Feb 3, 2017, 4:10 pm
Last edit by: paul00
Official link showing the maximum number of points needed to redeem a standard room award after the changes: http://pointsandmoney.hilton.com/
How will standard room rewards be affected by the changes?
Will I earn bonus points on the cash portion of Points & Money bookings?
Although the HonorsRepresentative stated in Feb 2017 that 'you can rest assured about the value of your Points. As we make this transition on Standard Room Rewards, each hotel's maximum Points price is NOT increasing', in June 2017 the maximum number of points needed to redeem standard room rewards at four properties were raised. Furthermore, the HonorsRepresentative stated that:
List of properties which have seen increases in the maximum number of points needed to redeem standard room awards since the changes:
How will standard room rewards be affected by the changes?
Our Points prices will also become more flexible. When demand and room rates are lower, Points prices will flex and go lower than before. As we launch this new benefit, we’re also saying farewell to hotel categories - which will allow prices to go lower than the previous ranges. But you can rest assured about the value of your Points. As we make this transition on Standard Room Rewards, each hotel's maximum Points price is NOT increasing.
For example, today a Standard Room at Category 10 hotels maxes out at 95,000 Points per night. Once the new Points & Money program launches, those hotels will continue to top out at 95,000 Points, and may sometimes be priced lower than the previous category range.
For example, today a Standard Room at Category 10 hotels maxes out at 95,000 Points per night. Once the new Points & Money program launches, those hotels will continue to top out at 95,000 Points, and may sometimes be priced lower than the previous category range.
If you book a Points & Money rate when the new functionality goes live later this month [Feb 2017], the money portion will qualify to earn Hilton Honors Base Points. You'll also qualify to earn Bonus Points through eligible promotions, including the 2K Every Day promotion (note: I posted this update in the promotion thread, as well).
Points & Money stays booked under the current system are subject to the current Terms & Conditions of the program - therefore, you would not be eligible to earn Points on the cash portion of the stay.
Points & Money stays booked under the current system are subject to the current Terms & Conditions of the program - therefore, you would not be eligible to earn Points on the cash portion of the stay.
- Hampton Inn closest to Universal Orlando, US: Cat 3 (max 20,000 points) to Cat 4 (max 30,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Hangzhou East, China: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Jiaxing, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Wuhu, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Shenzhen Longhua, China: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Doubletree by Hilton Xiamen-Haicang, China: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Fuzhou Cangshan, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Suzhou, China: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Ningbo, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hampton Inn and Suites Chicago/Hoffman Estates, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hampton Inn Lincoln, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hampton Inn and Suites Las Vegas Airport, US: Cat 3 (max 20,000 points) to max 25,000 points
- DoubleTree by Hilton Ningbo Beilun, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Shenzhen Bao'an, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Dandong, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hampton by Hilton Krakow, Poland, Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hampton Inn and Suites Oxford/Anniston, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Oxford/Anniston, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hilton Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Conrad Macao Cotai Central: Cat 5 (max 40,000 points) to Cat 6 (max 50,000 points)
- Hampton Inn LaGrange near Callaway Gardens, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hampton Inn Cartersville, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hampton Inn Fall River/Westport, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hampton by Hilton Minsk City Centre, Belarus: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Ningbo - Chunxiao, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Foshan, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Alexandria Corniche, Egypt: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Alexandria Green Plaza, Egypt: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Melaka, Malaysia: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hampton by Hilton Swinoujscie, Poland: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to max 15,000 points
- Hampton by Hilton Nizhny Novgorod, Russia: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hampton by Hilton Samara, Russia: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Ulyanovsk, Russia: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Volgograd, Russia: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Trabzon (previously Hilton Garden Inn Trabzon), Turkey: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to max 25,000 points
- Hilton Salalah Resort, Oman: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
Announcing Four New Hilton Honors Perks
Feb 1, 2017, 12:36 pm
#121
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,535
Correct me if I am wrong, but iirc until now under the old rules it was solely up to the hotel to decide what months (if any) they wanted to declare "low season". So what would have stopped the hotel in the past to just deem the whole year as high season (like e.q. the Conrad Maldives) and require the max. pts for the hotel category?
As far as I can tell the change doesn't really give you more or less "security" about the minimum points you need to get a room or "low season point redemption rates".
As far as I can tell the change doesn't really give you more or less "security" about the minimum points you need to get a room or "low season point redemption rates".
Maybe in 2 weeks it'll drop down to 60k, maybe in 3 more after that it'll jump to 90k.
At least now I can look at a set schedule and know what it'll be vs. constantly changing with a dynamic, load-based system.
Unless it's going to work differently.
Feb 1, 2017, 12:37 pm
#122
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
As far as I can tell the change doesn't really give you more or less "security" about the minimum points you need to get a room
Yes, Hilton is making promises about keeping the caps in place at the time the transition occurs. But at some point very soon--my money is on Q1 2018 or before--that will evaporate.
