jordanen

SPG's preferred plus is one of those little-known benefits. If you don't have their card, I believe AAA still offers preferred plus for starwood.

elCheapoDeluxe

Amen!

And really, to the OP, you're basing your assessment that Gold is worthless at the entire chain by the existence of resort fees at a vacation destination, representative of a small subset of properties? Wait for it...

Symmetre

As one of those working slobs who only gets gold by flopping in a Hilton bed more nights each year than I would like to, I do have an issue with the company giving out gold status to people who sign up for specific credit cards. Give them silver, fine. But giving them gold removes all incentive for me to spend more than 20 nights a year in their hotels. The whole point of the loyalty program is to encourage customer loyalty. Why undermine it by openly giving away the "benefits" I have to earn the hard way?

Can you guess I'm not terribly impressed with this?

ILovetheReds

And if you were to complain about paying resort fees as a gold, I would completely side with you. My wife spends over around 50 nights a year at Hilton properties and is gold by BIB nights and is considering racking up $40K on her Visa to get diamond.

She has felt some cuts since just this past summer in her gold membership and thinks it's due to Hiltonjust giving out the status so freely. Whilst lounge membership hasn't been guaranteed for golds for at least five years, a lot of properties would still give her access even if she wasn't on the exec level. Recently a few properties that gave her access in the past are now denying access to golds access to the EL. At properties with resort fees, if she complained they would typically knock 50% off, but not any longer (luckilly all the properties I stay at as a diamond still waive them).

took

I have been Gold the past few years based on stays, and I do feel a bit resentful about resort properties charging me for what, in theory, my status has already earned me.

This year, I got the Hilton Reserve CC to maintain gold status and am spreading my nights around to other, fee-free hotels. When a Hilton doesn't have a fee, I'll stay there. When it does, I may not.

Either the status means something or it does not. Either I get FREE wifi, or I do not. Allowing some hotels essentially to opt out of this benefit seems cheap.

Also, on a related note, hotels should include their "fees" in their rates, which I can earn points on. I hate the nickel/dime stuff.

ILovetheReds

Hilton needs to quit giving out gold so freely. Either give silver to their credit card holders or add a level to gold such as gold-30 to golds who actually stay at Hiltons 30+ night a year and waive the resort fees for gold-30's and give them priority for upgrades. A person who has gold by just having a credit card is not a HVC for Hilton properties and I can understand why the property doesn't want to waive the fee for them. Someone that earns gold through stays/nights/points is.

If you try staying at Ceasars by just having the Harrah's credit card they won't waive the resort fee. I believe the only peope they waive it for are Harrah's diamonds/seven seas which requires $100,000 in video poker or $50,000 of coin in on slot machines. The cosmo is not going to waive their resort fee for just having a Marriott credit card, and in fact you won't even get free breakfast or wifi by having their credit card. I am not sure if M-life still has a credit card, but I am sure MGM will not waive the resort fee for having a M-life credit card.

Getting a free weekend night, free breakfast and free wifi are all very generous benefits for having a credit card. Benefits like getting resort fees waived and suite upgrades should be given to people that actually stay in hotels.

I would rather hotels charge the wifi, etc as a different fee instead of adding them on to the fees. It is like a checked bag fee, I would rather those get charged to people who don't frequent a partner much instead of having those costs passed on to frequent customers who may not even use the services.

pinniped

Multiple issues here...perhaps related in some sense but only tangentially.

(1) Resort fees. They are a scourge on the entire industry, imposed by unscrupulous hoteliers while the major brands look the other way. I think many people had hoped that the market would solve the problem in the form of the major brands stepping up and saying "our properties will not do this, period." But they won't, so in the U.S. we must look to the FTC and other government entities who might be able to outlaw this form of fraud. However, it isn't really a loyalty program thing: the hoteliers that use this scam will happily apply it to Diamonds, Golds, and no-status guests.

Where the concept of resort fees intersects with status devaluation is where a hotel tries to justify the resort fee by saying it pays for things that the status should include already. Wifi, gym access, etc. But that's a bit more of a nuanced argument than the one presented in the OP.

(2) Status devaluation. I'm not aware of anything at the current time devaluing Gold status from where it was, say, a month ago. In fact, the current program changes might be a backdoor benefit to a new Gold with no points as some number of Diamonds will inevitably leave the program. For example, you're going to be booking paid stays in places like New York, London, Hawaii, or other "aspirational" locations. In the new system, you will have a lot fewer award guests to compete for upgrades. Gold on a paid stay? You might be the "Guest of the Day!"

