Hilton vs. Marriott Vacation Clubs
Sep 4, 2003, 12:55 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: IAD/DCA
Programs: UA 1K and Million Miler; Marriott Lifetime Platinum Premier
Posts: 376
Hilton vs. Marriott Vacation Clubs
After 20 years with Marriott I've recently switched my loyalty to Hilton and plan to purchase a Hilton Grand Vacation Club week in order to supplement my vacation options. I already own two Marriott properties and plan to liquidate those. But before I do, does anyone have anybody -- especially former Marriott owners -- have any insights for me that may be helpful to me in making an informed decision? After comparing the two programs, I've discovered Hiltom Diamond is far easier to reach than Marriott platinum but other features of the two programs are quite similar. But I was impressed with the flexibility of coordinating timeshare credits with the Honors progam. Thanks for any insights.
Sep 4, 2003, 2:53 pm
#2
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: New York,NY USA
Posts: 2
Hi,
As you can tell from the screen name I am an owner of HGVC and very happy with the purchase. In any event, if you haven't already go to www.tug2.net, the timeshare users group site and there is a wealth of info on both programs.
As you can tell from the screen name I am an owner of HGVC and very happy with the purchase. In any event, if you haven't already go to www.tug2.net, the timeshare users group site and there is a wealth of info on both programs.
Sep 4, 2003, 7:38 pm
#3
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: louisville, colorado usa
Posts: 8
We own 2 HGVC, it is great. you have made a wise choice. We use our HH card and its 3x to the dollar, except when you purchase any Hiltn stuff and they give you 5x. we bought a 2nd property and they bought one of ours back, we charged it to our card got over 60,000 pts. and also got a trip anywhere in the world for two, airfare and hotel. this last time (there was a promo with AmEX and there was a mix up but HGVC honored it and gave us 3500 bonus pts which is equal to 80,000 HH pts. We have been very happy with HGVC
Sep 5, 2003, 1:27 am
#4
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 447
I own 4 HGVC properties and work EVERY angle of the entire system inside and out. I can tell you don't EVER buy retail HGVC from those scumbag salepeople, no matter what the price. You will only get ripped off, and they will never buy propery back even close to what you pay for it - even when trading up. I have 20000 annual HGVC points that cost $2800/yr to maintain. We convert them all to Hilton points and with points stretcheer program this gives us 8 solid weeks of vacation.
The 4 properties (weeks) cost me under $24,000, but if I went through HGVC, it would have cost me close to $44,000. Buying HGVC affiliate properties can net you HUGE savings.
Opponenets will say "Hilton may someday drop their affiiation with the property?" It doesn matter, they are ALL RCI Gold Crown tradable and you can simply dump it for what you paid and pick up another HGVC affiliate if you like while keeping you HGVC account active.
IMHO all timeshares suck, but at least with HGVC, you can travel the world on your terms, not theirs. I can't tell you how many misrepresentations I have caught HGVC in, but its the nature of the beast.
The 4 properties (weeks) cost me under $24,000, but if I went through HGVC, it would have cost me close to $44,000. Buying HGVC affiliate properties can net you HUGE savings.
Opponenets will say "Hilton may someday drop their affiiation with the property?" It doesn matter, they are ALL RCI Gold Crown tradable and you can simply dump it for what you paid and pick up another HGVC affiliate if you like while keeping you HGVC account active.
IMHO all timeshares suck, but at least with HGVC, you can travel the world on your terms, not theirs. I can't tell you how many misrepresentations I have caught HGVC in, but its the nature of the beast.
Sep 5, 2003, 3:09 pm
#5
Join Date: May 2001
Location: midwest
Posts: 366
Do the stays at the time share count towards number of nights for gold or diamond status?
I realize that one automatically is silver when purchasing. We too are in the talking stage regarding a Hilton Time Share Purchase.
I realize that one automatically is silver when purchasing. We too are in the talking stage regarding a Hilton Time Share Purchase.
Sep 5, 2003, 3:40 pm
#6
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: 60601 AA/HH/SPG
Posts: 1,090
Being a happy HGVC owner myself, here is my 2c on the topic.
* All timeshares do not suck. Not even by a long shot. The ones that do are at the bottom of the pile. I would advise you to stick with the hotel based ones as you can never go wrong with them. ( Four Seasons, Hyatt, HIlton, Marriott & Starwood )
The common and often correct advise is that you should always buy resale. IMHO, HGVC gives you the most bang for the buck as it does not penalize you for buying resale. For quality, look no further than FS.
