Feb 3, 2017, 4:10 pm
Last edit by: paul00
Official link showing the maximum number of points needed to redeem a standard room award after the changes: http://pointsandmoney.hilton.com/
How will standard room rewards be affected by the changes?
Will I earn bonus points on the cash portion of Points & Money bookings?
Although the HonorsRepresentative stated in Feb 2017 that 'you can rest assured about the value of your Points. As we make this transition on Standard Room Rewards, each hotel's maximum Points price is NOT increasing', in June 2017 the maximum number of points needed to redeem standard room rewards at four properties were raised. Furthermore, the HonorsRepresentative stated that:
List of properties which have seen increases in the maximum number of points needed to redeem standard room awards since the changes:
How will standard room rewards be affected by the changes?
Our Points prices will also become more flexible. When demand and room rates are lower, Points prices will flex and go lower than before. As we launch this new benefit, we’re also saying farewell to hotel categories - which will allow prices to go lower than the previous ranges. But you can rest assured about the value of your Points. As we make this transition on Standard Room Rewards, each hotel's maximum Points price is NOT increasing.
For example, today a Standard Room at Category 10 hotels maxes out at 95,000 Points per night. Once the new Points & Money program launches, those hotels will continue to top out at 95,000 Points, and may sometimes be priced lower than the previous category range.
For example, today a Standard Room at Category 10 hotels maxes out at 95,000 Points per night. Once the new Points & Money program launches, those hotels will continue to top out at 95,000 Points, and may sometimes be priced lower than the previous category range.
If you book a Points & Money rate when the new functionality goes live later this month [Feb 2017], the money portion will qualify to earn Hilton Honors Base Points. You'll also qualify to earn Bonus Points through eligible promotions, including the 2K Every Day promotion (note: I posted this update in the promotion thread, as well).
Points & Money stays booked under the current system are subject to the current Terms & Conditions of the program - therefore, you would not be eligible to earn Points on the cash portion of the stay.
Points & Money stays booked under the current system are subject to the current Terms & Conditions of the program - therefore, you would not be eligible to earn Points on the cash portion of the stay.
- Hampton Inn closest to Universal Orlando, US: Cat 3 (max 20,000 points) to Cat 4 (max 30,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Hangzhou East, China: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Jiaxing, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Wuhu, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Shenzhen Longhua, China: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Doubletree by Hilton Xiamen-Haicang, China: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Fuzhou Cangshan, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Suzhou, China: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Ningbo, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hampton Inn and Suites Chicago/Hoffman Estates, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hampton Inn Lincoln, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hampton Inn and Suites Las Vegas Airport, US: Cat 3 (max 20,000 points) to max 25,000 points
- DoubleTree by Hilton Ningbo Beilun, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Shenzhen Bao'an, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Dandong, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hampton by Hilton Krakow, Poland, Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hampton Inn and Suites Oxford/Anniston, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Oxford/Anniston, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hilton Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Conrad Macao Cotai Central: Cat 5 (max 40,000 points) to Cat 6 (max 50,000 points)
- Hampton Inn LaGrange near Callaway Gardens, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hampton Inn Cartersville, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hampton Inn Fall River/Westport, US: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to Cat 3 (max 20,000 points)
- Hampton by Hilton Minsk City Centre, Belarus: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Ningbo - Chunxiao, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Foshan, China: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Alexandria Corniche, Egypt: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Alexandria Green Plaza, Egypt: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Melaka, Malaysia: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hampton by Hilton Swinoujscie, Poland: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to max 15,000 points
- Hampton by Hilton Nizhny Novgorod, Russia: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hampton by Hilton Samara, Russia: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Ulyanovsk, Russia: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- Hilton Garden Inn Volgograd, Russia: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
- DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Trabzon (previously Hilton Garden Inn Trabzon), Turkey: Cat 2 (max 10,000 points) to max 25,000 points
- Hilton Salalah Resort, Oman: Cat 1 (max 5,000 points) to Cat 2 (max 10,000 points)
Announcing Four New Hilton Honors Perks
Feb 1, 2017, 9:22 am
#106
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,135
Feb 1, 2017, 9:28 am
#107
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW London and NW Sydney
Programs: BA Diamond, Hilton Bronze, A3 Diamond, IHG *G
Posts: 6,343
I think (personal view) that this change is a LOT about 'book direct' and VERY LITTLE about 'leg over members'. By offering money off from 5k points they essentially create a virtual circle - book direct and save an extra $15 from your 5k points, then earn 5k back from your stay and so save another $15 next time. It is all about taking business away from Expedia etc.
Whilst hotel pricing will move up over time, I'm sure, we are dealing with a company that moved their top price from 50k to 95k in one go. Even if categories had remained I doubt it would make a lot of difference to how they behave.
The worse case scenario for Hilton is that we all decide that Hotels.com Rewards is a better programme than Hilton Honors and we start booking via their portal instead. As that would reverse all the work that Hilton has done over the last year I doubt it will happen. Unlike airline consolidation, the hotel business remains hugely fragmented and the loyalty schemes remain a key driver.
The new HH appears to just be a fixed 7.5% rebate (15 points per USD spent, 200 points to save 1 USD), plus whatever you get from credit cards and promos such as 2k per night / 5th night free - so it's still possible to beat hotels.com if you restrict yourself to Hiltons. Free breakfast is still a good benefit in Europe at least.
Feb 1, 2017, 10:17 am
#108
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London / Los Angeles
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, BA Silver
Posts: 1,631
This whole FF game is a hobby for me and I 100% agree that a big part of the fun are the occasions where you get a Ł300 a night hotel(or flight) for Ł50 worth of points.
If this new scheme means you will only ever get a Ł300 a night hotel for Ł250 worth of points, then yeah you are still saving a little money but meh I'm not that interested. This is why I don't use the accor scheme.
Feb 1, 2017, 10:27 am
#109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,718
If all that is at stake is a slight rebate via points, I can just stay cheaper elsewhere or use Priceline.
Feb 1, 2017, 10:40 am
#110
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: VPS
Programs: IHG Diamond, Delta PM, Hilton Gold, Accor Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 7,259
Probably was me over on DOC. HILTON - We don't want this change, especially expats living overseas like me. Hilton next deval will be my last stand and time to begin meta-searching local competitors. How many devals has this been for each major hotelier each year for the past 5 years? I'm focusing on IHG as Ambassador gave amazing service in Danang - totally worth the cost.
On the bright side, if you are in it for the free nights, their slow devaluation of that is a lot more tolerable than Hilton's 'off a cliff' approach.
Feb 1, 2017, 10:55 am
#111
Company Representative - Honors by Hilton
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Programs: Hilton Honors
Posts: 1,516
Hi all,
Seeing a lot of questions about the reason behind the update to Points & Money and the future of reward prices. We’ve made these changes based on feedback that our members wanted more flexibility for Point redemptions. So now, more of our members can use Points to book stays with nearly any combination of Points & Money. On reward pricing for Standard Awards, there is no change from the current maximum number of Points for each hotel and there are no plans to change this approach.
Thanks and keep the comments/feedback coming,
Lauren
Seeing a lot of questions about the reason behind the update to Points & Money and the future of reward prices. We’ve made these changes based on feedback that our members wanted more flexibility for Point redemptions. So now, more of our members can use Points to book stays with nearly any combination of Points & Money. On reward pricing for Standard Awards, there is no change from the current maximum number of Points for each hotel and there are no plans to change this approach.
Thanks and keep the comments/feedback coming,
Lauren
Feb 1, 2017, 11:03 am
#112
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,718
Thanks for the timely communication. I think you and Hilton may be slightly disadvantaged by the meta-context of loyalty program changes in general. In this era, when a program announces "exciting new enhancements... in response to what our valued customers tell us they want!" ... the net effect is typically a degradation, not an improvement.
Having been through these little dramas in recent years with British Airways, United, Delta, Hyatt, and I don't know who else -- always insisting the programs are better, when they always turn out worse -- I hope you'll forgive me if i reserve judgment on the modification of HHonors until I see a few months' worth of action. If the program really does emerge net-net same or better you'll be in a distinct minority.
Having been through these little dramas in recent years with British Airways, United, Delta, Hyatt, and I don't know who else -- always insisting the programs are better, when they always turn out worse -- I hope you'll forgive me if i reserve judgment on the modification of HHonors until I see a few months' worth of action. If the program really does emerge net-net same or better you'll be in a distinct minority.
Feb 1, 2017, 11:29 am
#113
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,644
More or less, if Lucky is to be believed.
When a hotel has no standard redemption availability, you can already see this in action.
If a premium room is $100, then it will also be available to redeem for 20000 points, which is 0.5c per point. But usually there will be a HHonors discount which reduces the price a little.
With the new version, for a $100 room, you might be able to pay 10000 points plus $52.50.
You will now earn 525 points on the $52.50, so it's actually spend 9475 points to save $47.50 off the cash rate (according to my conjecture based on the examples provided by Lucky in his blog), so the headline value per point is around 0.46c.
Previously, the points and money cost would depend on the category of the hotel and not be related to the cash rates at all.
I might be completely wrong about all of the above, but I am just reading between the lines from the limited information that has been released so far.
