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-   -   Hong Kong Civil Unrest - Survival Guide Q&As (Flame Free) (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hong-kong-macau/1990597-hong-kong-civil-unrest-survival-guide-q-flame-free.html)

helvetic Nov 8, 2019 3:03 am


Originally Posted by 889 (Post 31713276)
Anyone who uber-confidently predicts what's going to be happening the next few months in Hong Kong is either very brave or very dumb. Nobody but nobody knows.

Anybody who uber-confidently predicts what was going to be happening the next few months in NYC is also either very brave or very dumb. Nobody knows the future.

Doesn't mean one can't make generalization based on what is exceedingly unlikely.

HK could also get hit by a comet blowing the whole city to pieces. You can't say for sure that it won't happen, so maybe we should advise people to avoid HK due to the comet-related risks.

Oh and while we're at it, nobody should visit in summer because it's typhoon season.

garykung Nov 8, 2019 3:38 pm


Originally Posted by rjh (Post 31712429)
Ok, based on two recent transit only experiences I believe this text is stronger than needed. My proposal:
8. TRANSIT HKG at AIRPORT AIRSIDE:
Generally not an issue and all services, including shops and lounges, are operating normally while remaining airside. No additional security. No need to go landside.

There has been disruption in the past and it may happen again, but as of this writing there is no reason to avoid HKG for transit, while airside only.


Originally Posted by kevincrumbs (Post 31713012)
I think for airside even the word "generally" gives an impression that while rare, something may/could happen. The reality is that nothing has happened to disrupt airside to airside connections, as far as I'm aware. IMHO dropping "generally" is a better reflection of the situation.

Considered. But I don't believe the current language is stronger than needed.

rjh Nov 9, 2019 9:16 am


Originally Posted by garykung (Post 31716770)
Considered. But I don't believe the current language is stronger than needed.

I just noticed that there are two items numbered "8." This refers to the 2nd about transit.

My concern is that the the current language is misleading and not consistent with current experience. I personally have four data points. I saw many others in the transit queue having a normal experience. I didn't hang around to count, but obviously 1000s are transiting normally each day.


It is entirely up to you.
Always the case. Suggest deleting.


Since the shut down on August 13, 2019, HKG has significantly tightened its security and heavily restricted its access. The High Court of Hong Kong has imposed an injunction against any non-legitimate use of the airport. In theory, there is no reason why you can't transit at HKG without issue.

However, keep in mind that airport/airline employees do not generally live/stay nearby. Their access may/can be impacted by the unrest, resulting a domino effect that eventually impact flight operations at HKG.
People considering HKG as a airside transit point only, as I was, need information consistent with actual experience to make practical decisions.

For months there has not been an airside interruption. The concern expressed in the current language, while theoretical possible, is at odds with facts on the ground. Restaurants, shops, and lounges are operating normally. The strong probability is that airside transit won't be affected and the language here, to be useful, should reflect that.

I'm certainly open to counter arguments, but right now I don't know what they would be.

Flying Yazata Nov 9, 2019 2:30 pm

Well, the whole HK debacle began after I had done my routing and booking, so I'm totally coincidentally going to be doing HKG-SZX by land next Sunday. And since my flight has today been changed to another one, I'm tempted to push for a faster transit between the airports, via the landborder, eventhough it's going to be on a Sunday.

So the question is how tight can I keep my transit time from gate to gate as a foreigner (HK visa free, CN with visa) in the current circumstances? If I would choose a more convenient connection, I would have 4:15 between my flights and I only have carry-on. Otherwise I will have some 9,5 hrs, which is pretty much for getting from HKG to SZX, taken there's probably not a meaningful lounge at SZX. OTOH, I could probably spend that time in downtown Shenzhen doing something.

This fast routing seems to be doable in terms of current MTR operations, but not sure if it's doable on a Sunday afternoon? First MTR Airport Express from HKG to West Kowloon station. Then XRL to Futian and change to the metroline 11 for SZX. As there's no suitable CKS catamaran departing around my arrival at HKG and a shared minibus ride feels a bit of an unwarranted expenditure (...says a cheapskate inbound in C :p ), the fastest possible public transport by land feels like the best bet. Or would perhaps that shared minibus be the only viable option to push for a transit within that assumed timeframe of 4:15?

