[ARCHIVE to 2014] Hilton Honors Diamond VIP Status: Is It Really Worth It?
Nov 13, 2012, 12:31 pm
#661
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,209
I wonder if properties in Europe are nicer to diamond guests because there is not quite so many of us? I am not aware of a European credit card arrangement to get diamond status, so I've ticked over the 28 stay mark last year and again this year, and expect to do so again next year.
Nov 13, 2012, 12:43 pm
#662
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Minneapolis, originally from Cincinnati
Programs: Diamond with Delta, Hyatt and Hilton. 2 MM and Plat with America (thank you citi:))
Posts: 2,345
I have been an HHonors VIP since 1996 and have watched the steady decline and sadly I think the solution is simple.
My first card was Silver VIP because of my initial stay. Even as a Silver VIP cardholder, back then, I felt recognised and the few benefits it offered distinguished it from basic membership. Eventually there were airline-sponsored 4 stay/90 day Gold VIP promos, which allowed frequent travellers to attain Gold. As I moved to Gold VIP, the difference was immense. Executive Floor upgrades, etc. but with my travel habits at the time Diamond seemed out of reach. When the Diamond promos did arrive, the requirements were reasonable all things considered but a bit of a stretch. But when I finally moved into Diamond there was again a huge difference to Gold.
These promos always made sense. They were offered to people who fly a lot and would likely re-qualify (as I have ever since) if they liked the programme.
I know this may be beating a dead horse so bear with me, but the real problem started with the credit card VIP handouts. It has ballooned the membership numbers, of ALL cards, with people who use the services in sufficient numbers to create strain on the system but not frequently enough (or with enough annual spend) for Hilton to be able to justify extending extraordinary benefits to people they may never see again.
There are now simply too many Diamonds VIPs. But there are not too many earned Diamonds. The solution is not to raise the requirements for people who actually earn it or to create another "exclusive" card. HHonors needs to go back to basics and remember that they are at heart a frequent hotel guest programme, and that the way they distribute these cards, and the reasoning behind it, should be consistent with this. I would even be happy seeing lower RE-qualification requirements. But I'm sorry, people that actually get their cards by staying in hotels deserve distinct recognition at the top tier and it will prove increasingly difficult to do this if the same benefits can be obtained by applying for a banking service.
My first card was Silver VIP because of my initial stay. Even as a Silver VIP cardholder, back then, I felt recognised and the few benefits it offered distinguished it from basic membership. Eventually there were airline-sponsored 4 stay/90 day Gold VIP promos, which allowed frequent travellers to attain Gold. As I moved to Gold VIP, the difference was immense. Executive Floor upgrades, etc. but with my travel habits at the time Diamond seemed out of reach. When the Diamond promos did arrive, the requirements were reasonable all things considered but a bit of a stretch. But when I finally moved into Diamond there was again a huge difference to Gold.
These promos always made sense. They were offered to people who fly a lot and would likely re-qualify (as I have ever since) if they liked the programme.
I know this may be beating a dead horse so bear with me, but the real problem started with the credit card VIP handouts. It has ballooned the membership numbers, of ALL cards, with people who use the services in sufficient numbers to create strain on the system but not frequently enough (or with enough annual spend) for Hilton to be able to justify extending extraordinary benefits to people they may never see again.
There are now simply too many Diamonds VIPs. But there are not too many earned Diamonds. The solution is not to raise the requirements for people who actually earn it or to create another "exclusive" card. HHonors needs to go back to basics and remember that they are at heart a frequent hotel guest programme, and that the way they distribute these cards, and the reasoning behind it, should be consistent with this. I would even be happy seeing lower RE-qualification requirements. But I'm sorry, people that actually get their cards by staying in hotels deserve distinct recognition at the top tier and it will prove increasingly difficult to do this if the same benefits can be obtained by applying for a banking service.
Nov 13, 2012, 3:20 pm
#663
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,908
I've found the diamond status most helpful for getting rooms in otherwise sold out hotels. Traveling to some popular tourist areas during prime holiday periods I've been able to use diamond status to book rooms with points where I would not have been able to get a room at all without it. To me, this is the most important reason to keep diamond status.