(3) Program devaluation. What you get for the points, whether it makes sense to continue staying at Hiltons, etc. For that discussion, I'll just direct you to, well, any other thread on the front page here...

cordelli

Just an update to this thread for a possible change at some properties as to benefits people expect to be getting for "free" at resort fee properties based on their status. In case somebody is searching in the future.

According to the updated terms and conditions, this is no longer true at all properties for gold and diamond members

In-Room High-Speed Internet Access, Fitness Center / Health Club Access, In-Room Movie and Bottled Water benefits may not be complimentary at properties with a resort charge.

lewinr

I think that appeared in the T&Cs last year.

it is just the reflection of reality: "we promised you benefits, but you wont get those benefits at properties with resort fees."

AUDirt

Well said.

Perhaps the most shocking thing about all of this is how HGVC plays into all this.

Know what the status for ownership in HGVC is? Hhonors Silver. I guess it's a "lifetime" silver, whereas CC-status can change year to year. Still, it seems like handing Hilton $20+k in cash should come with something more than that.

FWIW, the HGVC people are putting as much distance between their product and the rest of the Hilton chain as possible since the devaluation. I was in a pitch two weeks ago and the salesman told me point-blank that letting your HGVC pts convert to HHonors points was the same thing as throwing them away.

JDiver

For other charges to the room such as food and services provided by the hotel, there is no YMMV about it - it's clearly spelled out in the HHonors Terms and Conditions. Free WiFi, breakfast (usually Continental, but a number of properties offer or upgrade for free to fully cooked), some properties do upgrade (more likely overseas than in the US), etc. etc. And yes, one uses more points, but one may also earn more points.

Greysword

I would argue part of HHonor's problem is the ineffectual use of the tiers. The sweet spot is clearly Gold with no aspirational requirement to achieve the rewards. Silver is completely worthless, and Diamond reportedly been stripped to the point of no longer being worth the effort (outside of $40k in everyday spend).

I think Hilton can easilyclean upsomeof this mess by transfering some most desired benefits to Silver (free internet, continental breakfast) and make this thebase credit card level. Then, they make it $30k (or more) to it Gold via credit card,which gives full breakfast and the current upgrade chance, as well as current amenities like point bonus or food/beverage. Then disconnect Diamond from the cards altogether, making it truely aspirational.

By simply shifting the current status amenities and requirements down one level, HHonors could recover quickly.

ILovetheReds

I would say give silver out with credit cards, give free wifi but no breakfast. The lounges are already too overcrowded at a couple properties such as the Palmer House and LAX Hilton where the golds get access to the lounge since there is no other breakfast option. That would lead to even more overcrowding. Hyatt gives free wifi with their credit card but no breakfast and Marriott doesn't even give you free wifi with silver which is what you get with the credit card. By having the credit card and getting free wifi and the free night a year, card holders are still getting a good deal.

And don't be giving out gold and diamond with a credit card alone but increase the benefits. Hilton should do what Marriott, SPG and Hyatt does and give out nights/stay credit towards status after $xxx in spend instead of just giving the status away.

With gold, Hilton should restore the lounge benefits regardless of the room type the gold has and give a guaranteed 2 p.m. check out.

For diamonds give a full breakfast, restore the diamond force on reward stays, and give a guaranteed 4 p.m. checkout and give out guaranteed suite upgrades certificates.

And waive the resort fees for golds and diamonds. I can understand properties not wanting to waive resort fees for golds as easy as the status is to get currently.

Some properties are even charging diamonds the fee now You shoudln't be charging resort fees to your best guests.

pinniped

Programs seem to usually go the other direction - taking away things from the lower tiers and creating new higher tiers if necessary.

But they could, in theory, accomplish most of what you're talking about by creating subclasses of Diamond the way Starwood has done. Not that I'm *dying* to see them do this (as I'm sure I wouldn't make the top-top tier), it does seem like a good way to differentiate the 100-plus-night Platinum from the 21-night Platinum (or, in the HH system, a credit card Diamond).

Greysword

I would not really enjoy that idea, pinnipped. I would like to have an achievable mid-level tier (with some effort) that has a few aspirational benefits (like Gold has now). Increasing the top tier doesn't help much. However, it would be an excellent addition to the program instead of a replacement! ^

I do agree with red's ideas. Anything to help inflate Silver, so the cards go there, instead. I would also be ok with a night/stay credit, even if it is the same as Silver, so the bridge to Gold for card holders is lower, but still requires stays.

HHonors has an easy opportunity to use Silver as a ballast, as I see it. Maybe I'm off, but sure would be easier for them and nice for us. <shrug>