Premium Room Reward only at certain properties - Major Devaluation of HH points
Oct 31, 2011, 8:41 am
#661
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,093
[Netflix and Bank of America didn't learn any painful lessons from customers voting with their wallets; they learned painful lessons initiated by customers publicly embarrassing them for their customer-unfriendly ways. Losing money was the result of those companies being publicly embarrassed online and oflline.]
Oct 31, 2011, 9:05 am
#662
Join Date: May 2003
Location: CA
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 2,879
Hilton isn't Netflix or Bank of America, and there is no great customer-friendly lesson that Hilton Worldwide/HHonors management are going to learn anytime soon from this situation. Over the course of the past ten years, this management team and its new owners have come to reaffirm their m.o. that gutting the value proposition of the program points for customers hasn't created any great financial difficulty for them or their affiliated properties that would arise from chasing off customers.
[Netflix and Bank of America didn't learn any painful lessons from customers voting with their wallets; they learned painful lessons initiated by customers publicly embarrassing them for their customer-unfriendly ways. Losing money was the result of those companies being publicly embarrassed online and oflline.]
Bottom line, I don't see Hilton management reacting to the situation anytime soon.
Oct 31, 2011, 9:12 am
#663
Moderator Hilton Honors, Travel News, West, The Suggestion Box, Smoking Lounge & DiningBuzz
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Exactly. And even for some/many/most Diamond members. I have redeemed half a dozen rewards this year and never had any problem getting exactly what I wanted when I wanted.
Oct 31, 2011, 11:03 am
#664
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Certainly I am not speaking for anyone and everyone beside myself. But those properties aren't a real driver for informed persons to deepen participation with HHonors. Better deals are easily had in that area even without earning HHonors points. Even without spending HHonors points on a redemption night.
Which is why Hilton Worldwide/HHonors owners/management will get away with the customer-unfriendly moves -- this one included, much like the customer-unfriendly approaches it has already instituted and re-affirmed time and time again.
Hilton HHonors is to the US hotel "loyalty" program industry as Delta SkyMiles is to the US airline "loyalty" program industry. The customer-unfriendly changes get hammered into place, customers pay the price and are none the better off for it in the main. They have no shame, are dealing with a largely ignorant/apathetic/distracted customer base, and are not in the line of sight of government regulators or media hounds. These kind of customer-unfriendly moves from Hilton end up sticking much like they end up sticking at Delta Air Lines.
Originally Posted by cblaisd
Exactly. And even for some/many/most Diamond members.
Hilton HHonors is to the US hotel "loyalty" program industry as Delta SkyMiles is to the US airline "loyalty" program industry. The customer-unfriendly changes get hammered into place, customers pay the price and are none the better off for it in the main. They have no shame, are dealing with a largely ignorant/apathetic/distracted customer base, and are not in the line of sight of government regulators or media hounds. These kind of customer-unfriendly moves from Hilton end up sticking much like they end up sticking at Delta Air Lines.
Oct 31, 2011, 11:54 am
#665
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,618
When the airlines went through their latest round of FFP bashing, I just walked away from all concentrated efforts at elite. Now, I only search for the best deal and if I get to elite, then fine.
That means no MRs; no out-of-the-way itineraries when there is a competitively priced nonstop; no jumping through hoops. I can usually get a decent deal on premium travel when I want, where I want.
The same has taken hold for hotel programs as well. There is no reason to stay loyal to a brand family if you are not getting what you want. If there is a decent deal, I jump on it; otherwise, no mattress runs, no out-of-the-way properties, no paying a premium for a "preferred" chain.
In short, earn and burn, minimize travel stresses, and save some $$ while you are at it.
That means no MRs; no out-of-the-way itineraries when there is a competitively priced nonstop; no jumping through hoops. I can usually get a decent deal on premium travel when I want, where I want.
The same has taken hold for hotel programs as well. There is no reason to stay loyal to a brand family if you are not getting what you want. If there is a decent deal, I jump on it; otherwise, no mattress runs, no out-of-the-way properties, no paying a premium for a "preferred" chain.
In short, earn and burn, minimize travel stresses, and save some $$ while you are at it.
Oct 31, 2011, 12:08 pm
#666
Moderator Hilton Honors, Travel News, West, The Suggestion Box, Smoking Lounge & DiningBuzz
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Generally, I am able to get what I want, as uninformed and ignorant as I am.
