St. Regis / Starwood - $20-$40/night in Nov. 2015
May 31, 2014, 12:34 pm
#91
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
As I've said. Anyone who thinks they have a case post the claim details here. No one will. It's all bluster and it gets very boring very quickly.
The major downside comes when someone who isn't experienced in the law gets totally screwed following the advice of the "let's get 'em" crowd on this forum. Starwood emails sent to customers across multiple properties in this instance show that it is being managed centrally. There will be hundreds of bookings and there is no way on earth they will want to settle lest it gets out and they have to honour millions of dollars worth. Starwood don't give two hoots about the cost or the publicity( of which there will be non). Outside of this strange world we on this forum inhabit no-one gives a damn.
The major downside comes when someone who isn't experienced in the law gets totally screwed following the advice of the "let's get 'em" crowd on this forum. Starwood emails sent to customers across multiple properties in this instance show that it is being managed centrally. There will be hundreds of bookings and there is no way on earth they will want to settle lest it gets out and they have to honour millions of dollars worth. Starwood don't give two hoots about the cost or the publicity( of which there will be non). Outside of this strange world we on this forum inhabit no-one gives a damn.
Just because you are unaware of those cases does not mean they don't exist.
Just earlier this year SPG reverted their one of their cancellation decisions. Blanket email to cancel, some consumers put up a fight and a very fair resolution was found for all parties.
May 31, 2014, 12:39 pm
#92
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
my beef in this whole thing, whether it is LX, EY or SPG, is the unfairness and onesidedness of the approach to business.
I book a non-refundable hotel in Birmingham, England, but meant to book Birmingham, AL, I am on the hook for the full amount. Hotels make a mistake and reserve the right to correct the mistake at no cost to them.
I book a flight for 7/6/14 but meant to book for 6/7/14, I am on the hook.
If travel providers were to give us the same rights they demand for themselves, I would be very understanding and forgiving of mistake fares/rates. But not like this.
I book a non-refundable hotel in Birmingham, England, but meant to book Birmingham, AL, I am on the hook for the full amount. Hotels make a mistake and reserve the right to correct the mistake at no cost to them.
I book a flight for 7/6/14 but meant to book for 6/7/14, I am on the hook.
If travel providers were to give us the same rights they demand for themselves, I would be very understanding and forgiving of mistake fares/rates. But not like this.
May 31, 2014, 12:45 pm
#93
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: England
Programs: BA, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Diamond, KLM Gold, AB Gold, Accor Plat, BW Diamond, Qantas Svr, Etihad Svr
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtibbs1999
As I've said. Anyone who thinks they have a case post the claim details here. No one will. It's all bluster and it gets very boring very quickly.
The major downside comes when someone who isn't experienced in the law gets totally screwed following the advice of the "let's get 'em" crowd on this forum. Starwood emails sent to customers across multiple properties in this instance show that it is being managed centrally. There will be hundreds of bookings and there is no way on earth they will want to settle lest it gets out and they have to honour millions of dollars worth. Starwood don't give two hoots about the cost or the publicity( of which there will be non). Outside of this strange world we on this forum inhabit no-one gives a damn.
Sadly, you have no clue what you are talking about. There are numerous examples of consumers standing up for their rights/reservations and the US legal system (either via court order or mediation) resolves this in our favor. I know of 10+ cases and I am sure there are many more.
Just because you are unaware of those cases does not mean they don't exist.
Just earlier this year SPG reverted their one of their cancellation decisions. Blanket email to cancel, some consumers put up a fight and a very fair resolution was found for all parties.
Originally Posted by mrtibbs1999
As I've said. Anyone who thinks they have a case post the claim details here. No one will. It's all bluster and it gets very boring very quickly.
The major downside comes when someone who isn't experienced in the law gets totally screwed following the advice of the "let's get 'em" crowd on this forum. Starwood emails sent to customers across multiple properties in this instance show that it is being managed centrally. There will be hundreds of bookings and there is no way on earth they will want to settle lest it gets out and they have to honour millions of dollars worth. Starwood don't give two hoots about the cost or the publicity( of which there will be non). Outside of this strange world we on this forum inhabit no-one gives a damn.
Sadly, you have no clue what you are talking about. There are numerous examples of consumers standing up for their rights/reservations and the US legal system (either via court order or mediation) resolves this in our favor. I know of 10+ cases and I am sure there are many more.
Just because you are unaware of those cases does not mean they don't exist.
Just earlier this year SPG reverted their one of their cancellation decisions. Blanket email to cancel, some consumers put up a fight and a very fair resolution was found for all parties.
May 31, 2014, 1:18 pm
#94
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 353
No plans for any of this - Tried to find thread, but same scenario on flyertalk several years back - can't remember if it was Arizona or California Desert resort, think hotel ended up honoring res for some, but not others depending on booking site. Remember at least one writing about experience in small claims where they were successful.
May 31, 2014, 1:32 pm
#95
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: EWR
Posts: 680
May 31, 2014, 1:48 pm
#96
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,320
St. Regis / Starwood - $20-$40/night in Nov. 2015
so some people act like entitled a- holes and a company gives in because it's not worth it. that doesn't make your theory of entitlement morally or legally defensive.
May 31, 2014, 2:37 pm
#97
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: EWR
Programs: AA, Delta, NWA,HHonors, Hyatt BF
Posts: 1,762
May 31, 2014, 4:53 pm
#98
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
You should know well that settlement agreements are often encompassed with an NDA.
I am not advising anybody to litigate. I am advising people not to listen to your posts.
There are clear judgments/reports/settlements that 100% contradict your position.
