Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Hotels and Places to Stay > Hilton | Hilton Honors
Reload this Page >

2013 Changes to HH Reward Stays, new cat., more pts needed

2013 Changes to HH Reward Stays, new cat., more pts needed

Old Feb 27, 13, 12:21 pm
  #751  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 158
Here you go folks. I took the PDF that hilton put out and extracted every hotel (I think) with its new category number. Here's a summary:


and here are the hotels that are categories 9 & 10

Last edited by AnthonyF1227; Feb 27, 13 at 12:42 pm
AnthonyF1227 is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 12:35 pm
  #752  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: HHonors, SPG, ClubCarlson, AAdvantage, BA Avios, US Dividend Miles, UA MileagePlus, Delta SkyPesos
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by azepine00 View Post
The difference is that some such as SPG or Hyatt (or UA and AA miles) simply keep up with inflation, economy and currency adjustments. They honor the value of their currency.
Within reasonable inflation I value those points and miles not too far from how I valued them 3-5 years ago (even though elite benefits are deteriorating but that's unrelated).

On the other hand other entities such as Hilton or Delta devalue points and miles year after year. It's no accident - those companies have a well planned goal of making sure a mile or a point you earn today will be worth substantially less tomorrow.
My bet is that Hilton cashes in big time. They sell points to credit card companies, airlines, whomever will buy them. Then, they run some sort of model to figure out how often in the future that they need to make adjustments to redemption rates. As many have noted, a number of properties actually have gone down in terms of points needed for award, particularly during "less busy" months, thereby encouraging people to use points when the hotel isn't full anyway. Instead of loathing the churners, Hilton has figured out how to sell their points for more extra cash than the nominal amounts of dough which churners actually cost them. Consequently, the program rewards churning and credit card loyalty as much or more than actually stays at Hilton properties. The business model is strong, at least for now.
LowFlyOver is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 1:13 pm
  #753  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by luv2ctheworld View Post
I don't recall any airline/hotel award program ever backtracking on their devaluation; regardless of how many of their members boycott or jump ship to other programs.

The only thing you or anyone who wants their concerns made clear is to send Hilton a copy of your stay that would have gone to Hilton, and let them know this is costing them real money/customers. Or, cancel existing paid reservations and let them know why.

It won't do anything, but it will help with the process of acceptance for what it is.
I appreciate the responses, but I don't think it's the right thing to sit back and roll over. I've been a loyal part of the program for over a decade; this isn't something that we should just accept. Makers Mark reversed their dumb decision because of very vocal customers. Why can't Hilton?
phi177 is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 1:19 pm
  #754  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ATL
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,061
I feel the same way, lots of little grains of sand wind up making a seashore. Besides re-directing stays to other chains and minimizing Hilton CC spend,keep making comments on social media as well, it couldn't hurt.
Notenut is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 1:26 pm
  #755  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, United States
Programs: AA, BA, UA, Spirit, Delta, PC Plat, SPG Gold, HHonors Diamond, Club Carlson Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,735
Originally Posted by phi177 View Post
I appreciate the responses, but I don't think it's the right thing to sit back and roll over. I've been a loyal part of the program for over a decade; this isn't something that we should just accept. Makers Mark reversed their dumb decision because of very vocal customers. Why can't Hilton?
While I believe you're overreacting, if you're truly outraged with the changes just take your business elsewhere. It's not rolling over. Just remember the adage about the best revenge and plan your trips accordingly. Easy as a pie.
mnscout is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 1:47 pm
  #756  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Exactly, Notenut. I don't think there's anything wrong with voicing our opinions and letting the company know we're upset. This change is absurd.

Mnscout, I don't believe I'm overreacting at all. For the places that I like to stay, my point value has been cut in half. I can no longer take the trips that I wanted to take. Incremental changes, sure--but we just went through one in 2009. That was enough. Of course, I'm outraged. Grandfather Gold/Diamond members in to the old structure or something, but don't slash the value of the points that your most loyal members and brand ambassadors worked to earn.