Oct 31, 2011, 1:50 pm
#667
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Nov 1, 2011, 8:56 am
#668
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Western North Carolina
Programs: HH Diamond,Ambassador Club,Delta FF,USAIR FF
Posts: 237
Interesting - now for any date for Bora Bora or Moorea - you get an x- this date is not available for guest check in. standard or premium.
On the front screen - it says " may be available" - not to get my hopes up too high, but maybe they are working on the " IT glitch"
On the front screen - it says " may be available" - not to get my hopes up too high, but maybe they are working on the " IT glitch"
Nov 1, 2011, 9:15 am
#670
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This change has hit some of the most highly desired redemption properties in the Hilton group. That is what matters as redeeming points for a HGI in the rust belt, non-major cities of PA isn't a great driver for program participation.
The "Diamond Force" benefit was gutted as part and parcel of this "premium room reward thing.
Hilton isn't Netflix or Bank of America, and there is no great customer-friendly lesson that Hilton Worldwide/HHonors management are going to learn anytime soon from this situation. Over the course of the past ten years, this management team and its new owners have come to reaffirm their m.o. that gutting the value proposition of the program points for customers hasn't created any great financial difficulty for them or their affiliated properties that would arise from chasing off customers.
[Netflix and Bank of America didn't learn any painful lessons from customers voting with their wallets; they learned painful lessons initiated by customers publicly embarrassing them for their customer-unfriendly ways. Losing money was the result of those companies being publicly embarrassed online and oflline.]
The "Diamond Force" benefit was gutted as part and parcel of this "premium room reward thing.
Hilton isn't Netflix or Bank of America, and there is no great customer-friendly lesson that Hilton Worldwide/HHonors management are going to learn anytime soon from this situation. Over the course of the past ten years, this management team and its new owners have come to reaffirm their m.o. that gutting the value proposition of the program points for customers hasn't created any great financial difficulty for them or their affiliated properties that would arise from chasing off customers.
[Netflix and Bank of America didn't learn any painful lessons from customers voting with their wallets; they learned painful lessons initiated by customers publicly embarrassing them for their customer-unfriendly ways. Losing money was the result of those companies being publicly embarrassed online and oflline.]
Fox News is more on the point than GuWonder in 99% of his posts...
Nov 1, 2011, 9:36 am
#671
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Hilton HHonors is to the US hotel "loyalty" program industry as Delta SkyMiles is to the US airline "loyalty" program industry. The customer-unfriendly changes get hammered into place, customers pay the price and are none the better off for it in the main. They have no shame, are dealing with a largely ignorant/apathetic/distracted customer base, and are not in the line of sight of government regulators or media hounds. These kind of customer-unfriendly moves from Hilton end up sticking much like they end up sticking at Delta Air Lines.
Anderson is one of the few airline managers in the US, who knows how to run an airline (mostly because KLM told him how to run one and after quite some years of learning, he was able to take it to the next level on an even bigger scale. Unfortunately, dealing with Air France is subject to far more obstacles in comparison to the very result-oriented approach of KLM in the 1990's)
So only because some posters on FT ( who were very good gaming the system ) lost out in the process of some changes ( mostly limited to some resorts in French Polynesia ), it does not mean that those programs are bound for ultimate failure now.
As pointed out numerous times by myself already, most members will appreciate the changes and as also pointed out by some other posters, your continuous claims that HHonors is playing games with customers turned out to be plain wrong. Some properties changed their game plan and aside from that, nothing really changed to the worst. Hilton does not get their IT straight, which given the complexity of such systems is not surprising, however over the course of some weeks now, is starting to become pathetic.
On a related side note, I hope you understand that this is a business after all and that both hotel chains and hotel operators have no interest whatsoever ( same with Delta
) to lose customers in a very very challenging marketing environment ( although for some US cities, the outlook for 2012 is actually quite positive ) And do you really believe that those changes are not pre-tested first, before they make it to the market. And do you really believe that idio** are running the show at Delta, Hilton, Air Canada or Lufthansa ?
Nov 1, 2011, 10:03 am
#672
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Programs: UA 1K MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, Accor Silver, Marriott Gold, CAM Card
Posts: 392
I'm puzzled why you state that devaluation affects only a couple of hotels in French Polynesia. Have you been following the thread? Have you tried to do some test rewards bookings at other desirable properties (say, Paris, Hong Kong, various locations in Italy, elsewhere)?