Nov 13, 2012, 3:30 pm
#664
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Minneapolis, originally from Cincinnati
Programs: Diamond with Delta, Hyatt and Hilton. 2 MM and Plat with America (thank you citi:))
Posts: 2,345
While it has been pulled as an official benefit, many properties provide it.
My wife and I are going to Europe and wanted to use 2 of the citi certs there. She is gold and was denied because no "standard" rooms were available. I called the diamond desk and they got the property to accept them.
There was one other time this year where she couldn't use points as a gold, and I was able to use an Axon award of only 145,000 points. I truly appreciate the properties that go out of their way for diamonds.
My wife and I are going to Europe and wanted to use 2 of the citi certs there. She is gold and was denied because no "standard" rooms were available. I called the diamond desk and they got the property to accept them.
There was one other time this year where she couldn't use points as a gold, and I was able to use an Axon award of only 145,000 points. I truly appreciate the properties that go out of their way for diamonds.
Nov 13, 2012, 4:08 pm
#665
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW London
Programs: BAEC Silver; Hilton Diamond;a miscellany of other hotel non-statuses
Posts: 3,607
I didn't, assuming we're talking about the same thing.
Until quite recently I was seeing online messages about extra rooms being added because I was Diamond. Is that the thing that has disappeared? If so, is there a link for the discussion on it so I can read more?
Until quite recently I was seeing online messages about extra rooms being added because I was Diamond. Is that the thing that has disappeared? If so, is there a link for the discussion on it so I can read more?
Nov 13, 2012, 4:34 pm
#666
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: GRQ
Programs: A3, KL, HHonors, A-Club, CC
Posts: 84
I wonder if properties in Europe are nicer to diamond guests because there is not quite so many of us? I am not aware of a European credit card arrangement to get diamond status, so I've ticked over the 28 stay mark last year and again this year, and expect to do so again next year.
Nov 13, 2012, 7:38 pm
#667
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: GRR
Programs: Delta Plat & Million Miler
Posts: 1,375
Gold versus Diamond
Is Diamond really worth much more than Gold? I’m Gold and need to decide where to send my business next fiscal year (all domestic U.S. stays). Are the Diamonds that are “formerly Gold” able to see a discernable difference? Is it really worth spending that many more nights for nearly equal treatment amongst the tier levels? Having asked the same question to HH CS – I was “ offered” Diamond status with Hilton based on my status and track record with a competitor – as I trust my fellow FTers to be fair and objective, let’s hear it – worth it?
[This message has been edited by WindShear (edited 09-30-2002).]
[This message has been edited by WindShear (edited 09-30-2002).]
Nov 13, 2012, 9:00 pm
#668
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,419
Nov 13, 2012, 11:58 pm
#669
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,908
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilto...ard-stays.html
guaranteed availability on paid stays is there but forced rack rates make this completely useless to me
Nov 14, 2012, 8:43 am
#670
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ヒルトン大阪
Programs: ゴールデングローブ
Posts: 1,982
...There are now simply too many Diamonds VIPs. But there are not too many earned Diamonds. The solution is not to raise the requirements for people who actually earn it or to create another "exclusive" card. HHonors needs to go back to basics and remember that they are at heart a frequent hotel guest programme, and that the way they distribute these cards, and the reasoning behind it, should be consistent with this...
Hilton, you should listen to that! I it indeed a main annoyance that you give away Diamond status! Another main annoyance is that Gold and Diamond get the same benefits in most cases!
Nov 14, 2012, 1:20 pm
#671
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Minneapolis, originally from Cincinnati
Programs: Diamond with Delta, Hyatt and Hilton. 2 MM and Plat with America (thank you citi:))
Posts: 2,345
The Palmer House in Chicago two weeks ago was going to give a better upgrade to two golds travelling with us on another reservation on a cheaper rate (I complained and got a good upgrade).1. Hilton Atlanta. Wife gets a "to go" bag for breakfast when not on the exec floor (they don't give exec lounge access unless on the exec floors here). I receive lounge access plus two hot full buffet breakfast every morning.