:-: I encourage you all to follow @HiltonDisHonors on Twitter to voice your concerns and hear the concerns of other loyal members who feel devalued.
phi177 is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 1:58 pm
  #757  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold
Posts: 13,429
Originally Posted by phi177 View Post
Exactly, Notenut. I don't think there's anything wrong with voicing our opinions and letting the company know we're upset. This change is absurd.

Mnscout, I don't believe I'm overreacting at all. For the places that I like to stay, my point value has been cut in half. I can no longer take the trips that I wanted to take. Incremental changes, sure--but we just went through one in 2009. That was enough. Of course, I'm outraged. Grandfather Gold/Diamond members in to the old structure or something, but don't slash the value of the points that your most loyal members and brand ambassadors worked to earn.

:-: I encourage you all to follow @HiltonDisHonors on Twitter to voice your concerns and hear the concerns of other loyal members who feel devalued.
I'm hoping the replacement for the AXON will be a discounted rate for diamonds. I'm sure Hiltons IT department can't handle it, but they need to offer discounted redemptions to their members that actually stay and spend money at their properties.
jamesteroh is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 2:02 pm
  #758  
Formerly known as cagalindo
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: MCO TPA
Programs: Citi AA/HH/TYP Amex SPG/HH & Chase SP/PC
Posts: 1,334
they could make AXON awards avail only to diamonds... at least c'mon...

ps: im not even a diamond!
caGALINDO is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 2:30 pm
  #759  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Minneapolis, originally from Cincinnati
Programs: Diamond with Delta, Hyatt and Hilton. 2 MM and Plat with America (thank you citi:))
Posts: 2,345
Originally Posted by phi177 View Post
Exactly, Notenut. I don't think there's anything wrong with voicing our opinions and letting the company know we're upset. This change is absurd.

Grandfather Gold/Diamond members in to the old structure or something, but don't slash the value of the points that your most loyal members and brand ambassadors worked to earn.
They should grandfather in people who EARNED gold and diamond. I feel that anyone that has 15 or so stays or 45 nights or 5,000 base points in the past 12 months should be grandfathered in or have a different redemption structure.

People who have gold status by having a Citi Reserve or doing four stays in a year through an MVP or other fast track and only have four or five stays a year at Hilton are not their most loyal guests and didn't work to "earn" the status.

Come on Hilton, let the people that stay in your hotels enjoy some R&R time in your properties for our vacation instead of giving away the points and status to CC churners.
ILovetheReds is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 2:33 pm
  #760  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Minneapolis, originally from Cincinnati
Programs: Diamond with Delta, Hyatt and Hilton. 2 MM and Plat with America (thank you citi:))
Posts: 2,345
Originally Posted by Notenut View Post
I feel the same way, lots of little grains of sand wind up making a seashore. Besides re-directing stays to other chains and minimizing Hilton CC spend,keep making comments on social media as well, it couldn't hurt.
Hilton's FB site seems to delete post they don't like. I know there were quite a few posts from HH gold and diamond members who earned their status complaining about them giving out status so easilly when the Citi Reserve card was introduced and they deleted all those posts. I left a post complaining about the changes on the HH facebook page as well as the FB page of two properties I stay at on points frequently and those posts were removed as well.
ILovetheReds is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 2:38 pm
  #761  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Minneapolis, originally from Cincinnati
Programs: Diamond with Delta, Hyatt and Hilton. 2 MM and Plat with America (thank you citi:))
Posts: 2,345
The HAMPTON TS North and NY Hilton will be the same category as the Waldorf London and the Cavalieri in Rome??????? Whoever set these rates has obviously never been to all four of those properties.
ILovetheReds is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 2:46 pm
  #762  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by ILovetheReds View Post
The HAMPTON TS North and NY Hilton will be the same category as the Waldorf London and the Cavalieri in Rome??????? Whoever set these rates has obviously never been to all four of those properties.
All about location. Times Square vs. Outskirts of Rome...
AnthonyF1227 is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 3:36 pm
  #763  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 415
Originally Posted by AnthonyF1227 View Post
All about location. Times Square vs. Outskirts of Rome...
Or prices. NY is one place I was looking to redeem my points because the cash price is $250-$350 per night plus tax the dates I checked.
msc75 is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 3:56 pm
  #764  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: HHonors, SPG, ClubCarlson, AAdvantage, BA Avios, US Dividend Miles, UA MileagePlus, Delta SkyPesos
Posts: 137
Extra Cash Scheme vs. "Loyalty Program"