When a hotel has no standard redemption availability, you can already see this in action.
If a premium room is $100, then it will also be available to redeem for 20000 points, which is 0.5c per point. But usually there will be a HHonors discount which reduces the price a little.
With the new version, for a $100 room, you might be able to pay 10000 points plus $52.50.
You will now earn 525 points on the $52.50, so it's actually spend 9475 points to save $47.50 off the cash rate (according to my conjecture based on the examples provided by Lucky in his blog), so the headline value per point is around 0.46c.
Previously, the points and money cost would depend on the category of the hotel and not be related to the cash rates at all.
I might be completely wrong about all of the above, but I am just reading between the lines from the limited information that has been released so far.
Mike
Feb 1, 2017, 11:51 am
#114
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
The new HH appears to just be a fixed 7.5% rebate (15 points per USD spent, 200 points to save 1 USD), plus whatever you get from credit cards and promos such as 2k per night / 5th night free - so it's still possible to beat hotels.com if you restrict yourself to Hiltons. Free breakfast is still a good benefit in Europe at least.
Whether, over time, that 95k adjusts to be nearer 0.5c per point is pure speculation. Short term, nothing changes in terms of being able to do 100% points redemptions for the same price.
Feb 1, 2017, 11:53 am
#115
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: Hilton, IHG, BA
Posts: 7
Not too sure about these changes, whether or not they will be better or worse we'll have to wait and see.
Interesting data point @ HGI Birmingham - stayed here last week and was given free drinks vouchers, ordered room service and watched the football on sky sports, all great for a lazy evening in.
Checked in again tonight and none offered - I didn't care too much about the drinks but called reception as sky wasn't working in the room. Just got a call back to say that from today they won't be offering sky sports or drinks vouchers 'in order to align with the rest of the Hilton brand' - hopefully it's just this individual hotel but it seems like they are cutting back costs.
Interesting data point @ HGI Birmingham - stayed here last week and was given free drinks vouchers, ordered room service and watched the football on sky sports, all great for a lazy evening in.
Checked in again tonight and none offered - I didn't care too much about the drinks but called reception as sky wasn't working in the room. Just got a call back to say that from today they won't be offering sky sports or drinks vouchers 'in order to align with the rest of the Hilton brand' - hopefully it's just this individual hotel but it seems like they are cutting back costs.
Feb 1, 2017, 11:59 am
#116
Join Date: May 2009
Location: EUG
Programs: AS MVP, AA MM, HH Diamond, MR Gold
Posts: 8,216
Lauren, who are these HH members that asked for these changes? It is not the folks here on FT - their requests of late checkout for Diamonds, points awarded on C&P stays, and many other requests you solicited several months ago have not happened.
Instead, we get these changes that I don't recall anyone asking for, but that you say were "requested".
So, in order to get into the next pool of requesters that do get listened to, can you tell all of us exactly how to do that?
Instead, we get these changes that I don't recall anyone asking for, but that you say were "requested".
So, in order to get into the next pool of requesters that do get listened to, can you tell all of us exactly how to do that?
Feb 1, 2017, 12:04 pm
#117
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,135
Seeing a lot of questions about the reason behind the update to Points & Money and the future of reward prices. We’ve made these changes based on feedback that our members wanted more flexibility for Point redemptions. So now, more of our members can use Points to book stays with nearly any combination of Points & Money.
Feb 1, 2017, 12:06 pm
#118
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,528
Hi all,
Seeing a lot of questions about the reason behind the update to Points & Money and the future of reward prices. We’ve made these changes based on feedback that our members wanted more flexibility for Point redemptions. So now, more of our members can use Points to book stays with nearly any combination of Points & Money. On reward pricing for Standard Awards, there is no change from the current maximum number of Points for each hotel and there are no plans to change this approach.
Thanks and keep the comments/feedback coming,
Lauren
Seeing a lot of questions about the reason behind the update to Points & Money and the future of reward prices. We’ve made these changes based on feedback that our members wanted more flexibility for Point redemptions. So now, more of our members can use Points to book stays with nearly any combination of Points & Money. On reward pricing for Standard Awards, there is no change from the current maximum number of Points for each hotel and there are no plans to change this approach.
Thanks and keep the comments/feedback coming,
Lauren
I think what worries me and others, once we read the actual wording:
"On reward pricing for Standard Awards, there is no change from the current maximum number of Points for each hotel and there are no plans to change this approach."
That doesn't mean there won't be an increase in the points required for "low" season.
Example, currently the "low season" (that I can see) for the Casa Marina, Waldorf in Key West is 59,500 points/night (if booking 7 nights, so you get the 5th night free and the system spreads that out over the 7 nights) for a Standard Room reward.