2. Bentely Miami. Stayed there last weekend with another couple who are gold. Both of us got upgrades. They received cont. breakfast buffet with upcharge to full buffet, wife and I received full breakfast buffet. We also received a bottle of wine in the room on arrival, free chairs and umbrellas at the beach and they recieved no wine and had to pay for their chairs and umbrella.
3. Trafalgar Hilton. Wife received cont. buffet (still good spread of food) and when I was there as a diamond received that plus was told I could order whatever I wanted off the menu for breakfast.
4. Doubletree suites, Orlando. Golds receive cont. buffet and pay $6 for full buffet, diamonds receive full buffet.
5. Doubletree New Orleans by Harrahs, Diamonds receive full buffet, gold is cont. only.
6. Washington Hilton, no problem with 4 p.m. checkout as diamond. Golds receive a 2 p.m. latest checkout.
7. Windsor, Ontario Hilton. Golds receive a coupon to be applied towards menu items at breakfast or buffet (IIRC it is $10 or $12) and anything over the coupon amount has to be paid for. Diamonds receive the full breakfast buffet and drink plus two beer/wine chits for the evening.
Nov 15, 2012, 2:55 am
#672
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA Plat MM, AA Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 5,015
Perhaps we should start a thread about what properties treat their diamonds right? Many treat us the same as golds, but some do treat us better. My wife is Gold, and she stays at many of the same properties I do when on the road for business. Some treat diamonds worse The Palmer House in Chicago two weeks ago was going to give a better upgrade to two golds travelling with us on another reservation on a cheaper rate (I complained and got a good upgrade).
1. Hilton Atlanta. Wife gets a "to go" bag for breakfast when not on the exec floor (they don't give exec lounge access unless on the exec floors here). I receive lounge access plus two hot full buffet breakfast every morning.
2. Bentely Miami. Stayed there last weekend with another couple who are gold. Both of us got upgrades. They received cont. breakfast buffet with upcharge to full buffet, wife and I received full breakfast buffet. We also received a bottle of wine in the room on arrival, free chairs and umbrellas at the beach and they recieved no wine and had to pay for their chairs and umbrella.
3. Trafalgar Hilton. Wife received cont. buffet (still good spread of food) and when I was there as a diamond received that plus was told I could order whatever I wanted off the menu for breakfast.
4. Doubletree suites, Orlando. Golds receive cont. buffet and pay $6 for full buffet, diamonds receive full buffet.
5. Doubletree New Orleans by Harrahs, Diamonds receive full buffet, gold is cont. only.
6. Washington Hilton, no problem with 4 p.m. checkout as diamond. Golds receive a 2 p.m. latest checkout.
7. Windsor, Ontario Hilton. Golds receive a coupon to be applied towards menu items at breakfast or buffet (IIRC it is $10 or $12) and anything over the coupon amount has to be paid for. Diamonds receive the full breakfast buffet and drink plus two beer/wine chits for the evening.
The Palmer House in Chicago two weeks ago was going to give a better upgrade to two golds travelling with us on another reservation on a cheaper rate (I complained and got a good upgrade).1. Hilton Atlanta. Wife gets a "to go" bag for breakfast when not on the exec floor (they don't give exec lounge access unless on the exec floors here). I receive lounge access plus two hot full buffet breakfast every morning.
2. Bentely Miami. Stayed there last weekend with another couple who are gold. Both of us got upgrades. They received cont. breakfast buffet with upcharge to full buffet, wife and I received full breakfast buffet. We also received a bottle of wine in the room on arrival, free chairs and umbrellas at the beach and they recieved no wine and had to pay for their chairs and umbrella.
3. Trafalgar Hilton. Wife received cont. buffet (still good spread of food) and when I was there as a diamond received that plus was told I could order whatever I wanted off the menu for breakfast.