Till now, I have converted HGVC points to HH points every other year. To date , I have redeemed 61 nights (37-HH, 2-SPG, 15-HGVC and 7-SVO Redemptions)
IMHO, given the right location, a timeshare unit beats a hotel suite hands down. They would normally be GC/5* properties with room/maid service.
The best timeshare redemptions:
2Br Ocean View Lagoon Tower Unit
Four Seasons Avaria 1 Br Unit
The Westin Resort and Spa, Whistler
Sheraton's Desert Oasis
HGVC Flamingo ???
The worst
Xanadu Resort Bahamas. Though I have to give credit to HGVC for yanking it out of the nightly stay list based on our(and other member's) feedback.
[This message has been edited by Bourne (edited 09-05-2003).]
* All timeshares do not suck. Not even by a long shot. The ones that do are at the bottom of the pile. I would advise you to stick with the hotel based ones as you can never go wrong with them. ( Four Seasons, Hyatt, HIlton, Marriott & Starwood )
The common and often correct advise is that you should always buy resale. IMHO, HGVC gives you the most bang for the buck as it does not penalize you for buying resale. For quality, look no further than FS.
Till now, I have converted HGVC points to HH points every other year. To date , I have redeemed 61 nights (37-HH, 2-SPG, 15-HGVC and 7-SVO Redemptions)
IMHO, given the right location, a timeshare unit beats a hotel suite hands down. They would normally be GC/5* properties with room/maid service.
The best timeshare redemptions:
2Br Ocean View Lagoon Tower Unit
Four Seasons Avaria 1 Br Unit
The Westin Resort and Spa, Whistler
Sheraton's Desert Oasis
HGVC Flamingo ???
The worst
Xanadu Resort Bahamas. Though I have to give credit to HGVC for yanking it out of the nightly stay list based on our(and other member's) feedback.
[This message has been edited by Bourne (edited 09-05-2003).]
Sep 5, 2003, 6:10 pm
#7
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 447
Top 10 reasons why IMHO timeshares DO suck for my wife and I (or any couple). Even though I own 4 and would never get rid of them.
10) The same time and place every year, or you have to "ask" the property for a different week or location and they "get back to you" to see if they will allow it.
9) How your name gets put on various mailing lists so resellers can haunt you about selling your timeshare.
8) Often no room service or maid service.
7) Contastantly being solicitated to go on demonstrations
6) The places you want to transfer are often not avail.
5) Waiting to hear back from the timeshare people so you can't make any plans until they say so.
4) Waiting 4 weeks for HGVC to add a new property to an existing account.
3) Misrepresentations by HGVC staff indicating points can be accrued when they cannot.
2) How Hilton just put a %75 increase on point HHonors values in May making your already shorter 6 day trade in equivelent work out to 3.5 days at the same property.
They did this without upping the HGVC point trade in ratio so HGVC ovners got really screwed.
1) Those SCUMBAG salepeople who start out selling a $4000 property for $14,000. Just try to get information on a unit fromthe property without going through the sales staff. If you tell your inwuiry is for a private sale, they will be as non-helpful as a treestumnp, not to mention filling your head with lies about how people often get screwed with back dues and liens.
This doesn't happen nearly as often as when the SCUMBAGS screw the average consumer who doesn't have the tools or know how to buy privately.
Top 1 reason to get into HGVC timeashares:
1) To get out of timesharing!
and into Hilton resorts and hotels with bellhops, room service, elite priveledges, point programs that earn toward future visits, just to name a few of the reasons off the top of my head.
In our experience, timeshares (for 2 people) can't come close to offering the level of service a 4-5-6 star hotel or resort offers. For a family of 4+, that is a whole different story all together.
In 4 years, we have visitied 10 timeshares, and 150 hotels worlwide. There is simply no comparisson, but one should definetly keep 1-2 HGVC properties in their travel portfolio to use at will.
10) The same time and place every year, or you have to "ask" the property for a different week or location and they "get back to you" to see if they will allow it.
9) How your name gets put on various mailing lists so resellers can haunt you about selling your timeshare.
8) Often no room service or maid service.
7) Contastantly being solicitated to go on demonstrations
6) The places you want to transfer are often not avail.
5) Waiting to hear back from the timeshare people so you can't make any plans until they say so.
4) Waiting 4 weeks for HGVC to add a new property to an existing account.
3) Misrepresentations by HGVC staff indicating points can be accrued when they cannot.
