is 2/3 cost of a smaller PH 40 sq.m. room at $960.
In fact, when comparing these two rooms, the one at FS is exactly (not just roughly) half the price when priced /sq. m. ($12 vs $24/sq. m)
Personally, especially given the better location, I'll take the larger FS room for 2/3 price of the smaller PH room.
YMMV.
Sep 11, 2012, 6:16 am
#97
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 164
I've got an upcoming stay at the PH Sydney in December as part of my honeymoon.
Would love to communicate that the the GM of the hotel, in hopes of a little special treatment that week.
Does anyone have his/her contact info?
If there is an easy place to find this on the Hyatt site, forgive me, i did poke around quite a bunch.
Would love to communicate that the the GM of the hotel, in hopes of a little special treatment that week.
Does anyone have his/her contact info?
If there is an easy place to find this on the Hyatt site, forgive me, i did poke around quite a bunch.
Sep 11, 2012, 6:24 am
#98
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Egham, Surrey, UK
Programs: Mucci Champion des Champions, BAG4L, *A Gold, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz Gold, Avis President
Posts: 3,416
I've got an upcoming stay at the PH Sydney in December as part of my honeymoon.
Would love to communicate that the the GM of the hotel, in hopes of a little special treatment that week.
Does anyone have his/her contact info?
If there is an easy place to find this on the Hyatt site, forgive me, i did poke around quite a bunch.
Would love to communicate that the the GM of the hotel, in hopes of a little special treatment that week.
Does anyone have his/her contact info?
If there is an easy place to find this on the Hyatt site, forgive me, i did poke around quite a bunch.
Great hotel and looking to stay there again in February 2013 but A$960 for the cheapest room rate does seem a little steep.
Sep 11, 2012, 6:43 am
#99
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SYD
Programs: QF WP (OWE), VA PLAT, EY GLD, SPG PLAT, Hyatt DIA, Hilton DIA, Hertz PC
Posts: 8,522
The GM is Andrew Mensforth - his email should be [email protected]
Great hotel and looking to stay there again in February 2013 but A$960 for the cheapest room rate does seem a little steep.
Great hotel and looking to stay there again in February 2013 but A$960 for the cheapest room rate does seem a little steep.
Sep 11, 2012, 7:32 am
#100
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP 3 MM
Posts: 4,576
Picking a random date (first weekend in March 2013):
PH - basic room 40 sq.m. @$960
FS - basic room 26 sq.m @ $413
Next category up:
PH - City Deluxe 75 sq.m. @ $1110 (Opera Deluxe @ $1440)
FS - Premier 53 sq.m. @ $623
So, a FS 53 sq.m. at $623 is 2/3 cost of a smaller PH 40 sq.m. room at $960.
In fact, when comparing these two rooms, the one at FS is exactly (not just roughly) half the price when priced /sq. m. ($12 vs $24/sq. m)
Personally, especially given the better location, I'll take the larger FS room for 2/3 price of the smaller PH room.
YMMV.
PH - basic room 40 sq.m. @$960
FS - basic room 26 sq.m @ $413
Next category up:
PH - City Deluxe 75 sq.m. @ $1110 (Opera Deluxe @ $1440)
FS - Premier 53 sq.m. @ $623
So, a FS 53 sq.m. at $623 is 2/3 cost of a smaller PH 40 sq.m. room at $960.
In fact, when comparing these two rooms, the one at FS is exactly (not just roughly) half the price when priced /sq. m. ($12 vs $24/sq. m)
Personally, especially given the better location, I'll take the larger FS room for 2/3 price of the smaller PH room.
YMMV.
Also, the FS is certainly not in the same class as the PH. Perhaps you should read the recent threads below with comments on how the FS Sydney is one of the worst in the chain:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...endations.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...ferrerid=14479
Sep 12, 2012, 8:33 am
#101
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary
Programs: A Few
Posts: 2,339
I've got 5 nights booked for February 2013 booked using Hyatt Stay Certificates. Using stay certificates brings the rate down to $319 USD. This is one the best hotels in the Hyatt network to use these.
Sep 12, 2012, 8:41 am
#102
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Egham, Surrey, UK
Programs: Mucci Champion des Champions, BAG4L, *A Gold, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz Gold, Avis President
Posts: 3,416
Do these stays still count against your qualifying stays and nights and earn GP points?
Sep 12, 2012, 9:58 am
#103
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Programs: | *G | STE | HGP ♦ | SPG Au | MR Au
Posts: 3,772
I have never used Gift Certificates. Looked at the T&C's on hyatt.com - so I can buy an Inspire Certificate at $319 per night and stay at the Park Hyatt Sydney? The web site gives very little detail - it says check participating hotels but I can't find a list. Also doesn't explain what the difference what the difference between Classic and Inspire - I guess they are the hotel grades?