Many thanks in advance for any constructive input you may have!

garykung Nov 9, 2019 4:08 pm


Originally Posted by rjh (Post 31718902)
My concern is that the the current language is misleading and not consistent with current experience. I personally have four data points. I saw many others in the transit queue having a normal experience. I didn't hang around to count, but obviously 1000s are transiting normally each day.

The Q&As are not constructed based on personal experience, but unbiased news information. The problem with experience is it is always biased.

I am not saying you are wrong with your experience. And your experience can turn out very true that there would be no interruption after all. However, in light of the heavy security and the court injunction, one can't logically believe the possibility is not there. So as a balancing act, I simply present the fact, not opinion about HKG operations.


Originally Posted by rjh (Post 31718902)
Always the case. Suggest deleting.

You will be surprised that even something is obvious, it is not necessary that everyone knows.


Originally Posted by Flying Yazata (Post 31719780)
This fast routing seems to be doable in terms of current MTR operations, but not sure if it's doable on a Sunday afternoon? First MTR Airport Express from HKG to West Kowloon station. Then XRL to Futian and change to the metroline 11 for SZX. As there's no suitable CKS catamaran departing around my arrival at HKG and a shared minibus ride feels a bit of an unwarranted expenditure (...says a cheapskate inbound in C :p ), the fastest possible public transport by land feels like the best bet. Or would perhaps that shared minibus be the only viable option to push for a transit within that assumed timeframe of 4:15?

Even without the civil unrest, this is one of the worst way to transit, as Kowloon Station is not exactly near the CRH station.

What you should do is go to T2 for the Mainland Coaches. Because they travel on major expressways, they are not usually affected by the unrest.

889 Nov 9, 2019 5:02 pm

The airport grounds and the Airport Express right-of-way have not been sealed off. The sort of folks who are doing the sort of things being done in Mongkok are perfectly capable of figuring out how to bring trouble back to Lantau if they ever decide to go that route again. Let's not talk details. We should accept that risk remains, including risk of cancelled flights for transit passengers, so long as there's trouble in Hong Kong.

tentseller Nov 9, 2019 5:30 pm


Originally Posted by 889 (Post 31720130)
The airport grounds and the Airport Express right-of-way have not been sealed off. The sort of folks who are doing the sort of things being done in Mongkok are perfectly capable of figuring out how to bring trouble back to Lantau if they ever decide to go that route again. Let's not talk details. We should accept that risk remains, including risk of cancelled flights for transit passengers, so long as there's trouble in Hong Kong.

You are correct that it is possible for a major airport disruptions to happen but do you think it is probable?

889 Nov 9, 2019 5:51 pm

What is "probable"? Further trouble on Lantau is well within the realm of possibility. Who can possibly say anything more.

To repeat once again, the protests have no leadership. No votes are taken. Things just happen. A small group not a mob could interfere with flights. Senseless, but look at what is happening elsewhere in the city.

garykung Nov 9, 2019 6:16 pm


Originally Posted by tentseller (Post 31720184)
You are correct that it is possible for a major airport disruptions to happen but do you think it is probable?

It has happened before. So it’s probability is definitely higher than something that has never happened before.

helvetic Nov 10, 2019 1:06 am


Originally Posted by Flying Yazata (Post 31719780)
Well, the whole HK debacle began after I had done my routing and booking, so I'm totally coincidentally going to be doing HKG-SZX by land next Sunday. And since my flight has today been changed to another one, I'm tempted to push for a faster transit between the airports, via the landborder, eventhough it's going to be on a Sunday.

So the question is how tight can I keep my transit time from gate to gate as a foreigner (HK visa free, CN with visa) in the current circumstances? If I would choose a more convenient connection, I would have 4:15 between my flights and I only have carry-on. Otherwise I will have some 9,5 hrs, which is pretty much for getting from HKG to SZX, taken there's probably not a meaningful lounge at SZX. OTOH, I could probably spend that time in downtown Shenzhen doing something.

