abigezunt

I just stayed at the HGVC Orlando Seaworld location. Got a great deal, but had to listen to a 90 minute sales pitch for Hilton timeshare.
I liked what i heard and bought it(3800 points about $11,000)!!
I have 10 days to cancel.
I would like to get advice from this experienced community.
Thanks in advance.


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Bourne

Depends on how you see it.

If you want HHonors points value, you just bought a contract for receiving 87,400 HHonors points each year, every year for the rest of your life. ( 1 CP = 23 HH ). This is the base minimum valuation.

The value increases if you were to use the points at overlapping locations , i.e. Hilton Hawaiian Village, Orlando, Las Vegas etc. 100K HHonors points and 1600-2200 Club points buy you the same thing. The valuation then shoot up to 200K.

As you would like to have some flexibility, a points dump to HHonors one year and usage of club points one year gives you an approx valuation of around 150K per year. ( After using banking and points dump option.)

The above valuation of 150K is just a personal estimate. Rest is upon you.

Do you consider it a good deal paying a one time price of 11,000 for a 150K HH every year for the rest of your life. ( + Silver VIP for life ).

Disclosure : I own a HGVC timeshare, and the answer to the above question for me was "yes".

Following is a link that has data used for the above calculations.

http://members.hgvc.com/MemberGuide/...s/usechart.gif


Here is a link to a detailed summary.

http://members.hgvc.com/MemberGuide/





[This message has been edited by Bourne (edited 07-07-2001).]

BillMorrow

In general, Time Shares are not for everyone and are of questionable economics.

I would strongly suggest you visit the Time Share Users Group, TUGNet. The folks there are the real experts on Time Shares. They are the equivalent of FlyerTalk for TS users. It costs about $10-15 to join (you can participate in the BBS for free), but if you are considering spending $11K, then.....

GeorgeJ

Abigezunt, the advise you'll get on TUG is to cancel your contract and buy resale.

You should be able to get 5000 HGVC points per year for the $5000-7000 range..

magic111

We are another set of owners of HGVC and unless you have the time the economics can become questionable.
But we generally have the time and for our investment of 10k five years ago (4800 points) we have the option by working the system of converting that into as much as six weeks per year in the off seasons or 3 weeks in the shoulder seasons or as was pointed out into 1.5 to 2 weeks in the high season.
This includes las, mia, mco, hnl, scotland, mexico or the west coast of florida.
We have traded our week for canalboats in England (comparable price over 1k gbp per week during the season we went in.) As Bourne pointed out the lowest thing to do with the HGVC points though is to convert them to HHonors unless you absolutely have to bank them (something we had to do this year as my wife changed jobs and "we had been working the system" & ran out of vacation time.)
I guess for us though one of the better points is that we have bought a lifetime of vacations and we also get to leave it to our children for a lifetime of vacations as an inheritance as we own the deeds. Yes we pay property taxes every year but luckily property taxes are not high in Nevada.
Also have to agree with GeorgeJ that the best place to pick up points is at resale. A tremendous amount of the cost that you have paid is for marketing. Probably you have received 200k hh points as a bonus (we did) but is that really worth the extra expense. If we had to do it over we would buy at resale and when we get closer to retirement we will pick up some more points at resale either HGVC or Marriot vacation club.

abigezunt

Thank you all for your good advice.
I did some more research myself and i found HGVC packages on Timeshare resale market for about half the price that Hilton is
selling. I asked Hilton to explain and they had some lame excuse that they have the first right of refusal (which according to the
reseller, they never exercise)and i woud not be guaranteed to be able to buy at the resale price. Yeah sure
In any case, i canceled my contract.
Was an interesting experience.

JetTroop

My wife and I are booked for August. I'm curious as to how the whole experience was?

abigezunt

nice rooms,good location. great facilities. not happy with the maid service.the first 2 nights no maid service.(as a paying guest!!)
the presentation is quite good,less pressure than i expected. now you know what to expect. ask them and let us know what they have to say about the resale market.
enjoy it!!

JetTroop

Thanks for the response, we're looking forward to it! I'll be sure to ask about the resale. We really have no intention of buying anything but for a nice room for 3 nights and free tickets to Universal plus the bonus points..it's a deal!

Bourne

For a couple of hundred more, HGVC would let you upgrade to a promotion going on for tickets to Discovery cove ( including a swim with dolphins ) and two tickets to seaworld. Deduct a hundred and they take out the dolphins but keep the discovery cove.




[This message has been edited by Bourne (edited 07-13-2001).]

zipual

abigezunt:

Where did you find the info on the resale of the HGVC timeshares?

Bourne

Triwest Timeshare
http://www.triwest-timeshare.com/

Hotel Timeshare resales
http://www.htr4timeshare.com/hilton_list.html

As these two are the most reputed ones, I am picking data from these as a part of my calculation.

