Except it's not a new program and people are not starting from scratch. Travelers chose to stay at Hiltons and points were earned based on existing redemption rates, some of which have skyrocketed.

I think if they were truly fair, they'd inflate our HHonors points to match the increase :P

But seriously, inflation is reality; however, the rate of inflation Hilton has made is ridiculous. And why should customers view it as a new program if they spent money earning it under the old one? Would you consider your wage to be equally subject to such rapid loss in value and feel that it is as simple as throw out the past?

I am afraid this will be the ultimate direction all airlines and hotels will go... DL just introduced their dollar spend criteria (MQD) as part of elite status; they supposedly will have the other shoe drop when they implement Fare Based Award Travel Redemption (FBATR) where redemption amount will be tied directly to fare value. Jet Blue pioneered this and Southwest RR 2.0 really made this a common concept (given their wide presence).

Everyone is tying points/miles to dollars spent... forget the loyalty aspect of it.

I am truly hoping I am wrong (and Delta sucks dirt), but like all these additional fees popping up, it's likely the trend.

That makes sense, although IMO it never made sense to do anything else. Five UR points equals 5 flexible, immediately transferable points/miles in the UA, Hyatt, Amtrak, etc. programs (where returns of 2-3 cents/pt are not hard to come by). I'd say 6 HH points wasn't competitive with that even before the Great Disemboweling we've just witnessed.

4 credit cards. Transfers from Hawaii and Virgin. 6x bonuses. Hilton caused their own devaluation and we are simply caught up in it. It is now making full sense why the credit cards are changing their bonus spending structures 2 months after HH changes redemption rates. HH is trying to reel back in the billions of points that are out there from non-frequent hotel guests. As pissed as I am about these changes, I will be even more upset if they don't learn from this. As a gold, I shouldn't have accumulated more points last year from spend and CC bonuses than I did from stays.

That's why I used the more conservative 3X rate in my example.

And I will be taking maximum advantage of the 6X rate until May. ;)

That's true - but if people are considering jumping ship, they should compare competing programs based on which ones give them the best bang for their buck and not decide based on the emotion associated with recent events.

VRs at CVS can dry up at any moment, and in fact are not available via CC at some locations. They vanished at OM overnight.

Planning ahead more than a day is problematic.

Would you be able to run the numbers and provide the average point change in the hotels that got cheaper and for the hotels that got worse?

Thank you,
David

Wow, I just now found out about this. I was lucky enough to get a New Year's Eve room at the DoubleTree Times Square this past year. Using a VIP award, I spent 170k for 4 nights. Now the same award would be 380k for 4 nights.

The inflation from 170k to 380k for the exact same room is absurd!

They basically don't want people redeeming awards at their most popular hotels. Period.

3 programs with dramatic devaluations in such short time frame..major rat.

I just burned 270000 mr points and am changing all Hilton and marriott reservations to points. Already burned 600.000 sky pesos on tickets
As well.
Lesson learned, devaluation is constant, use them

Has anyone recently tried a SPG Plat match for HH DIA status? I'm planning to book 24 nights in Sydney in a couple months for a grand total of $7,000... wouldn't mind staying at the Westin if I could get comp Plat and lounge access over the Hilton Sydney... will help towards getting to lifetime Plat too... so i never have to think about considering HH as an option again and having to keep going out of my way to help hilton by staying in their properties wherever i go...

Thanks for the analysis. The spreadsheet is very helpful. However the broad brush analysis I think paints an overly rosy picture of the situation that is not reflective of how people maximize the program. The reality is that the worst his properties are far and away the most popular ones, whereas those that have improved are, for the most part, not very attractive.

By way of example if I look at the 232 of 2252 hotels which are cheaper all 12 months of the year it is literred with gems like Hampon Inn Columbus-Airport, Hampton Inn Darien I-95, Hilton Garden Inn Atlanta Northpoint etc. Not exactly the stuff of dreams. In addition the decrease is only very minimal.

Whereas the properties that are going up in the most are the high end aspirational stuff like Conrad Maldives going from a best rate of 37.5k to a best rate of 76k assuming a five night stay, just over double the rate.

And if you start to look in between the lines closer and see some properties where the rates are higher some months but lower in others... well of course that is generally in the months you'd actually want to go there. I couldn't find Whistler in your spreadsheet, but that is one that is the same for many month, but during the ski season when people actually want to go it is very substantially more.

So please don't "reward" HH with over-rosy analysis suggesting it's "not that bad" :p

Oh - my hand is up - I know the answer to this one - "not very"

Bravo, i'm going to research and perhaps plan the same... i'm already not even 2 months in the year and have 10 stays with HH, what have I been doing?!!