This fast routing seems to be doable in terms of current MTR operations, but not sure if it's doable on a Sunday afternoon? First MTR Airport Express from HKG to West Kowloon station. Then XRL to Futian and change to the metroline 11 for SZX. As there's no suitable CKS catamaran departing around my arrival at HKG and a shared minibus ride feels a bit of an unwarranted expenditure (...says a cheapskate inbound in C :p ), the fastest possible public transport by land feels like the best bet. Or would perhaps that shared minibus be the only viable option to push for a transit within that assumed timeframe of 4:15?

Many thanks in advance for any constructive input you may have!

Why not take one of the ferries from the SkyPier at HKIA?

helvetic Nov 10, 2019 1:09 am


Originally Posted by 889 (Post 31720130)
The airport grounds and the Airport Express right-of-way have not been sealed off. The sort of folks who are doing the sort of things being done in Mongkok are perfectly capable of figuring out how to bring trouble back to Lantau if they ever decide to go that route again. Let's not talk details. We should accept that risk remains, including risk of cancelled flights for transit passengers, so long as there's trouble in Hong Kong.

It's equally possible for something like this to happen at SFO, and yet we don't see a "San Francisco survival guide" talking about the potential risk for transit disruption due to airport unrest. It's about equally as likely.

This guide is supposed to be objective unbiased information, not fear mongering — that's the media's job.

The risk of disruption is not commensurate with the strong wording of the warning.

Flying Yazata Nov 10, 2019 3:23 am


Originally Posted by garykung (Post 31720020)
What you should do is go to T2 for the Mainland Coaches. Because they travel on major expressways, they are not usually affected by the unrest.

Hmm, how much time should I reserve for that option?


Originally Posted by helvetic (Post 31720902)
Why not take one of the ferries from the SkyPier at HKIA?

Notice what I said about CKS' catamaran timetable. There's four departures per day and none of them matches my timing. And it's not exactly efficient to travel to SZX via Macau, so the other company isn't feasible.

garykung Nov 10, 2019 7:01 pm


Originally Posted by helvetic (Post 31720908)
It's equally possible for something like this to happen at SFO, and yet we don't see a "San Francisco survival guide" talking about the potential risk for transit disruption due to airport unrest. It's about equally as likely.

I seriously doubt that is true. If such happened, I would be the first creating something like that.


Originally Posted by Flying Yazata (Post 31721107)
Hmm, how much time should I reserve for that option?

I would have to say 3 hours should be more than sufficient.

The problem with this option is coach change at Shenzhen Bay and the border-crossing (Note - while your coach ticket is a through ticket, it is the practice of every operator to re-consolidate their passengers after the border crossing. So you may not end up the same coach you board at HKG.)

Flying Yazata Nov 11, 2019 1:15 am


Originally Posted by garykung (Post 31723229)
I would have to say 3 hours should be more than sufficient.

The problem with this option is coach change at Shenzhen Bay and the border-crossing (Note - while your coach ticket is a through ticket, it is the practice of every operator to re-consolidate their passengers after the border crossing. So you may not end up the same coach you board at HKG.)

Okay, I'll get my CX flight changed and hope that 4:15 from gate to gate will be doable on Sunday. :) Will try to get ASAP to the coach ticket counters in T1 at HKG. Thanks for the input!

MW147 Nov 11, 2019 8:53 am


Originally Posted by helvetic (Post 31720908)
It's equally possible for something like this to happen at SFO.

No it's not. Not even close.

I have never lived in HK but I been traveling there for over 30 years, as recently as last month. We are now approaching 6 months of unrest. A couple of weeks ago it seemed to be calming down a bit with protests basically limited to Sunday 2 weeks in a row, but now it has flared up in a big way. As someone who has a lot of affection for HK, I find this all very disturbing. I just don't know how this ever ends. I would still go to HK for business (my next trip will be April 2020) but at this point I absolutely would not go there on holiday. It's a shame. I feel for HK residents.


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