Following chart is based on prices quoted to me at two locations, abigezunt, magic111 and presumed price at a different location. Any other input would be greatly appreciated.

One assumption for abigezunt 3800:11000::3400:10000

Resort----Price--Points--Resale--%Diff.
HGV ORD--18500--7000--15500--16%
HGV LVH--14750--5000--12500--15%
abigezunt-10000--3400---8500--15%
Magic111-10000--4800--10500--(-5%)**
HGV LVH--18500--7000--15900--14%***

**( Goes to speak the the price has appreciated to nullify the differential )
***Going by the figure of Orlando for 7000 at 18500 and using at Las Vegas

Based on the above fact, it seems that Hilton and other hotel timeshares have managed to keep the timeshare resale market under a 20% differential.
Yes, it is a know fact that the timeshare resale market gives you a 25-40% cheaper rate than retail. Somehow, due to market conditions, this does not seem to hold true for Hotel timeshares. Is it that the hotels have the first right of refusal clause on the contract which helps them to keep the price on check or is the quality and flexibility far superior than regular timeshares.

A few other things to consider.
At joining you get anywhere from 160-280K bonus points for 7000 contract and 100-200 bonus points for 5000 contract .

Buy retail or resale, like Randy put it in his June Cover Story of InsideFlyer
Call them what you will -- timeshares, or vacation ownerships, are fast becoming the hottest travel investments -- your ticket to leveraging your points and vacation plans.




[This message has been edited by Bourne (edited 07-13-2001).]

magic111

Bourne Thanks for the info on the resale of hotel/points clubs. I had never researched it in depth and always thought the resale value was in the range of time-share weeks. Was surprised to learn that the value of our points have appreciated since we purchased.
One of the things that helped us though is that we were involved in the reevaluation of weeks at the Flamingo. We had purchased 3400 points (gold 1 bdr) and recieved a one class upgrade automatically along with all the other owners at Flamingo to 4800 points (plat 1 bdr) after an increased demand for the property.
Otherwise without the extra points we would still be at 15% differential.

abigezunt

following are the prices that i was quoted by Timeshare Resale of Americas,in Daytona Beach
HGV LVH : 3400 pts.-$6000 ($500 fees)
HGV LVH : 5000 pts.-$8500 ($630 fees)
HGV ORL : 7000 pts.-$12500 ($700 fees)
these discounts are way more than 15% off
there is so much inventory that could be sold at each property, for example
HGVC Orl aprx.400 Unit x 52 weeks =20800 potential owners(Hilton told me they have systemwide apprx 40-45,000 owners !!) multiply this by the 32 properties Hilton already built (avg 350 unit units) and you can make your own calculation.
I am not about to refute the value of timeshare and i still believe that Hilton has the superior product, but according to my numbers it is not the greatest investemnt unless the price is really attractive.
happy vacationing to you all

Bourne

I called up and confirmed the prices. The 3400 for 6K was available and another 7000 for 13500.

Here are some more...
http://www.wdwinfo.com/timeshare3/tslisting1.cfm

Not to get off on a rant here ( Dennis Miller ), but the point I am trying to make is not that retail or resale is better. I would definately buy resale if I had to.

What I am trying to say here is that timeshares as we know them are a much maligned industry and for a good reason. High marketing cost factored in price, no flexibility of stay, questionable quality and limited exchange options. Hotel timeshares ( Marriott, Hilton, Starwood and Hyatt ) are a breed apart. No one can question their quality and with the points based system, you have great exchange options and very high flexibility. ( Like magic111 put it, you could stretch one week to three weeks at HHV or in some places upto six weeks ). These, however come at a cost. This cost can be pulled lower by foraging into the resale market where you get a better bang for the buck.

Let me put it this way. If you count the number of people on FT who have consistently managed to keep a top level elite status on airlines and hotels ( naturally, the points and miles add up ) over a period of 7-10 years or more, they would be only a handful. The reason is that it requires persistence, dedication and a will to consistently spend time and effort towards this goal. ( and a company that allows a lot of business travel to keep costs down ). To maintain all the factors listed above again over the period of 20-30 years is a tall order, if not improbable.

Atleast looking into a Starwood timeshare ( for miles ), Hilton or Marriott( for stays ) with an open mind is not a bad idea. For some frequent flyers, it can be an equivalent of having a 401K-FF retirement savings account, while getting on that next flight for a great mileage run ( buying tech stocks on Nasdaq ). Tech stocks fly high and would pay off, but atlest you know you have a safety net to retire on just in case.

*******
$15.5K in the resale market buys you
Hilton - 7000pts = 160K HHonors per Year
Starwood - 150K Staroptions = 80K StarPoints Per year
Both can be willed as they are deeded property.

[This message has been edited by Bourne (edited 07-13-2001).]