Some of us have a choice when we travel and that doesn't include lining hilton's coffers with $50k / year... x 100,000 upset hhonors members, let's consider taking our business where they appreciate a lifetime of loyalty... Where is William.....

I am not personally going to get anything more out of the change to the travel policies with this change. We encourage all of our frequent travelers to join every loyalty program. We consider frequent guest and flyer programs part of the compensation or employee benefit, to those who sacrifice the ability to be home every night. This change is based on ethics, Hilton has led myself, and all of us that are part of HHonors to take a gentleman's agreement. That unspoken agreement allows for minor devaluations from time to time to adjust for inflation. They have violated that agreement in my opinion, devaluing the rewards for those that report under me, and myself. Thus in the best interest of the company I work for, we are moving our business away from one that I don't feel has the general Business Ethics to warrant a relationship going forward.

Figures, I just got my first Hilton card 2 weeks ago. I guess I'll hit the $750/50K spend, and then just sit on it for a while to see what happens.

How ?

Sweet! Hello Kimpton Boston, Goodbye Hilton Back Bay! Plus I get to book on hotels.com and earn my Welcome Rewards points too.... 10% back, and cash back, SWEET!!! Plus 7 stays = 1 free night and 10 nights = 1 free night with hotels.com, so that's close to stay 5 nights, get 1 night free, every time.... plus a suite...

http://www.kimptonhotels.com/hotels/locations.aspx

That's sort of the point; they don't want $500-800 a night hotel rooms on 37.5K/night points rewards giving people effective returns of 1-2 cents per HH point.

It's bad if your goal is to redeem for aspirational properties, which is why a lot of bloggers are moaning and groaning, because, well, part of their deal is writing blog posts about how awesome these properties they are staying at are, and oh, look, here's a link to a branded credit card that will help get you there!

If on the other hand, you're like cblaisd... it might not really be so bad.

It all boils down to this...

Hotels: Record Demand in 2012, Near 2008 Room Rates, Little New Supply

Wow. The Hampton Inn in Kingsport Tennessee goes to a Category 7 at 60,000 points a night? That's the same rate as the Beverly Hilton.

It's a nice enough Hampton Inn, and I stay there a lot, but 60K points a night? That's crazy. :rolleyes:

I've never seen a rate higher than $140 except for Bristol race weekends.

David

For the record, I (Gold status) got my HHonors e-mail at 1:02 PM EST. Sheesh.

I have been diamond for 11 years, and this is the last straw. I have 1.1m points and had planned on a family vacation to blow these next year. I cannot book by 3/28 by the way. I normally stay in high end Hiltons and Conrads in Asia and use the points for high end HH hotels. SO this is it finally.

What is the best option to get matched status and move from these people at HH? I mainly travel in the Far-EAST.

I just booked Conrad Koh Samui for 6 nights for our special wedding anniversary....in late 2014. It is approx. $800 a night. I booked 6 nights for 225,000 points (37.5K/night). Assuming no GLON, this same booking will cost 475,000 points (95K/night incl. 1 free night). That a whopping 250,000 more points!!

I earn about 9 - 12K HH points thru AMEX spending. It would take me at least 20 more months to earn the extra points required if I had to pay the new redemption rate. Anyways, I am glad to lock it in now and be points poor.

From Kimpton's website:

"These stays are ineligible and, sadly, won't earn you a darn thing:

Stays booked on third-party websites like Hotwire, Priceline, Expedia, Hotels.com, Travelocity or Orbitz.
Stays that use a complimentary night reward
Stays booked with special rates for airline crew members, travel agents and Kimpton employees."

It is getting kind of comical. SPG announces first devaluation (cash+points) and everyone rants and flocks to Marriott. Then Marriott announces major devaluation and we all (myself included) rant about cancelling our Marriott cards and moving to Hilton. Now Hilton announces a big devaluation... :mad:

It is becoming clear there is no safe harbor anymore, and also that it will be increasingly difficult to get much more than $ .005 per point, much less $ .01

So perhaps the program that will win the most converts will be the ones that provide the biggest point bonuses (since more points will be needed for redemption) or the best perks for elites (seeing as the measely points won't incentivize customers).

If consumers are paying attention (doubtful) the biggest losers will be Chase, Citi, Amex etc. because people will stop using their cards to earn increasingly worthless points.

Hopefully Ric will post a new comparison chart on Loyalty Traveler that analyzes all the changes to determine which program is now best for high value premium season rewards. I'm guessing it won't be HHonors.

Addedum: the only silver lining is a psychological one for those of us who used points to redeem for rooms that were overpriced, i.e. 40k for a Hampton. I now feel really good about cashing in last weekend and saving some major coin by using points instead of paying absurd room rates. Will be doing more of that soon.

Bingo! And their prediction is going to come true - they are going to find their formerly most loyal customers are even less valuable as we start picking hotels based on price, promos or worse yet, head for priceline.

SPG announcement
 

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starw...y-changes.html

Not bad at all.

How did you do it in late 2014? Just call to book?

Exactly. And when HH announces their new EL and full breakfast programs later this year, there will be a certain percentage that migrate back. Continual see-saw.

I'm kinda liking the idea previously mentioned of making March 28
"National Cancel Your Hilton CC Day". Even if only a few thousand accounts were canceled surely somebody would notice.

Hilton.....shame on you! I'm out.

My 12 day stay in two rooms in Moorea (next year, can't move it up) is going from 870,000 (AXON) to 1,280,000 for 10 days (assuming that AXON will be gone). I will burn my 1,500,000 points and take my business somewhere else.

Hilton, you're kidding yourself if you think we will take this laying down. Devaluation is expected, but you're way off here. How did you think we would respond to this? You're alienating your best customers. How stupid is that.

HORRIBLE!!!!

Do tell us how this worked? I've tried booking more than a year out before and the agent told me it wasn't possible.

Thanks.

This is GREAT analysis. Thank much! Any obervations on the shift in the UK properties?

they are going to lose all the frequent travelers... this was a dumb move

Wow. After ten years of Diamond, I think it's time to just give up on Hilton. My spend hasn't devalued, but the reward is significantly impacted.

Timothy

Oh well... more Starwood. Eight more years to Lifetime Platinum!

Book up to 2 years in advance.
 

1. Log into HHonors.
2. Search for a hotel, check off Use HHnors Points (I used Feb 2014).
3. Click "Book a room" in the results.
4. Click "Change" on top where it says "Reservation Summary".
5. Change the travel dates to as far as 2 years out.

This worked for all the properties I was looking at.

We will see - I responded in January to all the "gloom and doom / the sky is falling" posters who kept saying that VR at CVS would be killed any day. I said that I believe we will continue to see them available for CC purchase for the foreseeable future, and that if they are still there by April 1st, I will be proven right.

Regardless, even with the latest HHonors changes, everyone should be buying VR with an HH CC hand over fist. No other chain can beat being able to buy a point for $4 / 3000 = $.0013 . We just reserved 5 nights at a cat 5 Hilton over Easter break for a GLON rate of 140,000 points. The current cash rate for the room is about $1500. Let's see, I will wind up paying 140,000 x $.0013 = $186 . What are you people complaining about? Let's see you get that kind of deal with any other chain. Even if if I had to pay double ($372) or quadruple ($744), I am still getting the room at a tremendous discount.

This is very useful info!! Thanks. I was thinking I need to burn all my points by next march but this gives me some more options! Will be difficult to plan that far ahead with no flexibility but that is the price to get the current rates!

Wow....devaluation is expected, but not to this degree.

This and a lack of a lifetime program will cause me to move away from Hilton. I've been Diamond for 16 years straight, and it feels like that doesn't matter to Hilton anymore. I used to rave about how great the program was (remember the SAF8 reward for a free week long private safari for 250,000 points?) to all my co-workers and now I feel guilty that I got them to switch to Hilton.

I guess I will work on changing them to another program. Now I just need to burn 1,000,000 points.

Booo.

Typo here somewhere. Cat 5 would run 140K; cat 6 would run 160K.

Do you have an actual reservation/certificate?

This is what I did when trying to do a reservation 2 years out and once I checked my account something was wrong. If I remember correctly the certificate expired before the reservation started. I had to call CS and the agent said I had the reservation but the certificate wouldn't be any good at that point.

Yes, in theory you can do this online, but when it comes down to it, do you have an actual reservation with a certificate that hasn't expired?

Can you please advise if this is the case?

Thanks.

OOps - you are right, it is a cat 5 (I was getting it confused with the Hilton Bonnet Creek where we will be later in the year). Everything else I stated is correct - $1500 cash for the 5 nights or 140,000 HH points which cost me $186. When I also factor in the perks that are thrown in for gold or diamond status, Marriott / SPG / Hyatt don't provide the same value (though I do have the Marriott / SPG / Hyatt credit cards and do stay with all of them occasionally).