2) How Hilton just put a %75 increase on point HHonors values in May making your already shorter 6 day trade in equivelent work out to 3.5 days at the same property.
They did this without upping the HGVC point trade in ratio so HGVC ovners got really screwed.
1) Those SCUMBAG salepeople who start out selling a $4000 property for $14,000. Just try to get information on a unit fromthe property without going through the sales staff. If you tell your inwuiry is for a private sale, they will be as non-helpful as a treestumnp, not to mention filling your head with lies about how people often get screwed with back dues and liens.
This doesn't happen nearly as often as when the SCUMBAGS screw the average consumer who doesn't have the tools or know how to buy privately.
Top 1 reason to get into HGVC timeashares:
1) To get out of timesharing!
and into Hilton resorts and hotels with bellhops, room service, elite priveledges, point programs that earn toward future visits, just to name a few of the reasons off the top of my head.
In our experience, timeshares (for 2 people) can't come close to offering the level of service a 4-5-6 star hotel or resort offers. For a family of 4+, that is a whole different story all together.
In 4 years, we have visitied 10 timeshares, and 150 hotels worlwide. There is simply no comparisson, but one should definetly keep 1-2 HGVC properties in their travel portfolio to use at will.
Sep 5, 2003, 6:21 pm
#8
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 447
If they tell you your stays or money spent at the timeshare counts towards HHonors membership, they are flat out lying to you, as they have me many times.
Every time I catch them in that lie, I call the diamond desk and give a 1000 points and apologise for beiong lied to and tHey take down the name of the person who did the lying.
I promis you that if you are paying $12K for your timeshare, you can pick up the identical unit for $7000 on ebay. This is the truth. The you simple buy the MHVC membership for $395. Don't get screwed.
You can even do your own closing which will cost under $70 in Florida. TRUST ME ON THIS, I've done 7 closings with Chain of Title and I'm no attorney.
Every time I catch them in that lie, I call the diamond desk and give a 1000 points and apologise for beiong lied to and tHey take down the name of the person who did the lying.
I promis you that if you are paying $12K for your timeshare, you can pick up the identical unit for $7000 on ebay. This is the truth. The you simple buy the MHVC membership for $395. Don't get screwed.
You can even do your own closing which will cost under $70 in Florida. TRUST ME ON THIS, I've done 7 closings with Chain of Title and I'm no attorney.
Sep 5, 2003, 9:25 pm
#9
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 447
Also, avoid HGVC weeks that are under 4800/5000 points because the lesser point properties incur close to the same m/f as the 2400 point studios.
If I can buy a 3500 point studio for $4500 or a 5000 point for $6000, for the extra $1500 I get more than double the amount of points (vacation time if done properly) for the life of ownership while the m/f stays the same.
In 3 years, the $1500 is paid for with the extra vacations you have avail. for your self.
I'd like to hear the SCUMBAGS explain that to you. Not a chance.
If I can buy a 3500 point studio for $4500 or a 5000 point for $6000, for the extra $1500 I get more than double the amount of points (vacation time if done properly) for the life of ownership while the m/f stays the same.
In 3 years, the $1500 is paid for with the extra vacations you have avail. for your self.
I'd like to hear the SCUMBAGS explain that to you. Not a chance.
Sep 6, 2003, 12:54 pm
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: IAD/DCA
Programs: UA 1K and Million Miler; Marriott Lifetime Platinum Premier
Posts: 376
Thanks for all the comments. My ultimate decision was to purchase a week at Tuscany Vil.lage in Orlando. I liked the flexibility of the Hilton program much better than Marriott. While the options for internal transfers weren't as great with Hilton, overall I am much more comfortable with Hilton. Timeshares have worked great for me and I don't have any regrets as my family has had many great vacations over the past 20 years or so. While I fully realize that purchases can be made at a considerable savings through private parties, I prefer dealing directly through Hilton as I was not familiar with all the ins and outs of Hilton Honors program. Perhaps if I choose to purchase a second week down the road, I would be more comfortable buying from a private party. BTW, my wife and I were treated professionally with absolutely no pressure unlike many presentations we've experienced in the past. Now it's time to "b."ring on the grandkids
Sep 6, 2003, 5:51 pm
#12
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 385
Thank you all for your candid comments about timeshares. We have been to Marriott and Hilton TS presentations and came close to purchasing, but at the last minute, we came to our senses. Both Marriott and Hilton have increased the # of points you need to exchange for nights+. That alone is unfair. What about the annual maintenance fees? Do they increase as well?