Do these stays still count against your qualifying stays and nights and earn GP points?
Do these stays still count against your qualifying stays and nights and earn GP points?
Sep 12, 2012, 12:35 pm
#104
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary
Programs: A Few
Posts: 2,339
The code for the Inspire Certificate is - HSINN1 (for a 1 night cert).
The basic room offered is City Harbour King or Twin. I inquired about upgrading and was offered a confirmed upgrade in advance to any other room category for the current difference in price between room categories using the Hyatt Daily rate.
Sep 27, 2012, 7:38 pm
#105
Ambassador: World of Hyatt
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: San Diego,CA
Posts: 10,077
Hi All,
I thought I would share these mostly unpublished rates and consolidate this information for those who may be willing to pay full rack rate or just enjoy reading/reviewing the material for entertainment purposes. There is no way to access all the information otherwise without directly contacting the hotel
Please be aware Gold Passport members: That no member regardless of elite status can upgrade or pay to upgrade into these suites on points revenue or miles.
These premium suites are sold at full rack rate and fully non refundable with no changes no cancellations
Should anyone be intersted in reserving the Sydney Suite or other, please contact the hotel direct on +612 9256 1234 or [email protected]
Photos may be accessed online they didn't link sadly
Your Butler Awaits for your Luxury Experience
The Quay Suite
1 Bedroom Suite
Available on 1rst 2nd and 3rd floors
1291 Square Foot
3 Balconies Sydney Harbor and Part Opera House view
$2460.00 AU
Room Photos
Contemporary luxury greets all who step into this spacious 120 sqm suite, from the open plan design, architecturally designed bathroom and the three private balconies to partial views of the iconic Sydney Opera House, harbour and city skyline. One king bed boasts custom-made cotton linens, while residential amenities include three TVs, Bose digital music system, Nespresso coffee maker and round-the-clock butler service.
Amenities
• Separate sitting area
• 3 private balconies
• Enhanced work desk lighting
• Marble bath
• Iron/ironing board
• 24-hour room service
• Coffee maker
• Cable/satellite TV channels
• Satellite radio
• DVD player
• Three or more telephones
• Speakerphone
• High-speed Internet access
• Individual air conditioning control
• 24-hour concierge
• In-room safe
• Morning newspaper
• Crib upon request
• Maximum guests per room: 3
• Additional window(s) in bedroom(s)
• Oversized work desk
• Robes
• Hairdryer
• TV in bathroom
• Minibar
• 40 inch or larger TV
• Video on demand
• Stereo system
• Bose digital music system
• Dual line phones
• Voicemail
• Individual heat control
• Windows that open
• Private concierge
• Safe large enough to store and charge laptop computer
• Daily amenity
• Mineral water upon request
Roof Top Suite
1 bedroom
1528 sq ft 4th floor
Large terrace
Sydney Harbor city view Opera House
$3560.00 AU
Room Description
Room Photos
Contemporary luxury greets all who step into this spacious 142 sqm, fourth floor suite, from the open plan design, architecturally designed bathroom and large outdoor terrace to views of the Sydney Harbour and city skyline. One king bed boasts custom-made cotton linens, while residential amenities include three TVs, Bose digital music system, Nespresso coffee maker and round-the-clock butler service.
Amenities
• Kitchenette
• Additional window(s) in bedroom(s)
• Separate work area
• Enhanced work desk lighting
• Marble bath
• Iron/ironing board
• 24-hour room service
• Coffee maker
• Cable/satellite TV channels
• Satellite radio
• DVD player
• Three or more telephones
• Speakerphone
• High-speed Internet access
• Individual air conditioning control
• 24-hour concierge
• In-room safe
• Morning newspaper
• Crib upon request
• Maximum guests per room: 3
• Separate sitting area
• Outdoor terrace (50sqm/538sqft)
• Oversized work desk
• Robes
• Hairdryer
• TV in bathroom
• Minibar
• 40 inch or larger TV
• Video on demand
• Stereo system
• Bose digital music system
• Dual line phones
• Voicemail
• Individual heat control
• Windows that open
• Private concierge
• Safe large enough to store and charge laptop computer
• Daily amenity
• Mineral water upon request
Harbor Suite
1560 sq ft 5560 AU opera house views
$5560.00 AU
Harbour Suite
Room Photos
Contemporary luxury greets all who step into this spacious 145 sqm suite, from the open plan design, architecturally designed bathroom and four private balconies to views of the iconic Sydney Opera House and harbour. One king bed boasts custom-made cotton linens, while residential amenities include three TVs, Bose digital music system, Nespresso coffee maker and round-the-clock butler service.