4. Doubletree suites, Orlando. Golds receive cont. buffet and pay $6 for full buffet, diamonds receive full buffet.
5. Doubletree New Orleans by Harrahs, Diamonds receive full buffet, gold is cont. only.
6. Washington Hilton, no problem with 4 p.m. checkout as diamond. Golds receive a 2 p.m. latest checkout.
7. Windsor, Ontario Hilton. Golds receive a coupon to be applied towards menu items at breakfast or buffet (IIRC it is $10 or $12) and anything over the coupon amount has to be paid for. Diamonds receive the full breakfast buffet and drink plus two beer/wine chits for the evening.
Nov 15, 2012, 7:01 am
#673
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 15,398
Good Lord! Is that all you get for being Diamond?? I don't even eat breakfast most of the time, and if an enhanced breakfast is all you normally get as a Diamond, it's absolutely insane to strive for Diamond status when Gold has nearly identical benefits. And now you can get Gold automatically just by paying the annual fee for a Citi Hilton HHonors Reserve Card! Plus you get a free night after spending $10K in a year. Diamond gets you NO comp nights...
A lot of properties will still do diamond force on rewards stays as well which is great. I am staying at the Bentley in Miami with my two citi certificates when room rates are $1,500 a night plus tax. No rooms are available for use with the certificates but a call to the diamond desk handled that for me.
And in 2010, they had the qf3n promo that was only for diamond members. I had a lot of hilton stays that quarter and got four free nights out of that, I wouldn't have received as gold.
Seeing that gold is now practically being given away, I can see Hilton making some changes to the program to treat diamonds better. Either that or they will diminish gold benefits. There are already reports from golds whining that hotels aren't giving them lounge access anymore unless they are on the exec level. I know for some guests it isn't a big deal, but for a business traveller it is nice.
In Europe is were you really see the added benefits. Most of the lounges have full breakfasts and free alcohol.
Nov 15, 2012, 7:22 am
#674
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Minneapolis, originally from Cincinnati
Programs: Diamond with Delta, Hyatt and Hilton. 2 MM and Plat with America (thank you citi:))
Posts: 2,345
Hilton needs to make another level inbetween gold and diamond and eliminate the upgrades for the current gold level.
It isn't just Hilton that is sellng their higher tier membership with no actual stays either.
Best Western you simply fax over your Hilton diamond card and they match it (although the benefits aren't that great).
My sister is PM (second highest level on Delta) by flying only 3 trips this year thanks to American express. I will be Diamond on Delta flying only 55K miles this year thanks to their Am Ex program, being able to buy miles and rollover miles.
Last edited by ILovetheReds; Nov 15, 2012 at 7:33 am
Nov 15, 2012, 10:32 am
#675
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 15,398
I would love to see the former happen, but I think the latter is going to be more likely to occur. My wife is already seeing it as a gold. As you mentioned more hotels are enforcing the lounge policy for allowing golds access. She has also stayed at a couple properties that used to give her exec level rooms even when she was booked on a cheap corporate rate, and now they will only upgrade her one room level, IF she gets upgraded.
Hilton needs to make another level inbetween gold and diamond and eliminate the upgrades for the current gold level.
It isn't just Hilton that is sellng their higher tier membership with no actual stays either.
Best Western you simply fax over your Hilton diamond card and they match it (although the benefits aren't that great).
My sister is PM (second highest level on Delta) by flying only 3 trips this year thanks to American express. I will be Diamond on Delta flying only 55K miles this year thanks to their Am Ex program, being able to buy miles and rollover miles.
Hilton needs to make another level inbetween gold and diamond and eliminate the upgrades for the current gold level.
It isn't just Hilton that is sellng their higher tier membership with no actual stays either.
Best Western you simply fax over your Hilton diamond card and they match it (although the benefits aren't that great).
My sister is PM (second highest level on Delta) by flying only 3 trips this year thanks to American express. I will be Diamond on Delta flying only 55K miles this year thanks to their Am Ex program, being able to buy miles and rollover miles.
Some programs are just more "expensive" to buy into than other.
Hilton allows you to buy into their highest status for a mere $90 a year plus $40K in spend.
I am going to either get the Am Ex Delta reserve or buy the MQM's to reach Diamond on Delta this year. Unfortunately it is going to cost me $400 to $600 but will be worth it to me seeing all the PM's that fly out of Detroit and this will be a cheap way of trumping them on almost every upgrade.