May 31, 2014, 4:54 pm
#99
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
May 31, 2014, 4:59 pm
#100
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
May 31, 2014, 6:43 pm
#101
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Programs: AA Gold, Starwood Gold
Posts: 125
my beef in this whole thing, whether it is LX, EY or SPG, is the unfairness and onesidedness of the approach to business.
I book a non-refundable hotel in Birmingham, England, but meant to book Birmingham, AL, I am on the hook for the full amount. Hotels make a mistake and reserve the right to correct the mistake at no cost to them.
I book a flight for 7/6/14 but meant to book for 6/7/14, I am on the hook.
If travel providers were to give us the same rights they demand for themselves, I would be very understanding and forgiving of mistake fares/rates. But not like this.
I book a non-refundable hotel in Birmingham, England, but meant to book Birmingham, AL, I am on the hook for the full amount. Hotels make a mistake and reserve the right to correct the mistake at no cost to them.
I book a flight for 7/6/14 but meant to book for 6/7/14, I am on the hook.
If travel providers were to give us the same rights they demand for themselves, I would be very understanding and forgiving of mistake fares/rates. But not like this.
May 31, 2014, 6:46 pm
#102
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Big +1 on this. The lawyers can debate it out over legalese, but many companies, including SPG, have not been forgiving about any mistakes on the part of the consumer. I could especially see if you had been one of those consumers that this would really rub you the wrong way.
May 31, 2014, 6:58 pm
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,753
my beef in this whole thing, whether it is LX, EY or SPG, is the unfairness and onesidedness of the approach to business.
I book a non-refundable hotel in Birmingham, England, but meant to book Birmingham, AL, I am on the hook for the full amount. Hotels make a mistake and reserve the right to correct the mistake at no cost to them.
I book a flight for 7/6/14 but meant to book for 6/7/14, I am on the hook.
If travel providers were to give us the same rights they demand for themselves, I would be very understanding and forgiving of mistake fares/rates. But not like this.
I book a non-refundable hotel in Birmingham, England, but meant to book Birmingham, AL, I am on the hook for the full amount. Hotels make a mistake and reserve the right to correct the mistake at no cost to them.
I book a flight for 7/6/14 but meant to book for 6/7/14, I am on the hook.
If travel providers were to give us the same rights they demand for themselves, I would be very understanding and forgiving of mistake fares/rates. But not like this.
Big +1 on this. The lawyers can debate it out over legalese, but many companies, including SPG, have not been forgiving about any mistakes on the part of the consumer. I could especially see if you had been one of those consumers that this would really rub you the wrong way.
So what the court is protecting against is situations where one side has made a mistake and doesn't realize it, but the other side does know that it's a mistake and tries to take advantage of it. And, yes, these transactions are of the sort that the hotel/airline is never going to know that we've made a mistake when we don't. That's the structural nature of consumer transactions.
May 31, 2014, 8:32 pm
#104
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: IHG Diamond Elite, Hilton Diamond, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 3,531
No plans for any of this - Tried to find thread, but same scenario on flyertalk several years back - can't remember if it was Arizona or California Desert resort, think hotel ended up honoring res for some, but not others depending on booking site. Remember at least one writing about experience in small claims where they were successful.
For those of you who THINK you could not win a case against Starwood, you are wrong. There's already case history on this. Start reading around post 601. You've got a lot to read (and retract for thinking you couldn't). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hotel...nta-ca-41.html
Last edited by CalItalian; May 31, 2014 at 8:48 pm
May 31, 2014, 9:48 pm
#105
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Or they could decide not to waste their time showing up at all. Nearly all small claims procedures allow the defendant (Starwood in this case) to appeal an adverse small claims judgment to the regular court system and start from scratch. In that case, you, not Starwood, would have wasted that first day in court.
Au contraire. I get a default judgment, and then an order directing the sheriff to go to the cash register at the nearest Sheraton. Of course, SPG can appeal, but they will then be spending $$$$ for lawyers and filing fees (Superior Court fees are steep compared to Small Claims). There is no requirement that I respond to the appeal - in which case the Court can simply dismiss the case. Either way SPG loses $$$ - it's just a question of who they pay.
No need to be condescending. I know nothing about California law and procedure; however, in Massachusetts the defendant in a Small Claims case has the right to appeal to the regular (Superior or District) court system. There the case is handled like a new case, as if it had never been in Small Claims. And you are still the plaintiff. Except now you have procedural and evidentiary rules with which to comply, pleadings, discovery, etc. I somehow doubt that the average FT member knows what to do with Interrogatories.
And you're right, -- there's no requirement that you respond to the appeal at this level. But since it's a new lawsuit and the Small Claims case effectively doesn't exist, if you fail to respond you will be defaulted with no further appeal or other mechanism for changing the default. What's more, if you fail to show up or pursue your claim (i.e., default) at that level and Starwood wins by default, it may ask for and receive counsel fees for your making them pay a lawyer to go to court unnecessarily. So if the court grants Starwood's request for fees, you would be paying Starwood's attorney fees.
So not only would Starwood get a new trial if it loses in the Small Claims process, but 1) you would be subject to compliance with discovery formalities and all of the technical rules (of which you are most likely unaware if you're not a lawyer), 2) if you fail in compliance with all of the procedural rules you are subject to losing your case for that reason alone, 3) if you lose at this level you're completely finished, -- no further appeals of any sort.
So, were I Starwood's counsel, I might consider advising them to ignore the Small Claims process completely and not waste their money. Then take the appeal for a new trial in the regular court system and send you some discovery.
Last edited by Dr. HFH; May 31, 2014 at 10:15 pm