Sep 6, 2003, 10:44 pm
#13
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 447
YES, fees do increase.
You can expect an average annual increase average of %2-%3. They may not hit you every year, but over 10 years your rates will certinaly go up from $600 to at least $720 if not more.
IN ADDITION lets not forget the often waived at will, but still ever present, annual HGVC club fee, transfer fees, reservation fees, and whatever other fees they decide to tack on and raise.
In total, 3% per year is the rule I use, just like inflation.
At present the average 5000 point HGVC property pays 600/year plus extra if you really decide to work the system.
These hotel timeshare clubs are like a casino, the nmore you play, the more you pay.
Again, I wouldnt give it up but timeshares can sometimes be rigid money pits.
You can expect an average annual increase average of %2-%3. They may not hit you every year, but over 10 years your rates will certinaly go up from $600 to at least $720 if not more.
IN ADDITION lets not forget the often waived at will, but still ever present, annual HGVC club fee, transfer fees, reservation fees, and whatever other fees they decide to tack on and raise.
In total, 3% per year is the rule I use, just like inflation.
At present the average 5000 point HGVC property pays 600/year plus extra if you really decide to work the system.
These hotel timeshare clubs are like a casino, the nmore you play, the more you pay.
Again, I wouldnt give it up but timeshares can sometimes be rigid money pits.
Sep 6, 2003, 11:11 pm
#14
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Port Angeles, WA, USA Unwanted by AS, Hilton-Diamond, Starwood Platnum
Posts: 758
We've owned a timeshare at the Las Vegas Hilton for a couple of years now and I would have to say the experience has been very good. As of yet we have not stayed there again since we purchased but have traded into the Fiesta Americana at Cabo San Lucas twice and are headed over to Wiakaloa/Kona next week. The customer service reps are very professional.
When we bought we first signed up for a 3500 point package and after mulling it over for a couple of days went back and rescinded the purchase. They were very professinal about it and although they tried to figure out a way to make it work for us they didn't put up a big nasty scene. The package was just to small for our needs. 4 months later our situation had changed enough that we called out sales rep and she took care of everything very professionally. We too got a World trip which we cashed in for round trip air and 6 nights in Sydney, Australia.
One last thing for your thinking of buying. If you know someone who has a HGVC ownership they can refer you and the club will put you up for a few inexpensive nights to view the property and if you buy the person that referred you gets a bunch of Hilton points as a Thank You for referring you. If you don't know anyone I'm sure any of us would be glad to refer you.
------------------
"A day without Points/Miles is like a day without SUNSHINE"
When we bought we first signed up for a 3500 point package and after mulling it over for a couple of days went back and rescinded the purchase. They were very professinal about it and although they tried to figure out a way to make it work for us they didn't put up a big nasty scene. The package was just to small for our needs. 4 months later our situation had changed enough that we called out sales rep and she took care of everything very professionally. We too got a World trip which we cashed in for round trip air and 6 nights in Sydney, Australia.
One last thing for your thinking of buying. If you know someone who has a HGVC ownership they can refer you and the club will put you up for a few inexpensive nights to view the property and if you buy the person that referred you gets a bunch of Hilton points as a Thank You for referring you. If you don't know anyone I'm sure any of us would be glad to refer you.
------------------
"A day without Points/Miles is like a day without SUNSHINE"
Sep 6, 2003, 11:21 pm
#15
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 447
Superd, I just wanted something.
When one finally does get in to HGVC, they are generally treated very nice. I think mostly because they know people paid out the behind to be a member of their special "club". They kind of treat you like you are elite and are generous with bonus points when warranted, like referrals and problems, etc...
But trying to get in without paying full retail can be difficult and exhausted for newbies. Once in, they do their best to accomdate you, but as with most timeshares in general, you can't do things on the fly like you can with hotels. You must ask permission, give them more money, and hope for a yes.
They are idelaly suited for families or groups larger than a couple.
[This message has been edited by PaulGQ (edited 09-06-2003).]
When one finally does get in to HGVC, they are generally treated very nice. I think mostly because they know people paid out the behind to be a member of their special "club". They kind of treat you like you are elite and are generous with bonus points when warranted, like referrals and problems, etc...
But trying to get in without paying full retail can be difficult and exhausted for newbies. Once in, they do their best to accomdate you, but as with most timeshares in general, you can't do things on the fly like you can with hotels. You must ask permission, give them more money, and hope for a yes.
They are idelaly suited for families or groups larger than a couple.
[This message has been edited by PaulGQ (edited 09-06-2003).]