The lack of standard rooms rewards availability at various times (high season, etc.) are obvious. This is at variance with the programs T&Cs. My recent certificate clearly states "Hotel Rewards are not subject to capacity controls". This is no longer true.
Why would anyone appreciate the changes in the program? Golds and Diamonds (that's most of the folks who have enough points to redeem for award stays) already generally get upgraded. I always have. Why would I want to pay or fork out more points for the privilege?
The lack of standard rooms rewards availability at various times (high season, etc.) are obvious. This is at variance with the programs T&Cs. My recent certificate clearly states "Hotel Rewards are not subject to capacity controls". This is no longer true.
Why would anyone appreciate the changes in the program? Golds and Diamonds (that's most of the folks who have enough points to redeem for award stays) already generally get upgraded. I always have. Why would I want to pay or fork out more points for the privilege?
Nov 1, 2011, 10:13 am
#673
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,784
[I want to mention the problem is not limited to the few properties totally don't have standard rooms available...]
HHonors is becoming a joke. The availability of standard room seems becoming less and less and the point ratio for the "premium room" is ridiculous.
One example, Conrad Hong Kong, late November one night stay:
- standard room (King Superior room) HKD$3950/50,000 points/25,000+HKD$661
- premium room (King Peak View room) HKD$4250/172,339 points
For less than US$50 to book a room that is one category higher will cost the extra 122,339 points. This is so out of proportion by looking at the "Points and Money" stay where HKD$661 is in lieu of 25,000 points (about US$85 for 25,000 points)... This is major devaluation!
There is no standard room available for the night I want, so I move my stay to W Hong Kong instead. The same thing happened over and over recently. I have not made Gold in HHonor program this year and don't plan to if things stay this way.
HHonors is becoming a joke. The availability of standard room seems becoming less and less and the point ratio for the "premium room" is ridiculous.
One example, Conrad Hong Kong, late November one night stay:
- standard room (King Superior room) HKD$3950/50,000 points/25,000+HKD$661
- premium room (King Peak View room) HKD$4250/172,339 points
For less than US$50 to book a room that is one category higher will cost the extra 122,339 points. This is so out of proportion by looking at the "Points and Money" stay where HKD$661 is in lieu of 25,000 points (about US$85 for 25,000 points)... This is major devaluation!
There is no standard room available for the night I want, so I move my stay to W Hong Kong instead. The same thing happened over and over recently. I have not made Gold in HHonor program this year and don't plan to if things stay this way.
I am thinking of switching to Marriott if they don't get rid of this premium reward thing. It is a matter of time when every Hilton will offer 2 standard rooms and the rest would be premium high floor rooms, premium away from elevator rooms...
Nov 1, 2011, 10:22 am
#675
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Aside from your ridiculous claim that financial incentives for HHonors management members are directly linked to this 'SkyMiles like robbery', please stop postulating this nonsense.
On a related side note, I hope you understand that this is a business after all and that both hotel chains and hotel operators have no interest whatsoever ( same with Delta ) to lose customers in a very very challenging marketing environment ( although for some US cities, the outlook for 2012 is actually quite positive )
And do you really believe that those changes are not pre-tested first, before they make it to the market. And do you really believe that idio** are running the show at Delta, Hilton, Air Canada or Lufthansa ?
On a related side note, I hope you understand that this is a business after all and that both hotel chains and hotel operators have no interest whatsoever ( same with Delta
) to lose customers in a very very challenging marketing environment ( although for some US cities, the outlook for 2012 is actually quite positive ) And do you really believe that those changes are not pre-tested first, before they make it to the market. And do you really believe that idio** are running the show at Delta, Hilton, Air Canada or Lufthansa ?
With the recent devaluation, the value simply isn't there anymore. I would hate to be a "road warrior" and have millions of HH points (saving for staying at special places such as FP, Maldives, etc) and having to pay multiple times more points than before Oct 3. Very little advance notice, if any.
Bottom line: We have the right to give business where value is. Hilton just lost a bunch of business from us. Glad I found out before doing the transfers & CC signups. With this recent devaluation, no Hilton for us. (unless we end up with a Hilton by bidding on PL and saving 60%+ off retail).