With the new "dynamic" points, what's to say that Hilton won't decide that oh, well now it's going to be 70k (or 80, etc.)/night because we've determined that "now" it's not low season anymore?
Delta did something similar with their Skymiles by removing the reward chart and going to the "demand" based system where sometimes you win, but more often you lose.
I guess I better book my stay now as I've been saving the points for 16 years before they get devalued any further.
On the "plus" side, I like the hopefully new/better availability for points + cash (you can never use that combo for the Waldorfs in Key West apparently).
Thank you.
Feb 1, 2017, 12:28 pm
#119
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 176
Example, currently the "low season" (that I can see) for the Casa Marina, Waldorf in Key West is 59,500 points/night (if booking 7 nights, so you get the 5th night free and the system spreads that out over the 7 nights) for a Standard Room reward.
With the new "dynamic" points, what's to say that Hilton won't decide that oh, well now it's going to be 70k (or 80, etc.)/night because we've determined that "now" it's not low season anymore?
With the new "dynamic" points, what's to say that Hilton won't decide that oh, well now it's going to be 70k (or 80, etc.)/night because we've determined that "now" it's not low season anymore?
As far as I can tell the change doesn't really give you more or less "security" about the minimum points you need to get a room or "low season point redemption rates".
Feb 1, 2017, 12:32 pm
#120
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,715
Wow - it is hard to fathom how so many savvy FTers have the wool pulled over their eyes w/r/t HHonors. Mark my words: this will turn out to be a massive devaluation, and even worse it will be a sneaky and hidden devaluation as people will forget the category levels that fixed the award price for various properties.
DL went the same route and now there is no way to predict how many miles you will need for any given trip as there are no award charts. So all you can do is look at the current rate and use that as a guide for future trips. But there is no guarantee as DL is free to change the award price whenever and however it wants.
As it currently stands HHonors points have the lowest value of any major hotel program, particularly for the high end rooms that go for 95k points. To be fair HH also has the highest earn rate, though Marriott is not far off and the best Marriott Cat 9 properties only require 45k/night (excluding Ritz).
With all due respect, we appreciate your ongoing engagement with FT, and I know you've been given the party line, but this is complete nonsense. I dare you to show me one member who requested that HHonors eliminate published categories. Also, I do not read your statement as a guarantee that every hotel is forbidden from increasing its award prices this year, but instead that HHonors will not be doing an across-the-board increase for properties when the program changes are rolled out.
95k may be the maximum, but that certainly doesn't prevent lower tier properties from raising award prices at any time. And it will be difficult to track without charts. This really hits those of us who save points for a specific trip, only to find that the ball has suddenly moved out of reach.
I am so glad I blew my huge stash of HH points at the Waldorf Versailles last year.
DL went the same route and now there is no way to predict how many miles you will need for any given trip as there are no award charts. So all you can do is look at the current rate and use that as a guide for future trips. But there is no guarantee as DL is free to change the award price whenever and however it wants.
As it currently stands HHonors points have the lowest value of any major hotel program, particularly for the high end rooms that go for 95k points. To be fair HH also has the highest earn rate, though Marriott is not far off and the best Marriott Cat 9 properties only require 45k/night (excluding Ritz).
Hi all,
Seeing a lot of questions about the reason behind the update to Points & Money and the future of reward prices. We’ve made these changes based on feedback that our members wanted more flexibility for Point redemptions. So now, more of our members can use Points to book stays with nearly any combination of Points & Money. On reward pricing for Standard Awards, there is no change from the current maximum number of Points for each hotel and there are no plans to change this approach.
Thanks and keep the comments/feedback coming,
Lauren
Seeing a lot of questions about the reason behind the update to Points & Money and the future of reward prices. We’ve made these changes based on feedback that our members wanted more flexibility for Point redemptions. So now, more of our members can use Points to book stays with nearly any combination of Points & Money. On reward pricing for Standard Awards, there is no change from the current maximum number of Points for each hotel and there are no plans to change this approach.
Thanks and keep the comments/feedback coming,
Lauren
But that is not true. A free night at Conrad Tokyo is 95k today and remains 95k on 1 March.
Whether, over time, that 95k adjusts to be nearer 0.5c per point is pure speculation. Short term, nothing changes in terms of being able to do 100% points redemptions for the same price.
Whether, over time, that 95k adjusts to be nearer 0.5c per point is pure speculation. Short term, nothing changes in terms of being able to do 100% points redemptions for the same price.
I am so glad I blew my huge stash of HH points at the Waldorf Versailles last year.