Amenities
• Separate sitting area
• 4 private balconies
• Enhanced work desk lighting
• Robes
• Iron/ironing board
• 24-hour room service
• Coffee maker
• Cable/satellite TV channels
• Satellite radio
• DVD player
• Three or more telephones
• Speakerphone
• High-speed Internet access
• Individual air conditioning control
• 24-hour concierge
• In-room safe
• Morning newspaper
• Crib upon request
• Maximum guests per room: 3
• Additional window(s) in bedroom(s)
• Oversized work desk
• Marble bath
• Hairdryer
• TV in bathroom
• Minibar
• 40 inch or larger TV
• Video on demand
• Stereo system
• Bose digital music system
• Dual line phones
• Voicemail
• Individual heat control
• Windows that open
• Private concierge
• Safe large enough to store and charge laptop computer
• Daily amenity
• Mineral water upon request
• May be sold as a two bedroom suite (additional charges apply)
Sydney Suite
The ultimate roof top accommodations and fantasy accommodation
8000 square foot !!!
For the VIP and celebrity in you or your own mind
Look what a mere 16 k gets you for a single night!
$16,000.00 AU
Room Photos
Contemporary luxury greets all who step into this palatial 350-sqm, fourth-floor, two-bedroom suite, from the open plan design, architecturally designed master bathroom and outdoor terrace to panoramic views of the iconic Sydney Opera House, harbour and bridge. King bed in master bedroom, with either one king or two twin beds in second room, all boasting custom-made cotton linens, while residential amenities include five TVs with 60-inch LED TV in living room, sauna, fireplace, indoor and outdoor dining area for 8, modern kitchen and round-the-clock butler service.
Amenities
• Patio
• Additional window(s) in bedroom(s)
• Full kitchen
• Oversized work desk
• Robes
• Spa tub
• Iron/ironing board
• TV in bathroom
• 24-hour room service
• Coffee maker
• Dining table for 8 (indoor and outdoor)
• Video on demand
• Stereo system
• VCR
• Three or more telephones
• Speakerphone
• High-speed Internet access
• Individual air conditioning control
• 24-hour concierge
• Crib upon request
• In-room safe
• Mineral water upon request
• Safe large enough to store and charge laptop computer
• Separate sitting area
• Outdoor terrace (93 sqm or 1000 sq ft)
• Separate work area
• Enhanced work desk lighting
• Marble bath
• Hairdryer
• Additional window in bathroom
• Room service during regular hours
• Minibar
• 40 inch or larger TV
• Cable/satellite TV channels
• Satellite radio
• DVD player
• Bose digital music system
• Dual line phones
• Voicemail
• Individual heat control
• Windows that open
• Private concierge
• Daily amenity
• Maximum guests per room: 5
• Morning newspaper
I thought I would share these mostly unpublished rates and consolidate this information for those who may be willing to pay full rack rate or just enjoy reading/reviewing the material for entertainment purposes. There is no way to access all the information otherwise without directly contacting the hotel
Please be aware Gold Passport members: That no member regardless of elite status can upgrade or pay to upgrade into these suites on points revenue or miles.
These premium suites are sold at full rack rate and fully non refundable with no changes no cancellations
Should anyone be intersted in reserving the Sydney Suite or other, please contact the hotel direct on +612 9256 1234 or [email protected]
Photos may be accessed online they didn't link sadly
Your Butler Awaits for your Luxury Experience
The Quay Suite
1 Bedroom Suite
Available on 1rst 2nd and 3rd floors
1291 Square Foot
3 Balconies Sydney Harbor and Part Opera House view
$2460.00 AU
Room Photos
Contemporary luxury greets all who step into this spacious 120 sqm suite, from the open plan design, architecturally designed bathroom and the three private balconies to partial views of the iconic Sydney Opera House, harbour and city skyline. One king bed boasts custom-made cotton linens, while residential amenities include three TVs, Bose digital music system, Nespresso coffee maker and round-the-clock butler service.
Amenities
• Separate sitting area
• 3 private balconies
• Enhanced work desk lighting
• Marble bath
• Iron/ironing board
• 24-hour room service
• Coffee maker
• Cable/satellite TV channels
• Satellite radio
• DVD player
• Three or more telephones
• Speakerphone
• High-speed Internet access
• Individual air conditioning control
• 24-hour concierge
• In-room safe
• Morning newspaper
• Crib upon request
• Maximum guests per room: 3
• Additional window(s) in bedroom(s)
• Oversized work desk
• Robes
• Hairdryer
• TV in bathroom
• Minibar
• 40 inch or larger TV
• Video on demand
• Stereo system
• Bose digital music system
• Dual line phones
• Voicemail
• Individual heat control
• Windows that open
• Private concierge
• Safe large enough to store and charge laptop computer
• Daily amenity
• Mineral water upon request
Roof Top Suite
1 bedroom
1528 sq ft 4th floor
Large terrace
Sydney Harbor city view Opera House
$3560.00 AU
Room Description
Room Photos
Contemporary luxury greets all who step into this spacious 142 sqm, fourth floor suite, from the open plan design, architecturally designed bathroom and large outdoor terrace to views of the Sydney Harbour and city skyline. One king bed boasts custom-made cotton linens, while residential amenities include three TVs, Bose digital music system, Nespresso coffee maker and round-the-clock butler service.