Feb 1, 2017, 12:43 pm
#123
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 417
Hi Lauren
Thank you for the information.
One of the new perks are to be able to extent diamond level for an additional year.
It states that the member shall have been diamond 3+ years plus the requirements on base points/number of nights.
My questions is - shall it be three consecutive years in order to use this perk?
Thank you
HJ
Thank you for the information.
One of the new perks are to be able to extent diamond level for an additional year.
It states that the member shall have been diamond 3+ years plus the requirements on base points/number of nights.
My questions is - shall it be three consecutive years in order to use this perk?
Thank you
HJ
Feb 1, 2017, 12:45 pm
#124
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA EP, UA Gold-MM, UA 1K (former), GS (former),SPG LT Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,299
Wow - it is hard to fathom how so many savvy FTers have the wool pulled over their eyes w/r/t HHonors. Mark my words: this will turn out to be a massive devaluation, and even worse it will be a sneaky and hidden devaluation as people will forget the category levels that fixed the award price for various properties.
DL went the same route and now there is no way to predict how many miles you will need for any given trip as there are no award charts. So all you can do is look at the current rate and use that as a guide for future trips. But there is no guarantee as DL is free to change the award price whenever and however it wants.
DL went the same route and now there is no way to predict how many miles you will need for any given trip as there are no award charts. So all you can do is look at the current rate and use that as a guide for future trips. But there is no guarantee as DL is free to change the award price whenever and however it wants.
Umm... didn't DL do something similar when they removed their charts? Maybe FT and most of the bloggers are happy because an official representative or VP told them as the changes were being made so there is an appearance of being more upfront on this.
Feb 1, 2017, 12:54 pm
#125
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 176
A category change might not be as easy, but hotels have regularly changed categories in the past (more often going up, rarely going down), so even under the old rules a property could be moved up a category or two while you try to save up enough points to book a room or before you actually do your reservation.
And yes, I agree with you that once the "transition period" is gone, there will be little chance to play ahead and the prices for properties like the Conrad Maldives will probably go through the roof and easily reach 6-figures. My post was related to the transition period though, while that cap at the current category maximum is still in play.
Feb 1, 2017, 1:03 pm
#126
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,846
Feb 1, 2017, 1:07 pm
#127
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 907
I thought I'd chime in with some of my thoughts of the high/low season and how this might not be huge problem (assuming the maximum points redemption for a property doesn't change, which I admit is a difficult assumption to make; and that the points earning remains the same). It all depends on the algorithm/gauge used by the Honors systems to choose high vs. low seasons for 100% points booking. which I appreciate is a fairly obvious decision.
The hotel's choice of offpeak season was presumably based on somebody doing some form of analysis. Historical occupancy on a particular date/month and the average price for that date/month. If those historical trends hold this year, then the lower pricing should never be available for what were previously peak (i.e. no change). If the historical occupancy trends hold this year, the lower pricing should remain available for a lot of the dates that were previously offpeak by virtue of there being fewer people bookings anyway (and therefore the rate and occupancy levels being lower; i.e. little to no change). However, there will probably be a few days in what were previously 'peak dates' that will soon be lower due to having lower rates and occupancy levels too - say a random Tuesday in July might be at the lower pricing in the future, but that wouldn't be the case in the past because the hotel had chosen the whole month of July as peak (I acknowledge that Premium Room Rewards might negate the benefit of this a little as one could sometimes find a premium room reward as lower than the standard peak room reward anyway).
Of course, the above depends on where the dynamic pricing systems sets the gauge of high vs. low pricing. The gauge might be set to allow low pricing in too stringent/restricted a set of circumstances (plus it might also take into account more than just occupancy on a particular day but also occupancy on the days before and after too; and a comparison between the current calendar booking day and historical trends of bookings for far out stay days were on the same booking day in the past).
I hope that made sense on my thoughts. My perception on if this is good/bad depends on a) how tight the gauge for high/low pricing is set, and b) if the maximum points creeps up. I know others will disagree. Overall, I think it is too early to work out what effect this will have in the medium-term let alone the long-term. In the short term (i.e. for the first six months), it could be a fairly beneficial move to many member of the Honors program whether 3-nights-a-year or 35 nights a year.
The hotel's choice of offpeak season was presumably based on somebody doing some form of analysis. Historical occupancy on a particular date/month and the average price for that date/month. If those historical trends hold this year, then the lower pricing should never be available for what were previously peak (i.e. no change). If the historical occupancy trends hold this year, the lower pricing should remain available for a lot of the dates that were previously offpeak by virtue of there being fewer people bookings anyway (and therefore the rate and occupancy levels being lower; i.e. little to no change). However, there will probably be a few days in what were previously 'peak dates' that will soon be lower due to having lower rates and occupancy levels too - say a random Tuesday in July might be at the lower pricing in the future, but that wouldn't be the case in the past because the hotel had chosen the whole month of July as peak (I acknowledge that Premium Room Rewards might negate the benefit of this a little as one could sometimes find a premium room reward as lower than the standard peak room reward anyway).