My advice to those who are so disappointed is to stop viewing rewards programs as "Loyalty Programs" and start viewing them as the cash-earning schemes for airlines and hotels that they really are. The days of these things being purely loyalty programs ended years ago when all of the major players realized that they could cash in on selling their points & miles. Exclusive reward for true loyalty, as in simply choosing that brand to stay or fly, is limited and will continue to erode in the current model. Once you get past the mentality of "loyalty program" and start to think about how you might game the system through churning and diversification, you will be less distraught over the program changes which you know will happen. How soon do you think it will be before domestic SAVER fares on the major airlines creep to 30, 35, or 40k miles? It WILL happen. The questions are "When?" and "How well-prepared will you be?".

Last edited by LowFlyOver; Feb 28, 13 at 8:55 am
LowFlyOver is offline  
Old Feb 27, 13, 4:24 pm
  #765  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: LAX
Programs: UA Silver, AA, WN, DL
Posts: 3,966
Originally Posted by AnthonyF1227 View Post
Here you go folks. I took the PDF that hilton put out and extracted every hotel (I think) with its new category number. Here's a summary:...
Appreciate the effort; but to make it truly effective, a comparison of the Old/Existing category will really make it obvious the devaluation. Otherwise there's no relative comparison.

Originally Posted by phi177 View Post
I appreciate the responses, but I don't think it's the right thing to sit back and roll over. I've been a loyal part of the program for over a decade; this isn't something that we should just accept. Makers Mark reversed their dumb decision because of very vocal customers. Why can't Hilton?
Don't get me wrong, I think making a protest isn't a bad thing or shouldn't be done, it's just realistically, it has no chance of changing their mind.

Maker's Mark had an entirely different issue on their hands. They were diluting the product, the ACTUAL product, so that they can get more supply/availability. This is a big difference because people are paying CASH/real money for that product. On the other hand, HHonors is basically jacking up AWARD points, meaning it is not directly equivalent to cash, but a by product of their so called "loyalty" program.

I think a more appropriate analogy for Hilton to what Maker's Mark did would be if you pay cash for what they call a suite but instead got a deluxe room, then in all likelihood Hilton would certainly be forced to change it.

Originally Posted by msc75 View Post
Or prices. NY is one place I was looking to redeem my points because the cash price is $250-$350 per night plus tax the dates I checked.
Another sad reality. Award points are going to get more and more devalued. This can be seen by what Southwest, JetBlue, and possibly what Delta will do with FBATR (fare based award ticket redemption). DL is going in the direction of "monetary" qualification as part of elite status (effective for 2014).

This is the trend that "loyalty" programs are coming to... which is basically a derivative of how much money one actually spends on the brand/company, regardless of frequency (i.e. number of nights or number of flights or miles). To them, they want to award qualitative "spenders", not the guys who rack up points or miles based upon cheap nights or fares.

Originally Posted by LowFlyOver View Post
My advice to those who are so disappointed is to stop viewing rewards programs as "Loyalty Programs" and start viewing them as the cash-earning schemes for airlines and hotels that they really are. The days of these things being purely loyalty programs ended years ago when all of the major players realized that they could cash in on selling their points & miles. Exclusive reward for true loyalty, as in simply choosing that brand to stay or fly, is limited and will continue erode in the current model. Once you get past the mentality of "loyalty program" and start to think about how you might game the system through churning and diversification, you will be less distraught over the program changes which you know will happen. How soon do you think it will be before domestic SAVER fares on the major airlines creep to 30, 35, or 40k miles? It WILL happen. The questions are "When?" and "How well-prepared will you be?".
Sad, but true...
luv2ctheworld is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: