Hertz selling 1/3 of its EV fleet

Old Jan 20, 2024, 12:52 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
They subscribe to the battery service and swap it out instead of charging.
For most US EV owners, such a system completely misses the point. That is not how we use our cars and would not be a benefit to us.
That's correct. It would be like you own the part of the car, but not whole of it.

Originally Posted by LarryJ
The requirement to return the car with the same SoC as when it was rented is following the gas station model for rental refueling. It only costs a few dollars to charge an EV when you're paying electric rates. The top-up should be included in the rental and should be done on the rental lot between rentals.
Hertz could easily avoid the problem by including moderate charging price, like $15-$20 as a rental cost regardless of on what state of charge the car is returned.

Originally Posted by Firstboss
You donít even buy or own a battery: you pay to use it.
Nice. Add this to all existing '...as a service'. At the end - you don't own anything, you subscribe to it, enjoy your life as a service.

F this.

Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Jan 26, 2024 at 5:01 pm Reason: consecutive posts merged
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Old Jan 20, 2024, 1:58 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by Firstboss
Think of it differently: you donít replace it once in a while, but almost every time instead of charging. You donít even buy or own a battery: you pay to use it.
As for quality / capacity, the service provider can easily diagnose every battery automatically and take it out of circulation as soon as it fails the test.
I see the benefit of it but implementation will be messy.

1. To be successful, the battery has to be standard for each n every car. I doubt every manufacturer want that.

2. If point 1 is not fulfilled, u have to be the market leader to justify putting plenty of battery replacement station. It has to be full automation process, otherwise you will have to hire plenty of worker to do that replacement.

3. It will be a hard sale for people lives more than 30 minutes from the nearest battery changing station to sign up for this.

Imho, this battery changing is good for smaller battery in the city area (moped/motorcycle). Check gogoro - a taiwanese company who do this model on moped n has been expanding to southeast asia n india.
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Old Jan 20, 2024, 5:57 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by TerryK
I don't know what the normal cycle time is. I have experienced when cars were taken to car wash then straight to next customer. It was like 15 minutes minimum cycle time. Level 2 charger can take 10 hours to charge up from 20%.
My home charger, charging at 48A, will take my Model 3 LR from 0% to 100% in less than 8 hours. Hertz won't have to charge from 0% to 100%, though. Anything over 60% at time of rental would be reasonable and most cars aren't going to come in near 0%. Generally, when I get home and plug in, it takes less than 2 hours to charge back to 80%.

I think an average of 3 hours of charging between rentals will work for most returns. There will be some that need longer, and many that need less. You can charge extra if returned below 20%. I think that would be reasonable and would not be a burden on the renter.

The problem with having to return with a SoC at least equal to what you had when you picked up the car is that if the car was at a high SoC then your recharge time is going to be excessive because, when fast charging, the charge rate tapers off significantly after 80% SoC. A fast charge from near-zero to over 20% would take only a few minutes for the renter. You can do 10% to 80% in about the same amount of time that it would take to go from 80% to 100%.

Originally Posted by invisible
That's correct. It would be like you own the part of the car, but not whole of it.
Right. That's what they're doing in China and Europe. Wouldn't work for most US EV owners who charge at home. We don't want to go to a station to swap the battery every time we need a charge. That would be very inconvenient and, since you have to subscribe, it won't make sense to charge at home.


Hertz could easily avoid the problem by including moderate charging price, like $15-$20 as a rental cost regardless of on what state of charge the car is returned.
Yeah, that would be good. It's $35 now, which is too high in my opinion. I'd still take that $35 option when renting from Hertz, though.
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Old Jan 21, 2024, 2:47 pm
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Originally Posted by Taikucing
Nope, that's just you stretching your argument to present ev on the decline when the graphics says otherwise. What a joke indeed.

Next time when you post, start by saying 'I am an EV rejecter and here's why'. It will save a lot of time instead of stretching an article to fit your view.
I did not say EVs were on the decline. I said they will never be more than a niche product. Only 22% of Americans are even considering one. That's a niche product.
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Old Jan 21, 2024, 7:23 pm
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Originally Posted by m907
I did not say EVs were on the decline. I said they will never be more than a niche product. Only 22% of Americans are even considering one. That's a niche product.
What a joke is making a proclamation like this when the graphics is still going up. Lol
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Old Jan 22, 2024, 9:04 am
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Originally Posted by m907
I did not say EVs were on the decline. I said they will never be more than a niche product. Only 22% of Americans are even considering one. That's a niche product.
Yet the Tesla Model Y was the best selling car in the world in 2023, taking over the top spot from the Toyota Corolla.

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/28...world-in-2023/
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Old Jan 22, 2024, 6:25 pm
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
Yet the Tesla Model Y was the best selling car in the world in 2023, taking over the top spot from the Toyota Corolla.

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/28...world-in-2023/
2/3 of these numbers were outside of the US.

US statisitics

https://www.motor1.com/features/7038...ling-cars-2023

Best Selling Cars 2023

  1. Ford F-Series: 750,789 Units
  2. Chevrolet Silverado: 555,148 Units
  3. Ram Pickup: 444,926 Units
  4. Toyota RAV4: 434,943 Units
  5. Tesla Model Y: 403,897 Units (est.)
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Old Jan 22, 2024, 7:27 pm
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Originally Posted by invisible
2/3 of these numbers were outside of the US.
Yes, the US trails many areas of the world in EV adoption. Not sure how that changes my point.
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Old Jan 23, 2024, 6:55 am
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Originally Posted by invisible
2/3 of these numbers were outside of the US.

US statisitics

https://www.motor1.com/features/7038...ling-cars-2023

Best Selling Cars 2023

  1. Ford F-Series: 750,789 Units
  2. Chevrolet Silverado: 555,148 Units
  3. Ram Pickup: 444,926 Units
  4. Toyota RAV4: 434,943 Units
  5. Tesla Model Y: 403,897 Units (est.)
Imho, itís impressive that tesla y with its build quality n price is able to be the top 5 selling cars in US.
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Old Jan 23, 2024, 9:20 am
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Originally Posted by Taikucing
Imho, itís impressive that tesla y with its build quality n price is able to be the top 5 selling cars in US.
This statement can be interpreted both ways.

BTW, Silverado, RAM and F-series pickups all of them pricing is higher than Model Y.
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Old Jan 24, 2024, 10:01 am
  #71  
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Originally Posted by m907
I did not say EVs were on the decline. I said they will never be more than a niche product. Only 22% of Americans are even considering one. That's a niche product.
I'll never say never, but I do agree that the tech has to advance or change quite a bit for mass adoption in the U.S.
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Old Jan 24, 2024, 10:16 am
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Originally Posted by pinniped
I'll never say never, but I do agree that the tech has to advance or change quite a bit for mass adoption in the U.S.
I'd love to see some numbers about people who went EV and then went back. I'll bet they're pretty small. Like any new technology, after the eager adopters, the next group can be trepidatious, but once they go for it, they might find it's really no big deal and has plenty of advantages.

Frankly, just driving an ICE car after driving an EV feels like you're back in the jerky stone-age of automobiles. We have one of each and I can't believe how annoying it is to drive our ICE car - which is the last either of us will take, so it's almost never used at this point. And it's a decently nice German sedan.
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Old Jan 24, 2024, 11:11 am
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An EV is convenient for about half of my rentals and, anecdotally, there frequently isn't an EV option for me to choose from in the Pres Circle area when I want one. The Pres Circle area is, however, frequently jammed with gas guzzler SUVs that Hertz presumably couldn't upcharge for. That would seem to indicate that customer preference isn't the problem, but that's obviously not the same thing as Hertz's profitability on a given vehicle type.

I think the $35 electricity refuel option feels like a decent value. There's downtime for the car while they're re-charging it and it doesn't feel like a total scam like the Fuel Purchase Option.
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Old Jan 24, 2024, 8:43 pm
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Originally Posted by josephstern
I'd love to see some numbers about people who went EV and then went back. I'll bet they're pretty small. Like any new technology, after the eager adopters, the next group can be trepidatious, but once they go for it, they might find it's really no big deal and has plenty of advantages.
Speak for yourself. I'd gladly throw my iPhone into the river if BlackBerry reentered the handset business.

Frankly, just driving an ICE car after driving an EV feels like you're back in the jerky stone-age of automobiles. We have one of each and I can't believe how annoying it is to drive our ICE car - which is the last either of us will take, so it's almost never used at this point. And it's a decently nice German sedan.
Speak for yourself again. I cannot express how great it feels to get back into my decently nice German coupe and go for a spirited drive after a week of tooling around in a crap rental car.

Originally Posted by Check
An EV is convenient for about half of my rentals and, anecdotally, there frequently isn't an EV option for me to choose from in the Pres Circle area when I want one. The Pres Circle area is, however, frequently jammed with gas guzzler SUVs that Hertz presumably couldn't upcharge for.
An EV is the only thing worse than an SUV! But Hertz TPA sounds like just the place for you - a veritable sea of Polestars and Teslas waiting for PC and 5* renters.
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Old Jan 25, 2024, 1:57 am
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
Yet the Tesla Model Y was the best selling car in the world in 2023, taking over the top spot from the Toyota Corolla.

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/28...world-in-2023/
And? What's your point? The Yankees are the most popular team in baseball, but that doesn't mean everyone wants to become or will eventually become Yankees fans.
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