Of course, the above depends on where the dynamic pricing systems sets the gauge of high vs. low pricing. The gauge might be set to allow low pricing in too stringent/restricted a set of circumstances (plus it might also take into account more than just occupancy on a particular day but also occupancy on the days before and after too; and a comparison between the current calendar booking day and historical trends of bookings for far out stay days were on the same booking day in the past).
I hope that made sense on my thoughts. My perception on if this is good/bad depends on a) how tight the gauge for high/low pricing is set, and b) if the maximum points creeps up. I know others will disagree. Overall, I think it is too early to work out what effect this will have in the medium-term let alone the long-term. In the short term (i.e. for the first six months), it could be a fairly beneficial move to many member of the Honors program whether 3-nights-a-year or 35 nights a year.
Last edited by Simon Schus; Feb 1, 2017 at 1:19 pm
Feb 1, 2017, 1:46 pm
#129
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 907
Blergh, I hope not but can see why that suggestion is made. I find the Accor program so hard to get excited about, aside from the Happy Monday's promotion in the UK and Dublin. Moved my stays to Hilton and Marriott because I found the Accor program so dull. The Hilton program has a few benefits (e.g. the free breakfast, guaranteed lounge access) that would help to mitigate against that a little but it still wouldn't be a very exciting proposition. I think this enthusiasm is point that a few others mentioned a few higher up, and I agree with them.
Feb 1, 2017, 1:53 pm
#130
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Plat, IHG Plat
Posts: 17
Looks like the new tool is up. http://pointsandmoney.hilton.com/ Someone need to create a database to see how many hotels went up or down.
Feb 1, 2017, 1:57 pm
#131
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Andover, MA, 01810
Posts: 1,972
There is no reason to eliminate the categories in order to implement this new scheme. What used to be the high season standard price can now be called the maximum dynamic price. People could look at the category and know what is the highest price, and meanwhile the go to the web site to see the price for their dates. And Hilton would give us a little warning when that price would go up or down.
So they can still do that. They can still have a list of hotels and for each one tell us the maximum dynamic price, much like the tool that Lauren gave us. And when Hilton wants to change the maximum dynamic price, just give a warning, much like today.
If Hilton does not want to keep us updated on the maximum dynamic price, that makes it look like they want to be able to raise the maximum price at any time without warning. Maybe that is in fact what their goal is.
So they can still do that. They can still have a list of hotels and for each one tell us the maximum dynamic price, much like the tool that Lauren gave us. And when Hilton wants to change the maximum dynamic price, just give a warning, much like today.
If Hilton does not want to keep us updated on the maximum dynamic price, that makes it look like they want to be able to raise the maximum price at any time without warning. Maybe that is in fact what their goal is.
Feb 1, 2017, 2:14 pm
#132
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
The fact that property categories are (OK, were) very "sticky":Yes, it's true that a property could (and still can, for the moment) change a given date from low to high season rates. The point here is that no matter how you slice it, there's still a hard cap on standard awards under the current category-based regime. Get ready to kiss that goodbye.
- They tended not to change for any given property.
- When they did change, it was at periodic (and roughly predictable) intervals.
- In recent years, Hilton even gave you advance warning of category changes.
Feb 1, 2017, 3:34 pm
#133
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Somewhere in Europe
Posts: 3,362
Looks like the new tool is up. http://pointsandmoney.hilton.com/ Someone need to create a database to see how many hotels went up or down.
Now all I have to work out when "Off peak" is in places like this.
On paper this looks and sounds great when you look at the different hotels on that website, however something in my head is saying something isn't right.
Feb 1, 2017, 3:45 pm
#135
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 2,379
Hi all,
Following up on some of the questions that I've seen come through...
Members will still achieve Hilton Honors status as before through stays, nights, or Hilton Honors Base Points. All Points & Money stays and nights will continue to count the same towards the achievement of Hilton Honors status. Also, Base Points are earned on the money portion spent on a stay.
Points & Money will be "always on" at any hotel with room availability, any time.
Thank you!
Lauren
Following up on some of the questions that I've seen come through...
Members will still achieve Hilton Honors status as before through stays, nights, or Hilton Honors Base Points. All Points & Money stays and nights will continue to count the same towards the achievement of Hilton Honors status. Also, Base Points are earned on the money portion spent on a stay.
Points & Money will be "always on" at any hotel with room availability, any time.
Thank you!
Lauren