Amenities
• Kitchenette
• Additional window(s) in bedroom(s)
• Separate work area
• Enhanced work desk lighting
• Marble bath
• Iron/ironing board
• 24-hour room service
• Coffee maker
• Cable/satellite TV channels
• Satellite radio
• DVD player
• Three or more telephones
• Speakerphone
• High-speed Internet access
• Individual air conditioning control
• 24-hour concierge
• In-room safe
• Morning newspaper
• Crib upon request
• Maximum guests per room: 3
• Separate sitting area
• Outdoor terrace (50sqm/538sqft)
• Oversized work desk
• Robes
• Hairdryer
• TV in bathroom
• Minibar
• 40 inch or larger TV
• Video on demand
• Stereo system
• Bose digital music system
• Dual line phones
• Voicemail
• Individual heat control
• Windows that open
• Private concierge
• Safe large enough to store and charge laptop computer
• Daily amenity
• Mineral water upon request
Harbor Suite
1560 sq ft 5560 AU opera house views
$5560.00 AU
Harbour Suite
Room Photos
Contemporary luxury greets all who step into this spacious 145 sqm suite, from the open plan design, architecturally designed bathroom and four private balconies to views of the iconic Sydney Opera House and harbour. One king bed boasts custom-made cotton linens, while residential amenities include three TVs, Bose digital music system, Nespresso coffee maker and round-the-clock butler service.
Amenities
• Separate sitting area
• 4 private balconies
• Enhanced work desk lighting
• Robes
• Iron/ironing board
• 24-hour room service
• Coffee maker
• Cable/satellite TV channels
• Satellite radio
• DVD player
• Three or more telephones
• Speakerphone
• High-speed Internet access
• Individual air conditioning control
• 24-hour concierge
• In-room safe
• Morning newspaper
• Crib upon request
• Maximum guests per room: 3
• Additional window(s) in bedroom(s)
• Oversized work desk
• Marble bath
• Hairdryer
• TV in bathroom
• Minibar
• 40 inch or larger TV
• Video on demand
• Stereo system
• Bose digital music system
• Dual line phones
• Voicemail
• Individual heat control
• Windows that open
• Private concierge
• Safe large enough to store and charge laptop computer
• Daily amenity
• Mineral water upon request
• May be sold as a two bedroom suite (additional charges apply)
Sydney Suite
The ultimate roof top accommodations and fantasy accommodation
8000 square foot !!!
For the VIP and celebrity in you or your own mind
Look what a mere 16 k gets you for a single night!
$16,000.00 AU
Room Photos
Contemporary luxury greets all who step into this palatial 350-sqm, fourth-floor, two-bedroom suite, from the open plan design, architecturally designed master bathroom and outdoor terrace to panoramic views of the iconic Sydney Opera House, harbour and bridge. King bed in master bedroom, with either one king or two twin beds in second room, all boasting custom-made cotton linens, while residential amenities include five TVs with 60-inch LED TV in living room, sauna, fireplace, indoor and outdoor dining area for 8, modern kitchen and round-the-clock butler service.
Amenities
• Patio
• Additional window(s) in bedroom(s)
• Full kitchen
• Oversized work desk
• Robes
• Spa tub
• Iron/ironing board
• TV in bathroom
• 24-hour room service
• Coffee maker
• Dining table for 8 (indoor and outdoor)
• Video on demand
• Stereo system
• VCR
• Three or more telephones
• Speakerphone
• High-speed Internet access
• Individual air conditioning control
• 24-hour concierge
• Crib upon request
• In-room safe
• Mineral water upon request
• Safe large enough to store and charge laptop computer
• Separate sitting area
• Outdoor terrace (93 sqm or 1000 sq ft)
• Separate work area
• Enhanced work desk lighting
• Marble bath
• Hairdryer
• Additional window in bathroom
• Room service during regular hours
• Minibar
• 40 inch or larger TV
• Cable/satellite TV channels
• Satellite radio
• DVD player
• Bose digital music system
• Dual line phones
• Voicemail
• Individual heat control
• Windows that open
• Private concierge
• Daily amenity
• Maximum guests per room: 5
• Morning newspaper
Last edited by 777 global mile hound; Sep 27, 2012 at 7:50 pm